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Gathering Storm should work every 5 min. instead of every 10 min.

Oakleaf Ranger··146 votes·6,548 views

Just cut the ap bonus in half since its every 5 minutes. I don't think I have seen anyone take this rune after the first 2 to 3 weeks of pre season because its just so bad.

It just takes too long for it to start working for just an AP/AD bonus. Especially when its competing with scorch which grants bonus damage right off the bat. It seems like its trying to match Transcendence (gain 10% cool down reduction at the 10 min. mark) when the pay off for the two at the 10 minute mark being drastically different. Transcendence works at the 10 minute mark because it offers a meaningful power spike for playing with one rune down for the first 10 minutes. Compared to the 8 AP or 5 AD of gathering storm which is basically nothing.

It takes at least 20 minutes before this rune realistically starts to gain value. 10 minute gaps for so little value is just not worth it in the early game. You need to throw players a bone and make it every 5 minutes otherwise its just too little too late by the time the 20 minute mark comes along.

TLDR

The progession of power on this rune needs to be a little more occasional that what it currently is.

Edit: making a post before going to sleep and then seeing it make top front page is the best, thx boards

58 Comments

Leonerdo10 votes

The entire point of the rune is that it's the strongest late-game non-keystone rune, and that it's a liability in the early game. Making it more reliable or making it ramp up more steadily (every 5 minutes or whatever) is counter-productive to it's intent, makes it more homogeneous with other runes, and weakens it's gameplay (focus on 20- and 30-minute power-spikes).

We've heard it a million times already, but this is probably another case where "it's better to buff something's strengths than to nerf its weaknesses." Especially since non-keystone runes have such small power budgets, it's hard enough to have appreciable gameplay and counterplay surrounding pure-stat-bonus runes; let's not making it worse by smoothing out the weaknesses of a uniquely powerful rune.

...Unless of course, it's already too powerful past 20-minutes. Buffing it's strength might make it too binary ("win any game that goes 40+ minutes"). In that, case if it's still weak overall, then buffing it's consistency might make more sense. Riot will have to look at the data to figure it out properly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Elohaven3 votes

It's easy to change the incremental values though

Leonerdo1 votes

That doesn't really matter if the change is bad. Easy vs. hard only matters if there are equally valuable changes on the table. We gotta figure out whats best first, before we consider if there's an easier way.

Baron Barian8 votes

The entire point of it is to give you additional late game scaling. If it gives you results immediately, then it's not actually doing what it's suppose to do.

Anu3isII41 votes

If it gives weak results that increase with time, it still can be a late game scaling rune.

Scorch for example has good base damage in the early game, and it still scales as you level up, despite being a pure early game rune.

By making the initial bonus weaker and having high scaling, it will still be a late game rune.

Compare to the old runes, which had flat stats and per level stats. The per level runes were for scaling, but they still gave you decent bonus stats, and most actually started outscaling flat runes at level 6!

Wimbledofy1 votes

outscaling happened at level 9 I thought.

Anu3isII4 votes

I checked the numbers again, and they vary between level 6 and 9.

Flat AP Glyphs : 1.19 Per level AP Glyphs : 0.17 per level (3.06) (At level 7 are equal)

Flat MR Glyphs : 1.34 Per level MR Glyphs : 0.16 per level (3) (At level 9 it outscales)

Flat Armor Seals : 1 Per level Armor Seals : 0.16 per level (Roughly the same at level 6, outscales at 7)

I don't know why there is variation between all the runes, but I guess there were some balancing reasons.

FilDaFunk17 votes

What's this late game you speak of?

manamejaff6 votes

oh so those 60 mins games weren't long enough for ya ?

FilDaFunk10 votes

Games can last up to 60 mins???

I thought Lee Sin came and smashed the Nexus at 30 mins.

Melledoneus8 votes

No, Zoe comes in and one shots it.

Calumny3 votes

Aye LMAO

wildfox993 votes

{quoted}

What's this late game you speak of?

when the ADC closes the item 1038 + item 3086

DuskDaUmbreon8 votes

I agree. Although I think giving half at 5 minutes might be a bit too strong, since it's a quadratic scaling, not a linear one (so you'd be getting more than you should have if you were giving half the bonus). Maybe a third of it at every 5 minute mark (would mostly balance it out), and the full at the 10 minute marks?

Mawootad3 votes

It's not too hard to balance out so that it remains the same, you just change the AP gain from 8 x number of increments (8, 16, 24, etc with total of 8, 24, 48) to 1 + 2 x number of increments (3, 5, 7, 9, etc with total of 3, 8, 15, 24).

ƒrostγ8 votes

In this meta there's no true lategame, that's why it feels so useless IMO.

DarkSunSovereign8 votes

Agreed, but you do realize Transcendence activates at level 10, right? And not at 10 min.

The Lexer6 votes

Transcendence is 10% CDR at level 10.

Also, I love Gathering Storm

wildfox995 votes

what if it would give AP/AD per lvl? or giving AP/AD that scales at levels 1/6/11/16?

Meep Man3 votes

Not 5 mins, but I think about 7 and a half to 8 would be good. I dont think just having a more constant, same rate buff will be enough to make it more worth it.

ReadyForTheLCS3 votes

Bump

Karfuss3 votes

The rune is arguably best in slot. GS is already more valuable at 10 minutes, the only reason Scorch is preferred, is that the tone of the game is often decided long before that. You want that immediate power to get ahead, which is something GS doesn't do.

Tsarkillo3 votes

True. Gathering storm is utter trash.

Professor Ward2 votes

This rune is WAY WAY WAY overtuned for 40+ minute games. It scales ridiculously.

