Janna shouldnt have access to a instant knock up.

Oakleaf Ranger··2 votes·318 views

Something I ended up hearing a while ago that I think makes pretty good sense. She already has some of the best peeling and shielding tools. Her Q should be a slow if released without enough charge time instead of being a instant knock up. It would raise her skill floor while making her peeling more conditional.

7 Comments

Cavemantero1 votes

But it goes against the original design of tornado from the druids in the original DOTA WC3... I just think the shield and speed buff needs nerfed or increase the cooldown on the stupid Q (one of the best harass tools in the game). The speed buff is the stronget thing in the game which is why she has been a staple for LCS. Rito knows her kit is overloaded but doesn't want to piss off some choad designer/developer probably who likes her.

moist moms1 votes

neither should kayn

The Last Ballad1 votes

Kayn has a .5-1 second cast time/windup to his knock-up(not sure of the exact timing), and that is only in one form. In every form his w has a delay, but base has the .5+ second cast time and its only a slow, and shadow assassin has the delay(no longer a cast time) and a stronger slow.

Kayn does not have an instantaneous knock up.

koshkyra1 votes

Its not instant anymore because of the new "1.5" second rule, and its 0.5 seconds when you use it instantly

????

The Last Ballad1 votes

She already has some of the best peeling and shielding tools.

True, but her instant q knock up is the foundation of her being the best at peeling(as opposed to being equal with the likes of Lulu, who not only has a shield of the same power with a more consistent cooldown, but it can also be used to nullify enemy's invisibility via truesight). Her tornado is used primarily to prevent dashes, and that is how she got her reputation for being the best peeling support. Some dashes are ~.5 seconds or less, how on earth are you supposed to interrupt those if you have to wait a second or so to gain the knock up? You already have to predict when a Leblanc or a Alistar are going to dash due to the fact that their dashes are too fast to reliably react to, why would you want to remove one of the few ways that a team can prevent it(especially since the way relies on the Janna actually predicting the skill being used)?. If you want it changed to a dash denying knockdown(basically a skillshot Poppy w) until charged for some time, then fine, that makes it fairer to the likes of Hecarim Rammus Volibear, but removing the ability to deny dashes from it would be a no-go.

It would raise her skill floor while making her peeling more conditional.

No, it wouldn't just raise her skill floor, it would make her crap into matchups against all-in supports and all manner of divers, the class her kit is designed to be good against. Most of the all in supports(Alistar Rakan Thresh) have dashes she can interrupt, but those dashes are quick and the first two need to be predicted, and Thresh's needs you not to be the target(also you need to predict when his ally will use the lantern to escape, you can interrupt that too). And many divers, such as Jax JarvanIV Kled LeeSin MonkeyKing XinZhao... basically everyone except for Zac &Leona, have quick <1 second dashes.

And does peeling need to be conditional? Lulu has a point-n-click, tenacity resistant, make-them-useless button for twice the base duration that also can be buffered to go off on a champ that is going to go in on you. Janna at least has to actually hit the enemy with a skill shot as they are in middle of their dash.

Janna is peel centric. Her shielding is secondary to the majority of Janna mains(the people who play Janna because they like Janna, not because she is easy). Of all the changes to any champs kit that have been well recepted, none have removed something that plays into their core theme. And removing her ability to do her main job reliably(or honestly, at all against competent opponents) even after lvl 6 sounds like it would be a terrible direction.

It would be like removing Talon's ability to assassinate till after lvl 6, but even then he would have to wait a second after appearing next to the adc to even begin getting any of his damage off. Evelynn Akali Fizz have all gotten flak for their reliance on their ults to do their job, so why are you trying to add another champ to the burning refuse pile of overreliance on ults?

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

I just want to see her Q go from being a panic button whenever someone initiates an all in/dive to an ability that requires foresight to be used as an effective peeling tool.

You pointing out Lulu's reliable point and click CC or a shield just highlights how reliable and unconditional heals, shields, and heals are. Which I'm not against when available in moderation or with meaningful trade offs. Like how Janna has a instant knock back on her ultimate but using it means its not available again for quite some time.

The Last Ballad1 votes

That's why I feel that a knockdown using the dashing detection(like Taliyah's minefield mixed with poppy's w) would be an appropriate middle ground, as it would allow Janna's to stop the likes of Alistar as you already have to launch the tornado before the Moo-cow even uses his w(i think that is his headbut), but it would also prevent it from being a panic button for Volibear Rammus MasterYi Chogath Hecarim... basically the champs that engage by running at you in a sudden burst of speed.

I don't see Janna being able to counter the seemingly instantaneous dashes as being an issue, as she is one of the few champs that is capable of doing so reliably(but in order to reliably block dashes she needs to be planning for and reacting to the dashes, sometimes preemptively). I do agree that her being, at best, a huge pain to, and at worst, a hard counter to, all juggernauts(and some dashless divers) just by panic buttoning her basic kit is an issue.

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