Bramble vest is getting nerfed next patch...

Oakleaf Ranger·Sep 25, 2017·86 votes·4,201 views

Well it was fun while it lasted.

Time to step aside to the top lane overlord once again.

111 Comments

Aatrox Mid 1v5Sep 25, 201760 votes

Rito are really dumb. "oh we accidently double nerfed fiora, so we're gonna revert the nerfs to her and then nerf bramble vest as well." shes close to where she was at before the nerfs...

DeathBurstSep 25, 201727 votes

Yeah sure, a nerfed Bramblevest is "exactly" the same as no Bramblevest at all. Definitely.

Aatrox Mid 1v5Sep 25, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Yeah sure, a nerfed Bramblevest is "exactly" the same as no Bramblevest at all. Definitely.

Yeah, not exactly but you know what I mean.

Shepherd o SoulsSep 25, 20172 votes

I'd like all GW to apply at a % threshold like item 3165 , higher % for bramble since tanks don't deal as much as an AD champ or mage, but also making it so you have to put any effort into trading to make the item work.

Morello requires full build to require you to lower them to reduce healing while ex calling and bramble are really cheap and very effective against match-ups where you buy them. You apply grievous with no effort at all.

These miniature items feel like very hard counters when there's literally no way to prevent it from getting to you other than not trying to trade at all, and leads a very boring and non-interactive lane/game. Morello gives you a chance to outplay and keep away from low health and feels pretty decent in terms of having grievous mechanic on it.

Papa RinkySep 25, 201739 votes

REMOVE THE ATTACK SPEED SLOW ON W REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Mos Deadly98Sep 25, 20172 votes

it goes through yi ult and olaf ult sometimes for some fucekd reason too.

VumzucesSep 25, 20175 votes

That's just a lie.

LadyRenlySep 25, 201738 votes

if theyre gonna nerf bramble, then how about making thornmail not complete and utter shit?

God RaijinSep 25, 20177 votes

It's getting +5 armor and staying the same price according to surrender@20 atm. Not much, but i'll take it.

kasfasSep 25, 201717 votes

+5 ad

DiscoVinzanSep 25, 20179 votes

Guys let's nerf Fiora she is too op
Guys let's implement Bramble Vest into the game
Guys let's BUFF Fiora because Bramble Vest makes her balanced (how?)
Guys let's NERF Bramble Vest ...
Profit

One Ashe OnSep 25, 20176 votes

As a Quinn player... i'm happy it get nerfed... it destroyed every single chance of me snowballing lane when playing right because people rushed bramble vest and ninja tabi to deny me entirely.

Nanuk PihoqahiakSep 25, 201735 votes

They used it to deny the fact that you're playing a ranged into a melee matchup. Traditional melee at early levels don't have an answer to someone picking ranged with the intent to shut them down. So, obviously you'd be happy, as it was the only chance they had.

Asayake 5150glowSep 25, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Angus The Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dYMLyUrc,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-09-25T05:00:27.271+0000)

They used it to deny the fact that you're playing a ranged into a melee matchup. Traditional melee at early levels don't have an answer to someone picking ranged with the intent to shut them down. So, obviously you'd be happy, as it was the only chance they had.

Bias against ranged tops is huge af, and it's not like we're invading the lane either. Quinn isn't Vayne, we can't ADC - we're top laners just like you are... we can jungle too, but many tops can also do that.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20175 votes

I think people only hate ranged tops because the boards have a massive collective boner for Darius, who's pretty much only beaten in lane by range.

Jet SettSep 25, 20177 votes

I mean I fucking hate Darius along with Quinn. I don't care how "bad" juggernauts are, when they're good they're fucking cancer.

Dokueki KenshinSep 25, 20176 votes

Utmost respect, you CAN ADC with Quinn. I literally took her to Mastery 7 as full crit ADC Quinn. Her single target damage at all stages of the game is nuts.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20171 votes

Cool. And how are you killing a tank? By aggressively running away from them?

Dokueki KenshinSep 25, 20173 votes

Early game, there's some kiting involved, yes. That just comes with the territory. Late game, though, they're running from me. Full crit + over 100% Total AD on Harrier marks makes even tanks give pause. Also, you're two shotting carries with the same attack speed they have.

