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Assassins shouldn't be able to just 1v2 freely. Stop asking for it.

chipndip1··170 votes·23,038 views

With all the complaining going on about supports, I find it hard to ignore some...lopsided logic that recurs in the conversation.

Like, assassins complain that they can't assassinate when a support is there, right? But supports are supposed to stop assassinations, and are supposed to not fight people straight up. If we don't want supports to fight well, or wave clear well, so they stick to supporting and saving carries, how can you complain when they do the one thing they're supposed to do? I'm not saying supports "can't be op", but the notion that an assassin should just run in your shit and win what's essentially a 1v2 is fucking ridiculous.

If I'm a support, and I'm doing my job, and you're an assassin, it's my job to watch out for you. Your team should be helping to make an opening for you to pick someone off. Maybe that someone isn't the adc specifically? Maybe it's the enemy mid laner? Maybe it's a low health jungler? Maybe that someone is me? Idk, but the relationship between me and an assassin is literally an inverse relationship: If you're doing your job well when I'm in interaction range of you, I'm doing my job poorly, and if you're getting caught in bubbles or running into shields over and over again, you're doing a shit job of picking targets and openings. That's how I see it. Sure, some champs need addressing with this in mind, and sure, some champs are inherently better or worse at stopping certain types of threats outright, but generally speaking, I think there's other issues that create pain points for the assassin vs. support experience, and just mindlessly blaming the whole role when it only has a few outlier offenders (Janna and Kench are prime examples, as well as Redemption and Locket, Redemption being a bit less so, though) isn't a fair narrative, period.

Just trying to add a dose of sanity to the discussion.

211 Comments

Some Noob Dude32 votes

Assassins shouldn't be able to 1v2 all the time, but supports shouldn't be able to stop it from happening 100% of time either, especially not with just a point and click shield.

chipndip126 votes

Aim for someone else, or wait for the shield to drop onto someone else, or go for the support themselves. Don't be so 1-dimensional. There's more ways to cut this cake than "horizontal".

Like, if I'm laning against Janna as Nami or Sona, I rarely ult before her. It's after, because I know she'll just freely cock-block everyone with it. If she has to pop it to heal or peel something else first, then my shit sticks and it's a free kill or double. If I ult first, she's PROBABLY fucking out of there.

Remember, what you're asking for here is essentially the ability to invalidate an entire other person from the situation, just because "You're an assassin". Think about how lop-sided that is.

Laceration10 votes

Well, currently supports invalidate assassins... It's also not fair to say you need to go in while shields are down, that's almost impossible, 45% cdr is extremely accessible and the shield cool-downs are very short. It's also not fair to say "aim for someone else" when it's your job to kill the adc and your items are balanced around that fact. There's also the flaw in your logic about holding ultimates. Most of the assassin do not have the kind of burst to force out a janna ult without using theirs themselves. Obviously being 6-0 at 13mins will mean you can do that but then is the only way for assassins to be a class is to get extremely fed early? that's not very fair since assassins don't provide anything beside damage. Unlike mages who have powerful utility build in which they can use no matter how far behind they get.

There's a big problem right with assassin itemization which causes them to be extremely useless when behind. This is almost certainly in my opinion because of the rework of Last Whisper and the nerfing of BlackCleaver, mainly LastWhisper though.

Sorry that my points are kind of all over the place, I'm really tired but I could talk more if you want. I just want you to understand, I don't care about being able to 1v2 I care about being able to be a champion If I didn't get ahead during lanephase.

chipndip112 votes

{quoted}

Well, currently supports invalidate assassins... It's also not fair to say you need to go in while shields are down, that's almost impossible, 45% cdr is extremely accessible and the shield cool-downs are very short.

Lets be honest: If a support has 45% cdr, due to how slowly they get gold, the game is either late game, close to it, or they have Transcendence. Also, assassins are mostly an early game class. You're being outscaled in these scenarios, and it's hard to make "huge, swift burst damage" feel fair for the victim opposing party, so it's largely an early game feature when it's included. You aren't meant to easily pull that off all game unless you popped off.

