Boards›Gameplay

MF's R needs nerfs and Caitlyn needs buffs

chipndip1··6 votes·977 views

MF's R:

"Just walk out of it"

The problem is that it shreds so damn fast now that you don't GET to walk out of it. The bonus damage was fine. The move getting critical hits was probably the tipping point. Either reduce its damage (which I'm hesitant on because MF has gone so long with a shitty ult until now) or remove the crits.

Caitlyn:

"Nah man, she's really good. You don't know what you're mi-"

Yea, no. Unlike Poppy, who I admit I probably didn't have the proper grounds to speak on, Caitlyn was my secondary adc after Jinx. She doesn't do enough damage in comparison to Draven, Lucian, and MF to be considered a proper lane bully anymore. To boot, she's STILL weak during the late game, and only strong during the mid game if she got fed, which is harder now because she's not a strong lane bully anymore. She needs some buffs, but WHAT needs buffing...I'm not positive on. Maybe her Q should do more damage if it doesn't hit anyone first? Maybe her ult should get more reward for hitting the right person since it's so hard to do during team fights anyway? Maybe she needs more natural ad/as? As she is right now, she's one of the worst adc picks in all elos. In Plat+, she only surpasses Urgot. Even Kog'Maw has her beat. To be fair, though, Kog has a very small play rate and still has shitty win rates, so maybe he needs more help than Caitlyn.

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/adc/platinum/by-winrate

26 Comments

Prospector Pete1 votes

"Maybe her Q should do more damage if it doesn't hit anyone first"

Ok, lets make it deal more damage if it misses.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x7y35zjx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-10T19:06:40.101+0000)

"Maybe her Q should do more damage if it doesn't hit anyone first"

Ok, lets make it deal more damage if it misses.

Like the "first" doesn't imply that it hit someone eventually.

Bonipherus1 votes

MF's R is fine. It's her E that needs its range reduced and slow adjusted so you cant get caught far away and instantly deleted if you don't have flash up on an immobile champ.

Though Cait does feel underwhelming because she doesn't do much damage outside of her headshots. And when you get someone in her traps it feels more like they made a mistake rather than you did something right.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

MF's R is fine. It's her E that needs its range reduced and slow adjusted so you cant get caught far away and instantly deleted if you don't have flash up on an immobile champ.

Though Cait does feel underwhelming because she doesn't do much damage outside of her headshots. And when you get someone in her traps it feels more like they made a mistake rather than you did something right.

MF's R is NOT fine. There's counter-play to it, but it does so much damage that you don't GET to do the thing you're supposed to do: walk out of it. She doesn't even have to be fed and she can straight obliterate half a team with that thing. She does too much damage on that move, and nerfing her E is just beating around the bush. Hell, they already nerfed her E before anyway, and she's still the top adc of the game by a huge margin. (22% play rate/55% win rate Plat+).

All points agreed on Caitlyn, though.

Bonipherus1 votes

MF's R NEEDS to deal lots of damage. She's a marksman and that ultimate makes her stand still for a long time; something you really, really, really do not want to do as an adc. Because of these things it has to deal crazy damage to justify the extreme weaknesses of using it. She was basically seen as garbage when the ult didn't do enough damage and in guides people said you basically shouldn't even really use it except in a few situations. She's also much weaker at taking down tanks and in 1v1 duels because she won't be able to use her passive and has really low natural ad.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

MF's R NEEDS to deal lots of damage. She's a marksman and that ultimate makes her stand still for a long time; something you really, really, really do not want to do as an adc.

Still...but doing insane amounts of damage that wipes people in like...1.5 seconds. If this were a 1v1 kind of game, I'd say "fine", but it's 5v5. She can have forms of cc and peel within her team, and although her ult should hit decently hard, it hits TOO hard atm.

Because of these things it has to deal crazy damage to justify the extreme weaknesses of using it.

The move WAS weak. It's too strong atm. It also crits. Cait needs to stand still to ult and her ult is one of the worst adc ults I can think of.

She was basically seen as garbage when the ult didn't do enough damage and in guides people said you basically shouldn't even really use it except in a few situations. She's also much weaker at taking down tanks and in 1v1 duels because she won't be able to use her passive and has really low natural ad.

