This is why Warrior does not have a passive effect.

Elite4Runner··4 votes·647 views

It's actually quite simple. It all comes down to how easy it is for AD based champions to clear camps during the early to mid laning phase vs mages or tanks. In most cases a mage will walk into the jungle at the start of the game with single, maybe double digits worth of AP. Also they mostly need to rely on longer cooldowns and insufficient resource pools to dish out their more reliable damage. Lets face it, mages are made to farm in a lane where they can patiently wait for their own minions to absorb and deal enough damage for them to last hit with an auto attack. That simply isn't possible in the jungle. Tanks have a better shot at out tanking jungle camps, but even they don't have enough damage output on their own to effectively clear. AD based champions who are effective junglers not only deal significantly more reliable damage from their auto attacks, which do not require a cooldown or resource, but their abilities often allow for AD scaling on AOEs, DOTs, CC, Buffs/Debuffs, and auto attack resets/empowerment. On average, by the time they have completed their jungle item, they do not need an additional passive to clear camps, instead they are just farming and ganking. Therefor, by giving Runic Echos and Cinderhulk junglers a power spike it helps to catch them up to the Warrior junglers.

Some of you may have noticed that I did not include Devourer. This is because it is a bit of an exception. It also works well AD based champions in the sense that its strength comes from auto attacking. However, the reason why I feel this works well is because it requires the player to clear camps or gank effectively enough to evolve it into Sated Devourer, which usually happens around the time where the laning phase is ending. This means they will get their power spike a bit later compared to the other three enchantments, but when paired with the proper champion and items, this is one of the strongest jungle items, in my opinion.

As always, comments are encouraged. I am also aware that there are likely to be exceptions to everything I said, and please feel free to point them out.

13 Comments

Old Man Teeto4 votes

I agree mages Elise are Gragas poor at Nidalee clearing Zac the jungle.

RespectPlus3 votes

just nida and sometimes elise are built as mages

Elite4Runner1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Old Man Teeto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wytgUuOE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-05T23:25:24.289+0000)

I agree mages Elise are Gragas poor at Nidalee clearing Zac the jungle.

The sarcasm Ezreal

Elise, has an auto attack reset and built in attack speed boost on her spiderlings who can also tank damage. Her Q also deals %HP damage which is nothing to laugh at. She is also built AD in many cases because of the abilities that I just mentioned. These alone do not give her an excessively strong early game when building AP, but they definitely make her more able to reach her power spike faster and safer.

Nidalee's biggest strength early game is her ability to swap to cougar form to deal reliable damage on very low cool downs that do not cost mana. She also has a good heal which gives her an attack speed boost.

Gragas, .. I am not a Gragas player, but from what I can see of his abilities he doesn't have that amazing of AP scaling but he does have ridiculously strong passive for sustain, especially if he is built with HP (I know of another jungle item that gives a lot of HP). He has an ability that gives damage reduction and deals % max HP damage. .. Honestly I don't see him being as strong with AP as HP. I personally wouldn't see him being strong with AD either, but if he simply had decent AD and a decent amount of HP, he could simply cycle his abilities and stay healthy enough to clear well enough.

Zac , .. also not one of my commonly used champs, but he has no resource other than his own health, but lets look at the abilities, AOE + slow, AOE +% Max HP, AOE + knock up, and AOE + slow + knockback. So yeah, AD Zac would still be effective without an additional effect because all of his abilities already deal AOE damage with fairly low cooldowns and % current HP resource (which essentially means as long as you aren't dead), ... oh yeah, and a death passive.

Kyrrion3 votes

There's also the fact that 60 AD and 10% CDR is good by itself.

Compared to the relatively paltry 60 AP on Runic Echoes, which would require a secondary effect anyway due to AP itemization as a whole working like that. Deathcap gives bonus AP, Morello's gives CDR, mana regen, and grevious wounds, so on and so forth. AP items aren't ever truly just AP items, and can't be balanced as such.

Cinderhulk needs a secondary effect because believe it or not tank-junglers still need to clear their camps and having an extra chunk of health generally doesn't do much towards that end. Also mirrors Sunfire Cape, which has always been a tank thing so really Cinderhulk is just jungle Sunfire. Not an issue.

Devourer needs a secondary effect because any item that just has attack speed on it just sucks. Sorry, but it's true. Even attack speed items with secondary boosts are generally weaker and have been removed because they can't really fill any niche (Zephyr's, Madred's Bloodrazer, and somewhat Wriggle's Lantern... god I miss Wriggle's).