It's also not fair to say "aim for someone else" when it's your job to kill the adc and your items are balanced around that fact. There's also the flaw in your logic about holding ultimates. Most of the assassin do not have the kind of burst to force out a janna ult without using theirs themselves. Obviously being 6-0 at 13mins will mean you can do that but then is the only way for assassins to be a class is to get extremely fed early? that's not very fair since assassins don't provide anything beside damage. Unlike mages who have powerful utility build in which they can use no matter how far behind they get.

You can kill the enemy mage. You can kill the enemy support. If they've been softened up enough, you can even go for straggling front liners. You're job isn't just "kill the marksman". It's "kill the highest priority target you can reach without getting killed". That isn't always gonna be the marksman.

And seeing how you're thinking of this WHOLE scenario as a 1v2 situation, I'm going to stop responding to it here because you clearly don't get that League is a 5v5 game.

There's a big problem right with assassin itemization which causes them to be extremely useless when behind. This is almost certainly in my opinion because of the rework of Last Whisper and the nerfing of BlackCleaver, mainly LastWhisper though.

Assassins are almost always useless when behind. That isn't an itemization issue. That's the nature of early game champs in general.

Sorry that my points are kind of all over the place, I'm really tired but I could talk more if you want. I just want you to understand, I don't care about being able to 1v2 I care about being able to be a champion If I didn't get ahead during lanephase.

You shouldn't play early game champs, then. Some assassins aren't that bad from behind. Fizz and Katarina, for example, are able to be relevant in mid/late game fights even if they did bad in lane. Kayn can just become Rhaast and be some assassin/fighter hybrid to bypass this weakness more blatantly.

However, assuming you didn't feed early, understand that if you insist on jumping into 2 people alone, it's not my fault if you lose a 1v2. It'd be on my head if you succeeded.

Yaśuo Main3 votes

If a support has 45% cdr, due to how slowly they get gold

Did you really just say supports SLOWLY get gold

chipndip16 votes

Yes, slowly, cause I'm not out-cashing anyone. My items are cheaper, but I'm not building up gold like you are. Stop it.

DestructoDave14 votes

{quoted}

Well, currently supports invalidate assassins... It's also not fair to say you need to go in while shields are down, that's almost impossible, 45% cdr is extremely accessible and the shield cool-downs are very short. It's also not fair to say "aim for someone else" when it's your job to kill the adc and your items are balanced around that fact. There's also the flaw in your logic about holding ultimates. Most of the assassin do not have the kind of burst to force out a janna ult without using theirs themselves. Obviously being 6-0 at 13mins will mean you can do that but then is the only way for assassins to be a class is to get extremely fed early? that's not very fair since assassins don't provide anything beside damage. Unlike mages who have powerful utility build in which they can use no matter how far behind they get.

There's a big problem right with assassin itemization which causes them to be extremely useless when behind. This is almost certainly in my opinion because of the rework of Last Whisper and the nerfing of BlackCleaver, mainly LastWhisper though.

Sorry that my points are kind of all over the place, I'm really tired but I could talk more if you want. I just want you to understand, I don't care about being able to 1v2 I care about being able to be a champion If I didn't get ahead during lanephase.

Statistically, Assasins are doing just fine. Thats what make all this crying hilarious, tbh. Fizz is one of the best mid-lane champs you can play at any elo. Shaco/Noc are some of the best JG. Ekko is good. Even Zed, some of the others have healthy 50%+ win-rates.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/silver/by-winrate

This notion that somehow all these assassins are being invalidated in solo Q is a joke. They may not make appearances in pro play, but that does not mean they are actually weak in solo Q. There are a lot of champs that way. Even one of the best solo Q ADCs you can play, MF, never sees pro play.

Are supports strong? Yes they are. But so are Assassins. Just look at some of those assassin's win-rates. Almost all of them are 50%+. Some are even in the top 10. Hell, check different elos. I linked silver just because most people here are bronze-gold.

