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Devourer should stack with old monster kills

Shroom Junkie··3 votes·396 views

What's up with Devourer only stacking new large monster kills and kills/assists? Like, maybe kills and assists shouldn't count, but the monsters? I mean, getting monsters is the main source for Devourer, but it really isn't that good. I mean, you farm and farm and farm when you got Warrior, and realize, "Hey, I should've gotten Devourer." Then next game you do. But hey, all the lanes are losing hard so I have to gank and snowball them. Wait, where's my Devourer stacks? Crap, I can't get them because I haven't farmed much. I should've gotten Warrior.

Basically, Devourer is whether or not your laners win their lanes and you have a chance to farm a ton. But you don't know if that will happen, so you either get Warrior and get a guaranteed amount of damage, or you get Devourer and get a possible chance of a lot of damage. You can't just go through the entire game, then realize, "Hey, I've farmed a ton, I should trade Warrior for Devourer" and actually make it useful. You just can't, it doesn't work. So you either have a shitty early game and possibly shitty late game, or you have a shitty early game and better late game, but Devourer is essentially chance. The chance of whether or not your laners are better than the enemy's laners.

I don't know, maybe I'm just a noob or something, but I just don't see Devourer being very useful except on mega farmers like Nunu and Udyr.

EDIT: I think it would be good if, after you've bought an enchantment, you lose all the previous stacks. So if you buy a machete, you build toward stacks, until you buy an enchantment(besides devourer, of course). If you buy an enchantment, you can do that whole refund thing before you leave the shop and change to devourer. That way, you can build toward your good, real items, then grab devourer mid-late game when you have a ton of stacks, while not just building Warrior early game to make the whole idea of scaling damage kind of useless.

6 Comments

jDVL20eCYs1 votes

nunu mega farmer? that was new

Caeler1 votes

I don't know. That seems kind of exploitable. It would be like buying Warrior, farming, and then switching to Devourer when you want the stacks. This is problematic because the whole point of the Warrior enchantment is early game damage, and the whole point of Devourer is scaling damage. You shouldn't just be able to swap between the two and acquire all the stacks you would have obtained. If you build Warrior to focus on early game, you should not just be able to build Devourer and instantly get the stacks that someone who actually invested gold into it first would have gotten.

If, however, you mean that machete and its enchantless upgrades gave stacks towards Devourer, I think it would be a much less exploitable case (Build an enchant, don't get Devourer stacks. Keep machete, get Devourer stacks. Build Devourer, acquire stacks). It would be a nice addition to Devourer jungles because it would give them a nice number of starting stacks.

Shroom Junkie2 votes

{quoted}

I don't know. That seems kind of exploitable. It would be like buying Warrior, farming, and then switching to Devourer when you want the stacks. This is problematic because the whole point of the Warrior enchantment is early game damage, and the whole point of Devourer is scaling damage. You shouldn't just be able to swap between the two and acquire all the stacks you would have obtained. If you build Warrior to focus on early game, you should not just be able to build Devourer and instantly get the stacks that someone who actually invested gold into it first would have gotten.

If, however, you mean that machete and its enchantless upgrades gave stacks towards Devourer, I think it would be a much less exploitable case (Build an enchant, don't get Devourer stacks. Keep machete, get Devourer stacks. Build Devourer, acquire stacks). It would be a nice addition to Devourer jungles because it would give them a nice number of starting stacks.

Yeah, I thought about that after I posted this. I never bothered to do anything about it though because I was busy.

Anyway, I think it would be good if, after you've bought an enchantment, you lose all the previous stacks. So if you buy a machete, you build toward stacks, until you buy an enchantment(besides devourer, of course). If you buy an enchantment, you can do that whole refund thing before you leave the shop and change to devourer. That way, you can build toward your good, real items, then grab devourer mid-late game when you have a ton of stacks.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

This is problematic because the whole point of the Warrior enchantment is early game damage, and the whole point of Devourer is scaling damage.

I thought the whole point of Warrior was to be good on AD casters, and the whole point of Devourer was to be good on autoattackers (especially ones with on hit or every X hits procs). Why is that mixed in with different power curves and scaling? Doesn't that just keep the autoattackers from providing any early to mid game presence at all (and thus keep them from being played at all in a must-gank-often meta, which seems to be all of them)?

It's hard enough to gank with an autoattack dependent kit when you aren't also handicapped by having a lack of powerspike on your first item.

Differentiating classes is enough of a job for jungle enchants to do. They don't need to also have markedly different power curves and it screws with champion balance when they do.

Although I wouldn't object to all jungle items getting some farm stacking, which starts from Machete. (Proc damage from Devourer like on live, AP from Magus as an earlier version used to have IIRC, probably HP from Cinderhulk, and... I guess AD from Warrior, but they'd have to be careful with the ratio.) This would be a buff to late game of the ones other than Devourer, so it would get a base damage boost instead, giving it the powerspike on build that it currently sadly lacks.

But then stack loss wouldn't be needed -- if they have similar power curves and are mostly class differentiated, then it would be rare to want to sell your jungle item to change enchants anyway, and the gold cost could be enough of a penalty.

Caeler1 votes

{quoted}

I thought the whole point of Warrior was to be good on AD casters, and the whole point of Devourer was to be good on autoattackers (especially ones with on hit or every X hits procs). Why is that mixed in with different power curves and scaling?

Yes, Warrior is good on AD casters. Most champions that benefit from Warrior, however, tend to be early game junglers such as LeeSin or JarvanIV. Devourer would be terrible for them because all of their damage comes from their skills. Autoattackers, however, can make use of both Warrior and Devourer fairly effectively because they tend to have damaging abilities and attack speed steroids. I mean just look at Aatrox MasterYi RekSai Nocturne Shaco Udyr XinZhao. Should they build Warrior for early game or should they build Devourer for late game?

Doesn't that just keep the autoattackers from providing any early to mid game presence at all (and thus keep them from being played at all in a must-gank-often meta, which seems to be all of them)?

Yes and no. It will be harder to pull off ganks without the early spike that Warrior provides, but that does not mean that ganking is pointless. The most important part of ganking, from my personal experience, is having CC. Every one of the above champions save Yi has some form of CC in their kit. Warrior would probably make the gank more likely to succeed, but a good gank is still likely to result in a kill. Additionally, Devourer gives stacks for kills and assists which means that successful ganks are all around better than farming jungle because you obtain money in addition to stacks.

It's hard enough to gank with an autoattack dependent kit when you aren't also handicapped by having a lack of powerspike on your first item.

I play Xin Zhao jungle pretty frequently, and my first item is Devourer about 99% of the time. I never really have trouble ganking lanes and getting kills. As I stated above, the most important part is CC. As long as the lane you're ganking has some form of CC (either from you or from your laner), then you can pick up kills.

Differentiating classes is enough of a job for jungle enchants to do. They don't need to also have markedly different power curves and it screws with champion balance when they do.

Gonna have to disagree here. Power curves are all over the place in this game. You have champions with different scalings and power curves, classes that scale better into lategame than others (Marksmen), and items that are better lategame than others.

But then stack loss wouldn't be needed -- if they have similar power curves and are mostly class differentiated, then it would be rare to want to sell your jungle item to change enchants anyway, and the gold cost could be enough of a penalty.

The key word is "mostly". As I stated above, there are several junglers who can use multiple jungle enchantments. Some of them might sell their Warrior enchant for Devourer if they reach lategame because it will end up doing more damage. Gold cost as a penalty is debatable.

Rebonack1 votes

Just give Devourer Bloodrazor's old passive and nix the stack-farming nonsense.

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