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

After they removed the armor penetration it's better to just switch to youmuu later on o.o It's a good item but AD champs just scale/clear too well already and the only AD items it could be a mini ver. of are sheen/hydra items and that would gut any iceborn/triforce users or be too strong of a clear even if it's AD was 20-30 as a minihydra.

If anything riot should TEST a mini-hydra warrior item but it's AD would have to really be low.

I have a suggestion for a hydra warrior http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M0AGGRxB-jungle-items But again it'd need testing and probably would be nerfed more than even I nerfed it.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

The issue is that Warrior ends up being neigh worthless. It amounts to a stat stick that doesn't offer that much. Some people trade their Warrior item in if they reach a super late point for something more useful, like an Infinity Edge.

I'd gladly trade some of the AD on Warrior for a cool effect that remains useful at every stage of the game.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

After they removed the armor penetration it's better to just switch to youmuu later on o.o It's a good item but AD champs just scale/clear too well already and the only AD items it could be a miniver. of are sheen/hydra items and that would gut any iceborn/triforce user or be too strong of a clear even if it's AD was 20-30 as a minihydra.

If anything riot should TEST a mini-hydra warrior item but it's AD would have to really be low. I have a suggestion for a mini-hydra:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/M0AGGRxB-jungle-items

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

The issue is that Warrior ends up being neigh worthless. It amounts to a stat stick that doesn't offer that much. Some people trade their Warrior item in if they reach a super late point for something more useful, like an Infinity Edge.

I'd gladly trade some of the AD on Warrior for a cool effect that remains useful at every stage of the game.

The effect from other enchantments is meant to improve their ability to jungle, again with the exception of Sated Devourer. So if the Warrior enchantment were to have an evolved state, say 'Legendary Warrior' which has an added effect, I would be all for that, but that would mean that there has to be some kind of stacking factor.

LilxPaprika2 votes

solution give warrior negative damage to jungle Kappa

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

It's actually quite simple. It all comes down to how easy it is for AD based champions to clear camps during the early to mid laning phase vs mages or tanks. In most cases a mage will walk into the jungle at the start of the game with single, maybe double digits worth of AP. Also they mostly need to rely on longer cooldowns and insufficient resource pools to dish out their more reliable damage. Lets face it, mages are made to farm in a lane where they can patiently wait for their own minions to absorb and deal enough damage for them to last hit with an auto attack. That simply isn't possible in the jungle. Tanks have a better shot at out tanking jungle camps, but even they don't have enough damage output on their own to effectively clear. AD based champions who are effective junglers not only deal significantly more reliable damage from their auto attacks, which do not require a cooldown or resource, but their abilities often allow for AD scaling on AOEs, DOTs, CC, Buffs/Debuffs, and auto attack resets/empowerment. On average, by the time they have completed their jungle item, they do not need an additional passive to clear camps, instead they are just farming and ganking. Therefor, by giving Runic Echos and Cinderhulk junglers a power spike it helps to catch them up to the Warrior junglers.

Some of you may have noticed that I did not include Devourer. This is because it is a bit of an exception. It also works well AD based champions in the sense that its strength comes from auto attacking. However, the reason why I feel this works well is because it requires the player to clear camps or gank effectively enough to evolve it into Sated Devourer, which usually happens around the time where the laning phase is ending. This means they will get their power spike a bit later compared to the other three enchantments, but when paired with the proper champion and items, this is one of the strongest jungle items, in my opinion.

As always, comments are encouraged. I am also aware that there are likely to be exceptions to everything I said, and please feel free to point them out.

Mage junglers actually clear faster than most AD junglers since camps have almost no MR and some even have negative MR.

Duke Anax1 votes

They also have cooldowns. While they can do some substantial damage with their spells, early game that often is not enough to clear a camp and they have to finish with their weak autos, effectively taking longer.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

Mage junglers actually clear faster than most AD junglers since camps have almost no MR and some even have negative MR.

True, but not early game. They do not have enough ability to put out sustained magic damage without exhausting their resource or having to wait for longer cooldowns. Now, later in the game, most mages are able to decimate camps, I agree.

RedCyclone1 votes

Nono, you got it wrong

Ezreal This motherfucker is why it doesn't have a passive

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