A new way to balance marksmen?

Done25·Oct 16, 2014·1 votes·566 views

What if ranged attackers couldn't attack at full strength within 150 (Vayne) to 200 (Caitlyn) units? Current situation: Jarvan jumps in on Caitlyn late game. She starts auto attacking him for 800 dps a second. Even if he kills her he will probably still lose at least a good half or more of his health. Assuming he manages to kill her and not the other way around.

My thinking is this: Should ranged attackers be good at both far away AND close up? If Caitlyn lets Jarvan get up in her face shouldn't she be punished for it? If she had a penalty of -50% damage to close ranged targets she would have to mind her positioning more instead of thinking "Can I kill him faster than he kills me?".

I think that if they did this not only would it give markemen an exploitable weakness, but it would better allow Riot to buff them when they play as intended. (At range.)

6 Comments

Kuroi86Oct 16, 20142 votes

My thinking is this: Should ranged attackers be good at both far away AND close up? If Caitlyn lets Jarvan get up in her face shouldn't she be punished for it?

She is already punished, she is squishy, Jarvan is tanky (Or should be.) If he reaches her, she has much less chance of winning an all out slug out unless she is heavily fed and way ahead in items.

I think that if they did this not only would it give markemen an exploitable weakness, but it would better allow Riot to buff them when they play as intended. (At range.)

They already have an exploitable weakness, they have to build almost pure damage to really be effective, thus they have next to no defensive ability, meaning when most champs get on top of them, they might as well just kiss their butt goodbye and try to take the enemy with them.

Done25Oct 16, 20141 votes

My thinking is this: Should ranged attackers be good at both far away AND close up? If Caitlyn lets Jarvan get up in her face shouldn't she be punished for it?

She is already punished, she is squishy, Jarvan is tanky (Or should be.) If he reaches her, she has much less chance of winning an all out slug out unless she is heavily fed and way ahead in items.

I think that if they did this not only would it give markemen an exploitable weakness, but it would better allow Riot to buff them when they play as intended. (At range.)

They already have an exploitable weakness, they have to build almost pure damage to really be effective, thus they have next to no defensive ability, meaning when most champs get on top of them, they might as well just kiss their butt goodbye and try to take the enemy with them.

The problem is that when the enemy Vayne gets a double kill down at bottom lane and gets her Blood Thirster early on she becomes a lot less "squishy." Marksment only have a weakness so long as you're on even footing with them. Because of their exponential nature if they hit that mid/late game section before you do things become rather one sided.

Kuroi86Oct 17, 20141 votes

...

I'm genuinely speechless.

I've never heard of a Vayne buying BT...

EVER.

Also, it's called snowballing, it's meant to happen in this game, get over it. :P

LordTobiothanOct 16, 20142 votes

My thinking is this: Should ranged attackers be good at both far away AND close up? If Caitlyn lets Jarvan get up in her face shouldn't she be punished for it?

She is already punished, she is squishy, Jarvan is tanky (Or should be.) If he reaches her, she has much less chance of winning an all out slug out unless she is heavily fed and way ahead in items.

I think that if they did this not only would it give markemen an exploitable weakness, but it would better allow Riot to buff them when they play as intended. (At range.)

They already have an exploitable weakness, they have to build almost pure damage to really be effective, thus they have next to no defensive ability, meaning when most champs get on top of them, they might as well just kiss their butt goodbye and try to take the enemy with them.

The "viable" marskmen are like fighting veigar with no cooldowns when they hit late game. Bruisers rarely out duel lucy, trist, jinx, or even twitch for that matter once they have hit 4 items. Not even counting escapes. You basically rely on your mage/assassin by that point.

Besides if your amount of tank makes their damage hit you for the same percentage of health as you hit them, they win on lifesteal alone.

Kuroi86Oct 17, 20141 votes

Bruiser effectiveness is meant to fall off mid/late game.
I've still popped all of the ADC you mentioned playing champs like Renekton and Pantheon. The effectiveness of Marksmen is in their kiting, keeping out of your range just long enough so that when/if you finally catch up to them, you cannot kill them before they kill you.

Again, this is assuming an even amount of gold and exp. If one champ is fed, it can tilt that equation in their favor heavily.

The ADC is meant to be the late game monster. What you suggest is nothing but a vicious nerf without proper reasoning.

Also, as Jarvan, your damage item should be Hydra, so lifesteal alone cannot explain them winning that trade. He has enough damage as well as enough defensive capabilities and steroids to be able to out duel most ADC unless they are fed and he is not.

Done25Oct 17, 20141 votes

The "viable" marskmen are like fighting veigar with no cooldowns when they hit late game. Bruisers rarely out duel lucy, trist, jinx, or even twitch for that matter once they have hit 4 items. Not even counting escapes. You basically rely on your mage/assassin by that point.

Besides if your amount of tank makes their damage hit you for the same percentage of health as you hit them, they win on lifesteal alone.

Not to mention that even if the tank/bruiser can trade evenly with the ADC, the ADC can take out turrets and Dragon/Baron much faster. There is also the issue of at which the battles finish. At level 10 a duel might last 5~~6 seconds. At level 18 the duel would last more along the liens of 3~~4. This is a huge difference when the bruiser needs 1~2 seconds just to close the gap. Then you think about kits like Tristana's Buster + Rocket Jump or Vayne's Invisible Tumble + Condemn + Blade of the Ruined King and face palm.