If you frame champ balance like this, stop talking about champ balance

chipndip1·Nov 29, 2017·122 votes·4,257 views

Q: It's a Morgana Q that hits 2 people

W: It's a Sona W that shields everyone twice

E: It's a Morgana W that does all of its damage at one time

R: It's an Ezreal ult that doesn't reduce in damage for hitting 5382 minions and doesn't go from fountain to fountain

Yeah, these make the foundation of the most bullshit posts I see on these boards. If you frame your argument like this, politely log off the forums until you have a better argument.

64 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonNov 29, 201750 votes

Tbh, I want to see every champion described like this. This would be awesome.

chipndip1Nov 29, 201769 votes

{quoted}

Tbh, I want to see every champion described like this. This would be awesome.

Gawwwwleeeee that's a project. If I could get some upvotes for that endeavor, maybe I'll something that ridiculous...

...as satire, though.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 29, 201728 votes

slides case with shiny up arrow in it towards you

I gotchu fam.

AeszarckNov 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Tbh, I want to see every champion described like this. This would be awesome.

I feel like you'd need a baseline Champion that you purport as a pillar of originality and balance to compare everyone to, because if you're just choosing random Champions to compare to then you don't really show anything off. Maybe you'd need a few baseline Champions, just because it's hard to try and describe some of our weirder Champions just using one kit.

FlantNov 30, 20174 votes

Could just use the 450 IP BE champ roster, they're generally pretty simple and would cover a reasonably-sized base.

Trias000Nov 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Tbh, I want to see every champion described like this. This would be awesome.

Zoe Q: Old Nidalee's Q that takes 3/4 of your hp when it hits you from enough range. W: Free summoner spells + Ahri's W! WTF?! E: Morgana's Q with semi-global range. R: LeBlanc's W with shorter cooldown.

notice me Sin piNov 30, 20171 votes

it's only 1 but i'll leave it here: Warwick P: patch 7.18 version of item 3504 passive on a permanent duration, except it only scales stronger and it can be tripled

Q: a dash that also gives displacement immunity along with lifesteal of a late game Nasus Q. And also with the added bonus of doing a melee range Ezreal Q along the way.

W: a permanent MissFortune W except movement speed doesnt even get reduced from taking damage

E: it's a freaking Alistar ult with a cooldown of a basic ability on top of Fiddlesticks Q

R: Tryndamere dash with damage&CC of Malzahar ult combined with lifesteal of Nasus

SpoofghoulNov 30, 20171 votes

try Sion

Z3SleeperDec 1, 20171 votes

Nunu

Q: is basically old AP Yi meditate, completely bonkers healing but it's all at once instead of over time

W: Basically Sivir ult on essentially no cooldown

E: Yknow Veigar ult? Well that's basically Nunu E on a low cooldown AND it slows attack speed

R: Oneshots everyone, 0 counterplay.

Velzard of KozNov 29, 201723 votes

But, to be honest, Lux is - humourly speaking - Morgana but double. Roots, but double. Shields, but double. AoE dmg, but... Shit they had to ruin it all. Plz rito buff Lux, make her throws two Es at once.

Cucoo5Nov 29, 201711 votes

make her throws two Es at once.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqdmQkvhfhs&feature=youtu.be&t=44s

GrReaper96Nov 29, 20172 votes

DOUBLE RAINBOW!!!

Daedric EtwahlNov 30, 201714 votes

If I remember correctly... in the old lore, Lux reverse engineered Morg's Dark Binding into her own "superior" Light Binding... so these similarities make sense.

FilDaFunkNov 30, 20172 votes

In her champ spotlight, they mention she has a similar style to morg.

It Hertz When IPNov 30, 20171 votes

Morg has an anti-CC shield. Lux ain't got nothing on that.

flibitydooNov 30, 20176 votes

member when lux's W used to stealth targets hit?

Hello I am BirdNov 30, 20171 votes

I hear shit like this and Twisted Fate's old E and it makes me fear what League was like back before Season 1.

ThefrostyvikingNov 30, 20171 votes

And people say things were better before xD

Ever heard the tale of release Xin zhao as well?

WolfeurNov 30, 20171 votes

The good ol' Win Nao

ThefrostyvikingNov 30, 20171 votes

Xin zhao win nao.

AP xin was also a funny thing, although AP Yi is probably the one that will be remembered x)

WolfeurNov 30, 20171 votes

400% AP ratio on heal

Votable JesterNov 30, 20172 votes

But Morg's ult hits twice where Lux's hits once.

7thHeavenNov 29, 201718 votes

I believe most chamions got same auto attack - right click.

AhmChaNov 29, 201710 votes

Ban all champions, bullshit ability to just walk up to you, click a button and DO DAMAGE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Every champion in this game is horribly designed.

Hello I am BirdNov 30, 20174 votes

@ADCHaters

Monkey D LuffyNov 30, 20171 votes

Tbh this is a fair argument, let's just remove auto attacks. [sg-syndra]

wicekwacekDec 1, 20171 votes

We should remove summoners,like walls are supposed to be walls. Also any spell that is point and click,like fam what can i do???????? And no mana champs.They need nothing to use the two things???????????????

warpenguin555Nov 29, 20175 votes

These people, along with the win rate only people, piss me off more than any body else on the boards.

Yordle XayahNov 30, 20174 votes

98.63% of Posts in The Boards are Salt-Based Nonsense that puts champs on a vacuum and pretend that's how the game works.