Laceration2 votes

I can agree statistically they are doing fine but that's only because any elo below d2 makes a ton of mistakes and that's what they punish. if you look at stats for masters+ they don't do as well compared to the rest. I'm not trying to elo shame everyone who isn't high rank i'm just pointing out that most assassins are balanced around punishing mistakes which is why they have decent winrates overall but flunk compared to the rest in high elo.

DestructoDave9 votes

{quoted}

I can agree statistically they are doing fine but that's only because any elo below d2 makes a ton of mistakes and that's what they punish. if you look at stats for masters+ they don't do as well compared to the rest. I'm not trying to elo shame everyone who isn't high rank i'm just pointing out that most assassins are balanced around punishing mistakes which is why they have decent winrates overall but flunk compared to the rest in high elo.

On probuilds.net, Fizz has a 57% win-rate. Zed has a 53% win-rate. Leblanc 54%. This is strictly from pro-level players.

They are not that weak master+. They are weak in pro play and thats it. Solo Q at all levels they are strong. There is a lot more kills in solo Q, a lot more skirmishes and what not, and Assassins thrive in that environment.

And who really cares about that high of elo? 99% of the people complaining here are not anywhere near that elo. Hell, Plat might as well be master tier around here. Even gold. Flunking out in high elo, even though they arent, has no impact on any of hte people crying here where they are strong in their elo.

Laceration1 votes

AP assassins are just better than AD because they have better itemization. AD assassin are only good against people who don't know how to handle them, which is just low elo. The game should be balanced around The Top and those who aren't good enough shouldn't complain. That's what league should be about.

Honestly this community has turned this game into such a casual one now. Compare league in the first 4 and a half seasons to now. It's night and day.

DestructoDave12 votes

{quoted}

AP assassins are just better than AD because they have better itemization. AD assassin are only good against people who don't know how to handle them, which is just low elo. The game should be balanced around The Top and those who aren't good enough shouldn't complain. That's what league should be about.

Honestly this community has turned this game into such a casual one now. Compare league in the first 4 and a half seasons to now. It's night and day.

Meanwhile Talon has the highest win-rate mid Diamond+. Zed has a 51% win-rate Diamond+.

I mean you yourself, have a 65% win-rate on Talon in Master. Hell, your Zed is 60%. You are literally proving the stats right as we speak. I mean how much better do you want your champions to be?

Andevar1 votes

{quoted}

Statistically, Assasins are doing just fine. Thats what make all this crying hilarious, tbh. Fizz is one of the best mid-lane champs you can play at any elo. Shaco/Noc are some of the best JG. Ekko is good. Even Zed, some of the others have healthy 50%+ win-rates.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/silver/by-winrate

This notion that somehow all these assassins are being invalidated in solo Q is a joke. They may not make appearances in pro play, but that does not mean they are actually weak in solo Q. There are a lot of champs that way. Even one of the best solo Q ADCs you can play, MF, never sees pro play.

Are supports strong? Yes they are. But so are Assassins. Just look at some of those assassin's win-rates. Almost all of them are 50%+. Some are even in the top 10. Hell, check different elos. I linked silver just because most people here are bronze-gold.

Also gotta keep in mind that most people that play assassin champs are dedicated OTP's, hence the high win-rate.

DestructoDave10 votes

{quoted}

Also gotta keep in mind that most people that play assassin champs are dedicated OTP's, hence the high win-rate.

You guys have an awful lot of excuses as to why the stats don't line up with your narratives.

The Bearded Bard4 votes

Aim for someone else isn't a fantastic argument because assassins are supposed to search for squishy damage dealers.

"Quick, the enemy marksmen has too much support, but Malphite is looking vulnerable!" - No assassin ever

ChaddyFantome4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nE8AJolA,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-04-27T02:23:43.779+0000)

Aim for someone else isn't a fantastic argument because assassins are supposed to search for squishy damage dealers.