If she was that weak against tanks, she wouldn't be at a 55% win rate at a +20% play rate in Plat+ play. If ANYONE called Vayne or Jinx cancer before, it's high time to realize the hypocrisy now.

tommyagun1 votes

The slow mf's w is the reall killer not her ult which is fine because she cant move or if she takes damage it stops. Now cait could use a buff on her ult and better ad scaling on her whole kit. Since she is a sniper shouldn't be given an as buff but an ad buff instead. Make her w do damage like it did before. I wish she was more like Sniper from Dota 2, who actually was a sniper.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

The slow mf's w is the reall killer not her ult which is fine because she cant move or if she takes damage it stops. Now cait could use a buff on her ult and better ad scaling on her whole kit. Since she is a sniper shouldn't be given an as buff but an ad buff instead. Make her w do damage like it did before. I wish she was more like Sniper from Dota 2, who actually was a sniper.

MF's E is a laning hazard, but she's a lane bully. The problem is that she can easily sweep up 2-3 kills in the blink of an eye off of her high damage ult that can crit. Like...why can it crit?

tommyagun1 votes

{quoted}

MF's E is a laning hazard, but she's a lane bully. The problem is that she can easily sweep up 2-3 kills in the blink of an eye off of her high damage ult that can crit. Like...why can it crit?

i realized I mistyped thank you for pointing it out. the problem is the slow on e andnot her ult. before preseason her ult was pretty bad and lacked damage, now it is at where her ult should be. she ie meant to dominate early game and if she does this right she will rekt the whole game, but she can be shut down pretty easy to. remember she is an immobile adc.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

i realized I mistyped thank you for pointing it out. the problem is the slow on e andnot her ult. before preseason her ult was pretty bad and lacked damage, now it is at where her ult should be. she ie meant to dominate early game and if she does this right she will rekt the whole game, but she can be shut down pretty easy to. remember she is an immobile adc.

You don't get it.

Riot made it so that MF, even though she's still a lane bully, synergizes for high damage in team fights. Even if you shut her down early, her ult still scales into team fights. She's a lane bully with a late game ult. They need to either tone down the ult's damage or start shifting her power to late game, which is impossible given her kit.

Thus, nerf her ult's insane damage.

Z Statistic1 votes

Well, no, it's entirely possible. Reducing the base damage/scaling of early ranks in Q as well as lowering the early scaling on her passive would make her laning less powerful since it's extremely easy for me to chunk 1/3 of someone's health at lvl 1 if they misstep for a second.

But what's wrong with someone who has a strong laning and a good late game ult? She's extremely easy to dive mid and late game. Even the tank can do it to make sure she can't ult. It doesn't have to be Rengar or Zed.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Menea Calais,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x7y35zjx,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-11T02:02:06.468+0000)

But what's wrong with someone who has a strong laning and a good late game ult?

Because, unlike the other lane bully champs, MF can scale in and avoid falling off. Her lane is already strong, and her ult keeps her relevant throughout the game. If she does bad in lane, she just has to fish for kills and assists with ult until she's back in the game. She can save her game better than late game carries like Jinx and Vayne while being stronger than them in lane. It's literally ass-backwards logic.

Z Statistic1 votes

You mean like Katarina?

Her ult roots her in place for 3 seconds. It better be a game changer.

tommyagun1 votes

Thus, nerf her ult's insane damage.

NO you don't get it, her ult is fine where it is. The only they should do to it is make the projectiles block able. I don't think you remember how mf was before preseason where her ult was just a joke. Lucian has the same ult but he can move and mf cant.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

NO you don't get it, her ult is fine where it is. The only they should do to it is make the projectiles block able. I don't think you remember how mf was before preseason where her ult was just a joke. Lucian has the same ult but he can move and mf cant.

Just because her ult was bad doesn't mean it justifies making it TOO good. It was buffed in damage multiple times before. Now it's over-tuned, and makes it so she carries late-game carry power while being an early game lane bully. How does that even make sense to you?

tommyagun1 votes

{quoted}

Just because her ult was bad doesn't mean it justifies making it TOO good. It was buffed in damage multiple times before. Now it's over-tuned, and makes it so she carries late-game carry power while being an early game lane bully. How does that even make sense to you?

How does kayle's ult make sense or tryn's ult. Kayle's ult is the best in game bec it can make anyone on her team unkillable for 6 seconds, use that ult on an adc and win. There are other champs that have stronger ults than mf. Yes, mf is strong but she does have good amount of counter to mf. She is immobile which makes her easy to gank. Assassins can burst her in a second or two. Lastly, don't teamfight her and just split push. There are a number of ways to deal with her, it is not like she is unkillable or unbeatable.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

How does kayle's ult make sense or tryn's ult. Kayle's ult is the best in game bec it can make anyone on her team unkillable for 6 seconds, use that ult on an adc and win. There are other champs that have stronger ults than mf. Yes, mf is strong but she does have good amount of counter to mf. She is immobile which makes her easy to gank. Assassins can burst her in a second or two. Lastly, don't teamfight her and just split push. There are a number of ways to deal with her, it is not like she is unkillable or unbeatable.