Papa RinkySep 25, 20171 votes

If you dont have a lead as a quinn top by the time they get bramble vest, you already lost that matchup. I'd say you lost it pretty hard actually

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20177 votes

If you don't have a half-item up on them before they get 900g, you deserve to lose?

I call absolute bullshit. You don't deserve to lose just because they buy a 900g item before you have the items you need to succeed.

TrestaniSep 25, 201712 votes

but hey lets leave item 3123 alone so DrMundo can be left gutted in the corner. Grievous wounds as a whole needs to be reworked. One 900 gold item shouldnt counter an entire champs kit

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20178 votes

Oh. That needs to be changed, too. It does need to be reworked overall. It shouldn't give full value with just half the item. Bramble vest shouldn't give all 40%, Executioner's shouldn't give all 40%.

Although Mundo needs some work, especially if both are changed. He's basically balanced around there being a constant Grievous on him. He needs a bit less sustain, and a bit less damage. The same as Vladimir does.

Champions shouldn't be this balanced around the simple existence (or lack thereof) of Grievous Wounds being picked up first. Late-game, that's a different story (which is how you're supposed to counteract Lifesteal), but not early on.

ThilmerSep 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cóól Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dYMLyUrc,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-25T17:52:17.327+0000)

but hey lets leave alone so can be left gutted in the corner. Grievous wounds as a whole needs to be reworked. One 900 gold item shouldnt counter an entire champs kit

The problem is that after nerfing "grievous wounds", we would see an ADC with item 3072 item 3812 been almost inmortal, because lifesteal is that absurd.

CorriandrSep 25, 20172 votes

Inevitably, a Grievous Wounds rework would require a life steal rework.

RexxieeSep 25, 20175 votes

Bramble vest is still too broken, the item needs to be deleted.

kasfasSep 25, 201715 votes

Sure, first delete vamp sceptre and we can get going.

Leaf on BushSep 25, 20172 votes

It counters champions too, not just lifesteal from items and that is a problem.

CorriandrSep 25, 20175 votes

I'm fine with that, so long as said champions being countered have other means in their kit than relying purely on regen. Say, Mundo DrMundo being countered by item 3123 ? I am not ok with that, as his health regen is his entire power budget, and it makes me sad i cannot play him for that reason. Aatrox Aatrox being countered by item 3076 ? I am not fine with that as, again, life steal is his entire power budget.

Fiora or Irelia being countered by item 3076 ? I am fine with that, as they have other tools that their power budget has been given to.

However, given that Aatrox DrMundo are really the only two, not counting Soraka to some extent, that this applies to, it's really not all that bad.

Unless you're a DrMundo or Aatrox main [sg-soraka]

I Like TeemoSep 25, 20174 votes

Fiora you say huh... Rammus has a few words to say about her

KovorixSep 25, 201774 votes

Like "Look at my armor its useless against your true damage"?

Papa RinkySep 25, 201739 votes

Or "Man I sure love being stunned for even THINKING of trying to taunt you!"

Zero Skill TankSep 25, 201721 votes

Actually, Rammy's taunt is instant so it's one of the few CC abilities in the game that you actually can use against Fiora.

Forget about ever knocking her up, tho.

5000000000000000Sep 25, 20172 votes

You can use it during the cast animation of her Q, but only during then.

Zero Skill TankSep 25, 20172 votes

You can use it anytime, unless you use it while she is already immune. It has no delay so as long as you don't cast it on immune Fiora she can't prevent it.

LordGeovanniSep 25, 20172 votes

or she can predict you will use it when you are in an obvious spot where he would want to use it on you aka after procing1 vital instant w to counter ramus ew

Fondling GemsSep 26, 20179 votes

I mean that is kinda on you. It is two abilities with no cast time, you can't use the argument that she can predict it when you have the exact same option. You can predict she will use it and save it, it is the same on both sides, in favour of Rammus actually since he has the shorter CD and Fio is the one trying to use it reactively.

aceknighthighSep 26, 20173 votes

{quoted}

You can use it during the cast animation of her Q, but only during then.