"Quick, the enemy marksmen has too much support, but Malphite is looking vulnerable!" - No assassin ever

kill the mid laner? kill the Support? Kill the squishy jungler? Kill the opposing enemy assassin when they jump YOUR ADC?

chipndip14 votes

Why is someone else immediately the top lane tank and not the mid lane mage or the enchanter support?

2Charmnot2Charm3 votes

or go for the support themselves.

Careful, telling people here to go for the support themselves is a no no apparently.

9 X27 votes

{quoted}

Assassins shouldn't be able to 1v2 all the time, but supports shouldn't be able to stop it from happening 100% of time either, especially not with just a point and click shield.

It's a 1v2. If you're on equal ground against a "traditional" support paired with an ADC you shouldn't be able to make that kill barring a significant outplay on your end. Considering the potential for an outplay in such a scenario is undoubtedly higher than 0%, I'd say your argument is null and void.

hhaavviikk5 votes

{quoted}

Assassins shouldn't be able to 1v2 all the time, but supports shouldn't be able to stop it from happening 100% of time either, especially not with just a point and click shield.

but how else would the shields be used? assassins can kill someone in a second so in order for the support to effectively save the ADC the shield has to be near instant to take effect before your ADC dies

AMYS GRAVE3 votes

I think its totally fair for a support + ADC to reliably not lose 2v1. They might not kill the assassin but you shouldn't be able to 1v2 with any kind of consistency. Not getting a kill is not the same as losing a fight.

GinoSoldier26 votes

You. I like you. Sane, reasonable, good arguments. Yep. I like you.

Śhunpo11 votes

Yes and the ADC and support shouldn't be able to 2v5. Real talk though bot lane shouldn't consist of 60%-80% of the team's overall influence.

You say "Assassins shouldn't be able to just freely 1v2..." and yet you fail to realise that that's not even what we're complaining about. We're complaining about how obnoxious bot lane is right now and the fact that assassins literally cannot do their job when matched against even a half decent ADC+support. It's fine if the assassin has to outplay them, but right now even that doesn't particularly matter since supports can just press the next utility, sustain or CC ability in their kit or Exhaust or Locket. What's that? You outplayed them? Looks like you're going to get with another debuff or either target will get buffed to all hell (Lulu does both >:[ ).

chipndip110 votes

{quoted}

Yes and the ADC and support shouldn't be able to 2v5. Real talk though bot lane shouldn't consist of 60%-80% of the team's overall influence.

If this is happening to you, you actually played fucking horrible. If this is sort of happening in late game fights (3+ items), Riot commented that they're going to work on crit scaling soon, and I personally agree that late game crits are currently stupid strong.

However, late game crits aren't my fault.

You say "Assassins shouldn't be able to just freely 1v2..." and yet you fail to realise that that's not even what we're complaining about. We're complaining about how obnoxious bot lane is right now and the fact that assassins literally cannot do their job when matched against even a half decent ADC+support. It's fine if the assassin has to outplay them, but right now even that doesn't particularly matter since supports can just press the next utility, sustain or CC ability in their kit or Exhaust or Locket. What's that? You outplayed them? Looks like you're going to get with another debuff or either target will get buffed to all hell (Lulu does both >:[ ).

I mean, that's what we're supposed to do. You want Lulu to contribute 800 magic damage after resistances to your death instead? That's literally what I was talking about in the OP. You really shouldn't want to run into a support that's not preoccupied with someone else. In your case, a diver champion diving in with you, like Irelia or Vi, would be super beneficial to your odds of success. Diving alone into 2 people is your problem. Of course you're gonna deal with every cd I have available...who else is there but you?

TS Media1 votes

So, you're telling me the fact lulu can ACTUALLY do that much damage AND have as much peel as she does, is totally fine then?

I see.

chipndip17 votes

I'm really trying to be civil, but you insinuating that Lulu is doing 800 ap damage to you AFTER calculating MR is making this hard. Stop misconstruing my words and stop making me have to spell out basic game logic just to move a convo forward.