Kayle's ult makes sense because she's weak early and carries no hard cc as a champ that's secondarily a support, thus granting invincibility from damage (and not cc) is the least she could do as a support outside of healing people. Trynd is a brain-dead split-pusher that needs to be reworked already and we all know this. Also, Kayle's ult IS NOT the best in the game, and is not 6 seconds long. At max rank, it's 3 seconds.

The point isn't that MF's ult is the absolute best in the game. The point is that it's too strong in success cases. Sure, if you need a global snipe, you need Jinx or Ezreal. If you need health and a nuke, you need Ekko. If you need to stall, you need Bard. Different ults call for different things, but that doesn't mean Jinx can do 75% of my health from the fountain. MF's success cases are too good. Riot already knows she does too much damage, and if nerfing her E and passive doesn't cool her 55% win rate and 20%+ pick rate in all elos, I imagine her ult's next up on the chopping block.

tommyagun1 votes

You know zed has a higher win rate but they wont nerf him. Yes, Jinx can actually one shot you with her ult even at full health. When mf uses her ult just use cc to cancel her ult. The counter play to mf is plenty, but not a lot of people bother to figure this out, usually at lower elos. Mf is doing what she was created to do in this game bully early and do awesome in teamfights. She was designed for these two things. A good Lucian player can beat a good mf player. They both has nearly the same ult except that Lucian can move and mf cant move. Which make mf very open to cc or being burst when she starts her ult.

Hex the FenFen1 votes

The biggest thing I wish they would do with Caitlyn is make it so her ult caused on-hit effects like Headshot and the such. If her ult could utilized Headshot it would give her some more early game power and more people would be scared to block the ult for teammates. I mean...come on....it is the final shot, the perfect shot, why not let it use her passive too?

Bondage Bunnyboy1 votes

They need to nerf her E and possibly her Q instead of her ult. Maybe even her base stats, to be honest. If they nerf her ult, though, then we'll be back where we started, when you ONLY used that ult to snipe someone at 10% health, and she practically only had 3 abilities.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ravenborn Evaine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x7y35zjx,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-01-11T02:10:12.092+0000)

They need to nerf her E and possibly her Q instead of her ult. Maybe even her base stats, to be honest. If they nerf her ult, though, then we'll be back where we started, when you ONLY used that ult to snipe someone at 10% health, and she practically only had 3 abilities.

Just because you can nerf the ult doesn't mean it has to revert to the way it was before. They buffed the ult multiple times by now.

Stellafreyja1 votes

MF currently has a nerf on the PBE that lowers the damage of her E and is lowering the damage of Lovetap early (doing 50% additional damage instead of 60%).

Caitlyn, I feel should have the nerfs to her net reverted. That would be a great start.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

If people say that it's easy to interrupt Katarina 's ult, then what difference does MissFortune make?

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

If people say that it's easy to interrupt Katarina 's ult, then what difference does MissFortune make?

Kat has to put herself pretty damn close to people.

MF can let it rip from almost a lane away.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

The ult needs a brief delay so you can actually get out of it. As of right now, even if you get out of it as soon as possible, you're still taking three waves of damage.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x7y35zjx,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-01-11T14:38:55.366+0000)

The ult needs a brief delay so you can actually get out of it. As of right now, even if you get out of it as soon as possible, you're still taking three waves of damage.

That's basically the issue I've been trying to get at. Due to the huge range it has, it isn't that comparable to Kat's ult. Kat has to literally put herself in the middle of the enemy team and hope she doesn't get moved or stunned. MF can just delete everything in a lane from the opposite end of it, and you don't get that much time to "just walk out of it" or "just walk up and hit her". Her disgustingly high win rate explains it all. She just does way too much damage on that thing.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by chipndip1

So lemme get this straight...again...
Gameplay253 comments
185
votes
Assassins shouldn't be able to just 1v2 freely. Stop asking for it.
Gameplay211 comments
170
votes
It's kind of bullshit that Ryze gets this much attention
Gameplay178 comments
145
votes
I seriously meant "Tell people to upgrade their trinket"...
Gameplay50 comments
144
votes
If you frame champ balance like this, stop talking about champ balance
Gameplay64 comments
122
votes
Honestly: "Scaling into being unstoppable" isn't an acceptable game play niche
Gameplay130 comments
122
votes