Black Cleaver to replace Last Whisper?

Laraso·Apr 24, 2015·4 votes·1,787 views

: 2300 Gold 40 Attack Damage 35% Armor Penetration

: 3000 Gold 40 Attack damage 30% Armor Penetration 20% Cooldown reduction 400 Health +20 Movement Speed on Damage Dealt +60 Movement Speed for Kills and Assists

For only 700 more gold, you get so much more with the new Black Cleaver. The 400 health alone is already worth well over 700 gold, which is the price difference between the two items, but you also get the very high amount of cooldown reduction and the rage passive as well. Unless you're really behind and you need to get armor penetration ASAP, I see almost no reason to buy Last Whisper at this point. Does anyone else agree?

EDIT: GUYS, I'M TALKING ABOUT CHAMPS LIKE WHO TYPICALLY BUILD LAST WHISPER. NOT ADCs.

13 Comments

JeijeApr 24, 20153 votes

The armor pen for Cleaver has to ramp up; you get Whisper's armor pen from the beginning.

Variks the LoyalApr 24, 20152 votes

For AD Casters, probably, but specifically not Riven, because she doesn't benefit from the Rage passive like other champions do.

It will become really good on Renekton , Garen , RekSai and the like.

It'll be decent on a few others, like Sion and Udyr .

umbraˉApr 24, 20151 votes

no wtf

LarasoApr 24, 20151 votes

Care to state any reasons why? Is the 5% extra armor penetration really worth more than everything else the Black Cleaver gives you?

umbraˉApr 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Care to state any reasons why? Is the 5% extra armor penetration really worth more than everything else the Black Cleaver gives you?

You have to ramp up Cleaver

Drunk RummateApr 24, 20151 votes

Cleaver penetration ramps up so it's not great on ADCs. 35% pen on your first 6 autos is better than 5% -> 10% -> 15% -> 20% -> 25% -> 30% pen on your first 6 autos.

And ADCs dont really need the CDR except maybe lucian/graves. The movespeed would be nice but thats about it.

DreadlocksApr 24, 20151 votes

so get both and get 65% + 6% from masteries ^^ gegeeeeeeee armor

Drunk RummateApr 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

so get both and get 65% + 6% from masteries ^^ gegeeeeeeee armor

Unfortunately they're multiplicative, not additive. So far less than that.

LarasoApr 24, 20151 votes

It's not too much less. A target with 100 armor will have an effective armor of 45.5 with both Black Cleaver and Last Whisper, meaning that both of them together gives you 55.5% armor penetration.

I'm not too sure how to factor the mastery into that, though.

IcyPepperApr 24, 20151 votes

it's cheaper and the passive is static, making it ideal for an adc since they typically need to move onto the fourth item afterwards.

LarasoApr 24, 20151 votes

I'm talking about AD casters like Riven , not ADCs.

IcyPepperApr 24, 20151 votes

Ah.

At least the armor pen isn't static, and requires extended trades, giving more room for counterplay (not that there wasn't already, but still).

Kind of reminds of Shiv vs PD, tbh. Gives people options, spend more money on power or less money for efficiency? More diversity, won't exactly rule with an iron fist.