Thefrostyviking10 votes

Except there are legitimately people, assassin players, who are saying that assassins are garbage on the basis of being unable to win 1v2 against botlane.

Not because the support has BS shields, not because of low CDs, exhaust or ridiculous burst from some of the marksmen or DPS that just about melts anything.

No, they are complaining that they while alone on Zed or whatever cant manage to beat that botlane duo sitting ontop of eachother with everything that matters being available.

Daddy Ants9 votes

Assassin's are meant to look for picks, not 1v2.

NorthernRedStar6 votes

It's just the bad assassin players complaining they can't 1v2. The good ones know how to divide and conquer.

REDCOLORED4 votes

[deleted]

chipndip162 votes

Here's the thing: This isn't a PvE game. You can't just "Assassin's Creed" someone without me noticing. If I see an assassin, I'm saving either Exhaust or ult for when I see him making a move. You need to use your kit to find an opening and hit someone that's vulnerable. THAT'S the point. You slam down on vulnerable targets. Someone that's got someone watching over them with buffs and hard cc on standby ISN'T VULNERABLE unless you're so fed that they can't react quick enough to stop you.

So if you wanna take that chance, take it, but if you die cause your damage is cut by Exhaust and you couldn't make your getaway before getting held down and clicked on, you can't blame me for doing what I'm supposed to do to you. Or...go for my mid laner. Or wait for me to use some cds and THEN fly in. You can make more out of the situation than you think you can, just like how I can hold my own cds until I see key targets move first.

Automated Riven41 votes

Nobody who actually wants balance wants assassin's to burst through the entire supports kit+exhaust. They may however want supports to have something besides 100% uptime on shields plus a plethora of hard and soft cc + exhaust on a lower cooldown then most other ss due to some supports running summoner CD reductions. They may also want ways to outplay the support and win a 1v2 by out Skilling. And they may want to not die in 2-3 autos to the adc in the likely event they don't 1 shot him/her.

If you feel like all of this is unfair to ask for then you need to readjust your version of balance.

Supports are way way way way way to fucking strong right now. And there is nothing assassin's can really do against a competent -actual- support. (not counting troll shit like velkoz, lux, brand, and other shit like that)

GinoSoldier33 votes

If they don't have that, what do they have?

Gonna use Talon as a go-to example though this can apply to pretty much all assassins. Talon's Ult CD has at max 60 seconds, minus whatever CDR he gets, and does undodgeable damage if you land a single hit on a target. All his other cooldowns are about as low as anyone else's. His item cooldowns are about even as anyone else's. He has access to invisibility, dashes and massive burst damage.

Flipside, supports have access to similarly powerful items with similarly long cooldowns. The shield stacking IS an issue still. Cooldowns from support kits tend to be even to those of assassins, with the exception of ultimates. Taking Sona as the example here; her ult is on a 100 seconds cooldown. 40 more than Talon's with a major chance to miss due to the assassin's mobility/invisibility/untargetability. Janna? 120 seconds. Double Talon's. Nami also 100. That means even if you waste your ult because the enemy support did the same to counter you, you're back online faster and get to have a chance to come back.

Your ignite versus their exhaust. If you're worried the ADC might kill you too fast if you get counteracted, you may want to get exhaust yourself.

The damage output by ADCs IS an issue. You shouldn't get instantly annihilated by a damage per second class regardless of whether you fucked up your assassination or not. But if a support used their kit to counter yours, the end result should be null. If the support countered your kit and there happens to be someone else with them ready to fuck you over, then yeah, team game fam.

Automated Riven19 votes

The issue isn't shield stacking. It's shield duration. (also a mobility spell or flash negates over 50% of talons burst. Return hit from w and passive bleed. Unless you allowed him to walk up unstealthed and land wqr on you. Which would just be stupid.)

