Sometimes I feel like Riot has ruined champions and not given a shit about it after.

Melledoneus·May 6, 2017·178 votes·8,495 views

Remember Syndra? Before she poked you, would have to combo you, then when she ulted you would get pelted. It took some effort.

Now all she has to do is miss her whole combo, get 2 or three spheres on the field, then press the skill button.

Remember Malzahar? He was known as space-aids, and his ult was a "fuck you" to any assassin. But his laning phase was a power push of the wave in either direction, so jungler presence was effective. Now he's a crappy minionmancer that even Yorick laughs at.

How long will it take for the guys at Riot to do these champions and their players from justice? Just saying.

And I won't even get started on Shen.

250 Comments

RalanrMay 6, 201776 votes

Honestly I feel that's the salt talking. But playing Zac, I get it.

It fucking sucks.

It sucks to see abilities be made weird from what we're used to. To have to adapt to abilities that we don't agree with since we grew to love and master the older abilities.

We start thinking, "How is this better? What was wrong before?" And assume we know more about the champion than Riot. We played them a lot after all, who else would know them better?

I like class updates, but I won't ignore that they've left some champions in worse states that only a full VGU will solve. That's why I want Mordekaiser after Eve. Because goddamn it we need proof that Riot will fix their mistakes with giving them the attention that they need.

MelledoneusMay 6, 201726 votes

It is salt talking, but it's justified. When your champion gets nerfed into unplayable status because of a broken mechanic exploited in the LCS, you know for a fact that Riot is burying their mistakes by making the champion horrible to play.

RalanrMay 6, 20177 votes

Again, which is why I'm pretty much seeing Mordekaiser's full VGU as a second coming of sorts.

Malicious MetalMay 6, 201730 votes

{quoted}

I like class updates, but I won't ignore that they've left some champions in worse states that only a full VGU will solve. That's why I want Mordekaiser after Eve. Because goddamn it we need proof that Riot will fix their mistakes with giving them the attention that they need.

Pls.

MelledoneusMay 6, 201719 votes

Mord's VGU is something I await with open arms along with Shen's inevitable second rework and Ryze's fourth.

Dominick DestineMay 6, 201744 votes

I liked old Malzahar.

I understand why he was reworked though, he was the least interactive champ in the game with his perma-wave push and knock-down ult, but goddamnit, that's not a bad thing. He was/is slow and very vulnerable with no hard disables aside from his ult.

I can't see myself ever using current malzahar.... his old minions were a nice little bonus that you were happy to have, now they're one of the core basis of his kit (WHY?!). gg Riot

MelledoneusMay 6, 201717 votes

After his rework he was fun to play. I didn't care much for the passive, but the E-W combo that pushed a wave to create an army of voidlings was awesome and would catch people by surprise.

But now he just feels wrong. Everywhere. I never played old Malz save for once, but the current state he is in is unjustified.

HellpyreMay 6, 201712 votes

I really liked him right after his rework. He played differently than before, but at least he had a clear focus in his minions. Now that they got nerfed into the ground, he just lacks any really central mechanic to be engaging. He's gone back to being an ult-bot, which I gathered to be the problem Riot wanted fixed when they updated his kit.

devdev463May 6, 201716 votes

This is how I always felt about xerath. Before his rework he had to root in place to get bonus range on all of his abilities and I loved him. He was played a lot by a couple pros and I absolutely loved his root mechanic, but because most people found him boring they decided to turn him into another ziggs. Completely ruined his identity when all he needed was a passive that made sense.

I've moved on and I'm less salty about it now, but the xerath rework is one my least favorite rework of all time and I understand how people feel when their mains are ripped away from them and turned I to just another champion, or a unrecognizable monstrosity like morde.

IceKingChernobogMay 6, 201713 votes

Zac just joined the shitty reworks club....

SaevumMay 7, 20174 votes

Maokai Welcome.

IceKingChernobogMay 7, 20173 votes

I now know how Malzahar Mordekaiser Cassiopeia fans feel.

ZadloBoze2010PLMay 6, 201710 votes

Skarner Rengar

The DeckownerMay 7, 201710 votes

Now they are gonna ruin Sejuani Maokai and Zac. Sejuani by making her a stupid single target lockdown bot with broken numbers, then nerf her number and she become useless. Maokai by making him not a tank anymore. Zac by adding weird gimmick.

Valor BotMay 7, 201710 votes

I don't think I'll ever not miss playing as http://i.imgur.com/YNlF5xY.png" . Quinn as a champion has never felt as fun or complete since they removed him with the rework :(

The Lost MarblesMay 6, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Remember Syndra? Before she poked you, would have to combo you, then when she ulted you would get pelted. It took some effort.