Fiora can parry and q, so you can't really use it during her q unless you were reacting before she even dashed(i.e. predicted her q)

DtimeDSep 25, 20174 votes

How the fuck is Fiora the one that this affects most. She uses lots of abilities and half her damage is max hp true damage. Really couldnt have picked someone that bramble actually dicked over like Tryndamere?

Glory ln DeathSep 25, 201711 votes

3 of Fiora's 4 active abilities revolve around or are counted as auto-attacks, though? And her entire passive/ult involve healing off of autos? And she tends to build a decent amount of lifesteal, which functions through autos? And Tryndamere isn't an oppressively strong hypercarry with an oppressively strong early game?

My Waifu VanillaSep 25, 20172 votes

I will agree that Fiora isn't hit the HARDEST by the item existing, but she is easily in top 3 (Aatrox is by far in the highest spot but he didn't see play even before the item was added).

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20172 votes

Aatrox wasn't affected by Bramble Vest because he was already invalidated by Executioner's Calling.

DtimeDSep 25, 20171 votes

Only one of her abilities involves an auto attack? Healing off of autos is the perfect way to counter thornmail? Again, lifesteal is the best way to counter thornmail so I dont know why you even put this? Tryndamere is just as strong of a hypercarry?

Glory ln DeathSep 26, 20176 votes

Only one of her abilities involves an auto attack?

Do you know what Fiora's kit is?

Q: Lunge - deals physical damage and applies on-hit effects - aka is treated as an auto attack, and activates Bramblevest's return damage and Grievous Wounds.
E: Bladework - Fiora's next two attacks have increased range and attack speed. The first attack slows the target's movement speed, and the second attack crits. Both are auto attacks, so they both activate the return damage and Grievous Wounds.
Ult: Grand Challenge - 4 vitals appear on the target enemy. Fiora gains bonus movespeed near them. If Fiora triggers 1 vital before the target dies or triggers all 4, a zone is created where ally champions are healed. How does one trigger vitals, you ask? Ah, that's right. Through auto attacks. In other words, her ult is useless unless she auto attacks!

Fiora's W: Riposte is literally the only part of her kit that is not completely centered around auto attacking, and is the only part that doesn't activate Bramblevest on her!

Healing off of autos is the perfect way to counter thornmail? Again, lifesteal is the best way to counter thornmail so I dont know why you even put this?

Do you even know what Thornmail does? It's entire purpose is to counter auto-attack based healing, such as Fiora's passive and lifesteal. Lifesteal is not a counter to Grievous Wounds - Grievous Wounds is a counter to lifesteal!

Finally, Tryndamere isn't nearly as strong as Fiora at any point in the game. For one thing, he is almost entirely limited to split-pushing and dueling. His teamfighting is pretty bad, while Fiora is still very useful in a teamfight, as well as being able to split-push and duel just as well (her dueling is better, honestly).

DtimeDSep 26, 20171 votes

Grevious wounds does not block all healing and i didnt know q was counted as an auto

Glory ln DeathSep 26, 20174 votes

Grievous wounds reduces all healing by 40%. It is a hard counter to any champion with sustain in their kit (Fiora's Vitals) or who builds lifesteal (which Fiora does).

CasterGilgameshSep 26, 20172 votes

Tryndamere isnt oppressive? wut? only reason is he doeskin bring enough into a team fight to justify picking him.he wins lane through RNG and brainlessly right clicking (at least fiora has to get into a spot to hit a vital which people can just move to keep her from getting)

50ShadesOfÀDCSep 25, 20172 votes

Because people buy bramble and dont complete it till they get their 3rd item.

LauchmelderSep 25, 201711 votes

{quoted}

Because people buy bramble and dont complete it till they get their 3rd item.

Sounds like item 3155 and that piece of shit doesn't get the same treatment

DuskDaUmbreonSep 25, 20174 votes

Because you have a reason to upgrade Hexdrinker. Every part about it gets better (shield and stats), so you do still have a reason to upgrade it. It's an okay item to sit on, but the upgrade's tempting enough that people go for it a bit earlier

Nobody buys Bramble vest for any reason except Grievous Wounds, unless they're Rammus. He's the only one that uses the damage portion. Literally everyone else can sit on Bramble Vest until they have all of their other items, because the upgrade just isn't worth the gold difference.