Shields on average are around 500-600 hp late game. (210 base for Janna with 200-250 ap is + 140-170 so 360 x 30-40% because of % shields. + Aery. Janna with 45% cdr has a .5 second downtime. Lulu has .5 seconds when it's off cooldown and still effective. Karma's is like 3.6 seconds with a 4 second uptime. Plus mantra which makes hers like 1k hp of a shield. Add in locket and redemption and a cleanse and all this other shit. It's fine. Just give the damn assassin's a window to even go in. (no .5 seconds on Janna doesn't count due to burst windows being 1.5 seconds.)

So either half the shield duration (what I'm in favor of) or double the cooldown (I feel like this is the worse option because it removed way more power then the other)

GinoSoldier6 votes

If it means they get stronger AP ratios on their offensive abilities, sure why not. Can't just remove power like that and expect them not to take a monumental winrate dive. I do agree on shields either being too strong or lasting too long (or in sona's case neither of these things unless she's scaled way up).

NineTailedMystic10 votes

Then you get solo lane supports.

GinoSoldier2 votes

I have zero problem with solo lane supports if they still pay for it by being at a disadvantage against their solo laners (worse waveclear, less kill potential, worse roaming for examples) in exchange for better teamfight power and utility later. In their current form there'd certainly be issues, but those can be smoothed over with balance passes.

NineTailedMystic4 votes

Solo lane Supports are only ok when their utility doesn't work on themselves, otherwise they're uninteractive in lane. Good luck killing a Lulu through her W and R solo.

GinoSoldier5 votes

The issue with making supports unable to 'utility' themselves is it negates huge parts of their kits and potential plays. That it works worse on themselves than others, or works better the more people there are, sure, i can see it.

Another way would be to raise their cooldowns or lower effect durations at lower ability levels to ensure the solo support chooses between safety and waveclear.

chipndip113 votes

Riot has done a lot of power shaving from both supports and supports items in recent patches, to the point where a good deal of champs and items are weaker than they were before even the Ardent meta if we're going by numbers.

Also, this is a 1v2 scenario. If you manage to get a kill and not die in this instance, you didn't just "outskill the support", but you also outskilled the adc (unless you're so fed you just skip the skill check and murder them in .1 seconds). It'd be a MASSIVE failure on my and my adc's part if you came out on top going into 2 people by yourself. REALLY consider what you're asking here. Do you think there should be an entire class of champions that should just invalidate you "by mere virtue of having a job to do"? Sure, tanks kinda do that if they're full hp and sitting on a good deal of resistances, but if they get softened up, they become a target, too. What if they just magically took literally 0 damage from you ALL the time because "I'm the tank. It's what I do."? It's not me that needs to readjust my vision of balance here.

Also, adcs only burst your shit in later stages of the game. During the early/mid stages, it's gonna take more than 2-3 clicks to mop you up. Late stages...we'll have that talk in mid season cause I think crit burst is pretty unfun myself.

Automated Riven7 votes

The issue with supports (Janna Lulu and karma's are the big offenders) is that they have 100% uptime on a 300-600 (maybe even 700) hp shields. That doesn't even give you (as an assassin) room to attempt to outplay. Btw I am in favor of outplayes. I don't care who does it. Its good for the game. It makes it fun and allows you to be skillful. Most assassin's burst for maybe like 500-600 damage extra if played optimally. This leaves an assassin unable to even kill the priority target 100% of the time before factoring in things like exhaust or and other forms of cc/peel. So seriously. Shields need to have durations reduced by about half. Well down to 2 seconds. So it's on the support to shield the damage and play well. Not spam e on cooldown and type '/all outplayed' after the assassin trying to get lucky because he doesn't have a realistic ability to do anything else in a teamfight.

chipndip110 votes

None of the supports you mentioned, save Lulu, have a shield cd that's shorter than their shield duration.

And if you reduce shield value, you just increase heal value, which proxy-buffs champs like Nami further, in which case people will say she's op, which I don't want because she isn't, but everything around her is getting nerfed, causing her win rate to climb. >_>

Automated Riven1 votes

.5 second downtime on Janna and .5-.7 on karma.