SirLapse2 votes

Don't think I agree with there being another damage rune down there, since it overlaps with Scorch and we've seen enough damage creep.

waiting for WoW2 votes

If it was more like old scaling AP/AD no one would ever take scorch, or Riot would have to buff scorch to ridiculous levels to compete with it. Gathering Storm is already great if your playstyle is scaling over lane pressure.

Usernamehere12352 votes

I think it's designed around long, incremental bonus AD/AP. If it was given every 5 minutes, that would reduce the risk associated with taking it naturally, because overall through the game you'd have more bonus AD/AP with a 5m increment vs a 10m increment.

Gathering Storm is supposed to be a risk, specifically taken by late game scalers. When you change that increment to a lower value, it becomes less risky as a result.

Dealth1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's designed around long, incremental bonus AD/AP. If it was given every 5 minutes, that would reduce the risk associated with taking it naturally, because overall through the game you'd have more bonus AD/AP with a 5m increment vs a 10m increment.

Gathering Storm is supposed to be a risk, specifically taken by late game scalers. When you change that increment to a lower value, it becomes less risky as a result.

dont use logic on the gameplay boards

YuGiHo2 votes

But would people still take scorch? both the runes are bad at different stages in the game although scorch scaling with lv gets stronger if u can get a exp lead and storm gives power at 10 min intervals so even if u are behind so long as you can stall you should come out on top later on.

The problem is Scorch provides power pre 10 min that u can us to get ahead and even after the 10 min so long as u are ahead of the storm user in exp your rune is still providing more power. At 20 min stom beats scorch but at the cost of the previous 20 min of the game and this is also when u can ff so it makes sense that the rune isnt doing well.

Meanwhile Watewalking....

muted team chat2 votes

"your rune is worthless for the part of the game that determined the outcome"

PopcornBunni2 votes

Comparing it to Transcendence is an insult to the cooldown rune.

item 3165 item 3100 item 3157 item 3102 item 3001item 3158 gives 80 AP, which gathering storm doesn't reach until 40 minutes.

That isn't even going wild with Transcendence like tanks, especially AP tanks, can with item 3025 item 3071 item 3110 item 3110item 3065 item 3165

Jinx Hunter2 votes

Only way this works is if its the stats are halved for ranged. We don't need marksmen getting even more free shit to be even more damn op. (sorry mages, but until riot gets their head out of their asses, you have to bite the bullet like the rest of us.)

Kàyle1 votes

I think it would be Celerity + Gathering storm when the current Boots + Stopwatch gets nerfed. GS is pretty good with IE/Dcap/RB

Moonscourge1 votes

Even at 10 minutes this rune already easily outclasses Scorch and Waterwalking is technically better, but has zero impact on 80% of the map. It is the best in slot BY FAR and does not need any buffs or changes.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

This may sound very strange but Keegun, the top Pantheon player on NA runs Gathering Storm on Pantheon. Something I couldn't get my head around, considering Panth is a champ who should be playing for early game. He had an explanation for it which I couldn't quite remember, I think the 5 AD at 10 mins being more valuable than scorch, and the possible 40 min bonus being too big a stat boost to pass up.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

isn’t he the guy that Dong Huap made his pantheon video on? If so then the reasoning for him is because he tries to focus extremely on the macro game. However if he also goes to say that one mistake/fuck up can easily cost you the game.

That’s a pretty unforgiving trade off for just one mistake. You could also argue that pantheons scaling is so bad that you need gathering storm (even if you think it’s bad) to still be a damage threat in the mid to late game.

Dedenne1 votes

I go it nearly every single game.

Iffy Jarl1 votes

I don't wnna speak out my ass because I don't have all the numbers on these runes but in my experience I usually take scorch obviously if I'm going to be proccing it, I never talk water walk, maybe it needs a buff or maybe I'm just not playing the champs to use it, and whenever I take waterwalk I just kind of feel like I'm taking it just to not take scorch ya know

General Esdeath 1 votes

good on junglers especially Warwick Vi Sejuani Shyvana

ahferroin71 votes

You do realize it's not linear scaling? It follows a binary exponential progression (more specifically, the math is 2^(N+2), where N is the number of 10-minute periods that have passed). Just cutting things in half doesn't exactly work here. The math doesn't exactly work in a way that makes sense to most people without some significant adjustment (the naive adjustment would be to replace N with 0.5*N and switch N to be 5-minute periods, but that gives odd numbers (15 minutes would give 11.313, not the 12 that most people would expect).

R31W1NG1 votes

[8, 8x3, 8x2x3, 8x2x5, 8x3x5, 8x3x7] ap or [4.8, 4.8x3, 4.8x2x3, 4.8x2x5, 4.8x3x5, 4.8x3x7] ad

where exactly is your pretty formula because i appear to be blind?

Jesus is Savior1 votes

I use this rune every game.MasterYi

Corrupt Bliss1 votes

I take it every time with Veigar <3

Professor Ward1 votes

once this gives ap or ad, it instantly becomes better than every other option in the tree, and late game, its better than every keystone in the game. The balance to this keystone is the fact that you dont get it early.

Sukishoo1 votes

Yeah it needs some work.

Theorex1 votes

If you do that the rune becomes a staple. 10 minute intervals are just right to make it risk vs reward.

GigglesO1 votes

We need a building the wall rune option, that increases defense infinitely by a flat amount every 5 minutes as well.

Lucian Waifu1 votes

Why not every minute but make it scale at 1/10 what it does now?

Spoofghoul1 votes

i do think quicker increments would be nice

but it should not give any more ap/ad

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