Any champion/skill can seem OP if you just word it right...

Q - AOE spell with except there's no traveling time and it's on a 0.5 Coold down you can spam W - AOE slow that also reduces magic resist so you can spam your Q E - Permanent Fiddlesticks Ult with no cast time and that you can just toggle on and off at will R - High Damage spell that will hit every single enemy no matter where they are Passive - When you die, you don't really die and can still cast spells that cost no mana

Karthus

OMG BETTER NERF THIS SUPER BROKEN KIT RITO WTF

WolfeurNov 30, 20173 votes

98.63% of Posts in The Boards are Salt-Based Nonsense

Don't forget that 87% of statistics are completely made up

TeCoolMageNov 30, 20171 votes

The other 13% are taken out of context

FairyfleurNov 30, 20173 votes

b.b...b....but how else am I supposed to make a champion sound op and overloaded!!1!!1!1!???

FeathermaneNov 30, 20173 votes

But that is a persuasive argument. If you can draw a parallel between two champions and show that one is better in any comparison, how can they both be balanced?

AeszarckNov 30, 20177 votes

{quoted}

But that is a persuasive argument. If you can draw a parallel between two champions and show that one is better in any comparison, how can they both be balanced?

Because their kits are not the exact same, and even if one literally had copies of every ability with additional effects, that Champion's ability numbers and base stats could be tuned.

NakedGrannyDec 1, 20171 votes

That's... proof that he had a point.

Your notion that it's just a matter of tweaking numbers is extremely disingenuous and demonstrably incorrect in practice. It's not like Lux or Morgana are new champions. They have had numbers tweaks for years and years at this point.

Morgana being such an ancient champion design, it really shouldn't surprise anyone that her kit just objectively sucks right now.

The only reason she doesn't have a worse win/loss rate than LeBlanc is because she's longer range and has a Black Shield. Absolutely everything else about Morgana is literally a crippling weakness for her team if you picked her insead of any other champion.

WolfeurNov 30, 20171 votes

The problem is that very few people actually go into details. Example:

— A's Q deals twice as much damage as B's Q! Broken! — Yes, But A's Q has a lesser range, a higher CD, a smaller hitbox, a longer cast time and is colliding instead of pass-through. — Yeah, but it deals twice as much damage!

And that is just comparing spell by spell, but there is also the concept of power budget, and most people don't understand that.

KnalxzNov 30, 20173 votes

I don't see how that is entirely wrong. I get that kits have different needs to work but Trundle 's pillar is just a weak version of Anivia 's wall.

And Camille 's Ult, is just a better version of JarvanIV 's.

With 130 champions, the peas will get in the mashed potatoes at some point, I can't fault Rito for that.

JarPoop IVDec 1, 20171 votes

So trundle having a slow on his pillar means nothing? And j4 ultimate doing aoe damage instantly instead of over AAs to ONE GUY means nothing?

KnalxzDec 1, 20171 votes

Why do you need a slow compared to making it so the enemy can't even leave?

Joking aside the point I was making was that certain champions have similar abilities but different kits which doesn't mean that the ability that they use intended purpose isn't superior.

No one uses Trundle's pillar to JUST slow their enemy. They use it to block them off and the slow compliments that. The main goal is to block the enemy off which Aniva's wall does exactly that but better.

In the case of Jarvan and Bei Fong they both use their ults to secure a kill or force a fight. Jarvan's can be used to do this but Camile's ult does it better mainly because no one can escape from it.

I wasn't arguing the supplamented reason, just the main one. That is why I didn't reference Twisted Fate to Shen. Their ults basically do the same thing but the goal is drastically different.

Hopefully this helps you understand my point better. I can see how it can be misunderstood since I said very little.

KarunamonNov 29, 20172 votes

If you get upset about people making comparisons to other champs, when those skills do roughly the same thing, stop talking about champ balance. A root is a root, regardless of the graphics associated with it.

chipndip1Nov 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If you get upset about people making comparisons to other champs, when those skills do roughly the same thing, stop talking about champ balance. A root is a root, regardless of the graphics associated with it.

Because people that try to relate moves to other moves tend to do so to make them sound "op" while disregarding the logic as to why a move works the way it does.

Teridax68Nov 30, 20172 votes

Agreed. Listing a champion's strengths without mentioning their weaknesses or conditions, or comparing them to another champion without bringing up the potential advantages the latter has over the former, makes for a severely incomplete and very obviously biased analysis. It is also one of the most frequently used templates for low-effort upvote farm posts, and I think it continues to be one of the major reasons why Gameplay isn't taken seriously at large. We can do better than that, and many of us do, but as long as we continue to allow ourselves into this facile mode of argumentation, we're not going to be nearly as credible as we can be, or deserve to be.

The EcdysiastNov 30, 20172 votes

To be fair, her ultimate has only its shorter-than-some-basic-abilities windup as a weakness, andcompensates that with a 20 second cooldown and the biggest area of effect of any damaging ability in the game.

DepressedTomokoNov 30, 20172 votes

Soraka:

P - Taliyah passive except it has even more limitations Q - Karthus q with a less delay and a slow W - Nidalee heal except there's no % hp scaling, a way lower cd, and it doesn't suck E - _Tears from LeBlanc, Kassadin, and Viktor players poured into here. _ R - Karthus ultimate if it were to heal, yet instantaneous

Hello I am BirdNov 30, 20172 votes