Also no. Not if your actively blocking damage with the shield. Shields should block damage. But you should not have 95-100% uptime on them.

chipndip19 votes

At 30+ minutes into the game when you have a ton of damage sources to deal with, knocking them off as they're applied.

I'm an advocate of putting emphasis on more skill oriented tools in a support's kit, if you ask me, but since we don't have that for Enchanters, it is what it is until further notice.

only zhule5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nE8AJolA,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-27T00:08:19.587+0000)

Nobody who actually wants balance wants assassin's to burst through the entire supports kit+exhaust. They may however want supports to have something besides 100% uptime on shields plus a plethora of hard and soft cc + exhaust on a lower cooldown then most other ss due to some supports running summoner CD reductions. They may also want ways to outplay the support and win a 1v2 by out Skilling. And they may want to not die in 2-3 autos to the adc in the likely event they don't 1 shot him/her.

If you feel like all of this is unfair to ask for then you need to readjust your version of balance.

Supports are way way way way way to fucking strong right now. And there is nothing assassin's can really do against a competent -actual- support. (not counting troll shit like velkoz, lux, brand, and other shit like that)

I'll give you that no one really likes shields with a 80%+ up time (that the support can keep refreshing for a good 2-3 mins without risking mana issues). But we get back to the same issue, if an assassin is "doing their job right" they aren't 1v2'ing or at least they aren't doing it when the support has their whole kit ready to counter the assassin's engage and is standing RIGHT NEXT to the assassin's preferred target.

Let's be really honest here you wouldn't 1v2 an ADC with with a champion from any other role standing near them. So why is it suddenly unfair that you can't assassinate a target when the support is close by and ready for you?

Automated Riven2 votes

I am not advocating that a assassin should be able to consistently outplay a 1v2. I am simply advocating that they had some measure of counterplay for supports. As they currently don't really have any. They instigated counterplay for assassin's on the markmen end by reducing up front burst. So now assassin's need counterplay to point and click shields and exhaust.

Lower uptime on shields would go a long way toward this.

only zhule4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nE8AJolA,comment-id=00000001000000030000,timestamp=2018-04-27T20:10:52.728+0000)

I am not advocating that a assassin should be able to consistently outplay a 1v2. I am simply advocating that they had some measure of counterplay for supports. As they currently don't really have any. They instigated counterplay for assassin's on the markmen end by reducing up front burst. So now assassin's need counterplay to point and click shields and exhaust.

Lower uptime on shields would go a long way toward this.

So long as they don't nerf the uptime of Sona's shields i'm fine with that. 1.5 seconds is a pretty short shield length.

Mogarl4 votes

{quoted} Or...go for my mid laner.

As a midlaner I feel concerned with your willingness to throw us under the bus.

Doozku3 votes

Enchanters are to Assassins as Assassins were to ADCs in the past. A frustrating counter that completely nullifies the agency of the Assassin player. People are saying that the botlane should almost always win the 1v2, but if instead of an enchanter support they had a blitzcrank or a thresh or even something like an Alistar, suddenly the Assassin has a lot more options and can possibly kill the ADC if he plays will. If the assassin is against a Janna or a Lulu then it's basically a guaranteed loss unless the assassin is crazy fed or the support lacks a brain.

chipndip14 votes

{quoted}

Enchanters are to Assassins as Assassins were to ADCs in the past. A frustrating counter that completely nullifies the agency of the Assassin player. People are saying that the botlane should almost always win the 1v2, but if instead of an enchanter support they had a blitzcrank or a thresh or even something like an Alistar, suddenly the Assassin has a lot more options and can possibly kill the ADC if he plays will. If the assassin is against a Janna or a Lulu then it's basically a guaranteed loss unless the assassin is crazy fed or the support lacks a brain.

So Soraka and Sona...you can't assassinate through them?

Hell, if you saw Soraka, wouldn't you take my advice and assassinate Soraka?

SpongebobIsLife1 votes

so that all my abilities are on cooldown and the adc can assassinate me? You have to bring an ally with you in these cases.

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