Now all she has to do is miss her whole combo, get 2 or three spheres on the field, then press the skill button.

What changed here, just curious? Her ult's damage hasn't been changed at all since the patch right after her release. Just bugfixes and a cooldown increase.

o0O Madoka O0oMay 6, 201718 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Lost Marbles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wu60NfBZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-06T19:22:08.413+0000)

What changed here, just curious? Her ult's damage hasn't been changed at all since the patch right after her release. Just bugfixes and a cooldown increase.

Her R didn't change, but her R uses all her balls, and his Q got an extended duration at rank5, which makes it much easier to pull off 6 balls ult.

The Lost MarblesMay 6, 201714 votes

[{quoted}](name=o0O Madoka O0o,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wu60NfBZ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-05-06T19:25:21.181+0000)

Her R didn't change, but her R uses all her balls, and his Q got an extended duration at rank5, which makes it much easier to pull off 6 balls ult.

Makes sense. If you want to inject skill back into Syndra, there's an easy fix.

R: Unleashed Power

Passive: Dark Spheres that hit at least one enemy champion, on cast or by the effect of another of Syndra's abilities, become charged.

Active: Syndra bombards a target enemy champion with the three Dark Spheres orbiting her plus any charged Dark Spheres on the field, dealing Magic Damage per sphere.

Now you have to actually hit your target with the spheres beforehand to use them for your ult, since the given issue seems to be not needing to land your combo to ult.

MelledoneusMay 6, 20177 votes

This is a wonderful idea.

WinTheWarOnPantsMay 6, 201711 votes

That's a terrible idea lol

MelledoneusMay 6, 20172 votes

Seemingly. But why not consider it?

WinTheWarOnPantsMay 6, 20178 votes

cause then you can only ult people you hit with Q aka if you have multiple targets and you finish off or attack another enemy with Q then you a totally fuked from fighting any of the other enemies. Can you not imagine how inanely frustrating that would be? not to mention that she would be completely worthless against mobile champs and her winrate against yasuo would be like 5% lol Just revert the Stupid Q rework(something all syndra players have wanted since before it was released) and there's no problem. plus how would that make any sense thematically?

MelledoneusMay 6, 20174 votes

I see now. Yeah, that would be dumb.

WinTheWarOnPantsMay 6, 20177 votes

"Overlord Forte" made a post before the rework was released asking riot not to go through with the horrible rework and why it was a terrible idea. They ignored him and everyone else of course, and she ended up exactly how everyone(except riot) feared she would.

MelledoneusMay 7, 20175 votes

Gee, never heard that story before...

Sraeg2013May 6, 20175 votes

I'd only ever consider something like this, if Spheres successfully used by other spells counted too - Force of Will (W) hit and Scatter the Weak (E) stunned.

Otherwise it's a terrible idea.

Not to mention spell shield effects would double tax her. First a Sphere's damage being completely negated, two a sphere not becoming usable for Unleashed Power.

Scary DoorMay 6, 20179 votes

They did a decent job with Poppy and Sion, everything else was either underwhelming or absolutely garbage.

Ryze: Original Ryze (as much as people may have disliked him) was the healthiest of them all in the trilogy of remakes. The current iteration requires either a completely stupid opponent or Ryze to get ahead via jungle ganks to be remotely effective... otherwise you just spam spells that do literally no damage and have an ult that is not overly satisfying at best.

Kog'Maw: The rework that Riot had to revert. That says it all... although I personally liked it and thought that was one of those champions that required you to end the game early or watch out. Kog wasn't an auto-win champ, but certainly could demolish teams late game.

Morde: Absolutely awful. Morde mains pretty much weap everytime it's brought up. Trying to force a melee champ bot lane was a mistake, giving him a pet dragon was---creative---but a mistake overall as it didn't compensate for his odd nerfs and overall playstyle change. Mordekeiser has no room in league of mobility unless he has good damage, which he no longer has.

Garen: A gimmicky ult and armor shred (which actually came later on) with his spin, combined with an odd farming tool to stack armor on his W. Garen's issues are still many. I saw that the number one Garen player in NA has decided to give up on his champion after years of play simply because it became too frustrating.

Skarner: Was overtuned to a ridiculous end for a week (65% winrate) then hotfixed...

and the list goes on...

LooknookMay 6, 20174 votes

To be fair to Riot, Sion and Poppy were reworks while Morde, Skarner, Koggles and Malz were Updates. Two totally different kinds of projects with vastly different resources and goals.

ExternalLinkMay 6, 20179 votes

Mordekaiser Rengar KogMaw Skarner Nidalee I mean I guess they did revert Kog... and in regards to Nidalee, not the rework itself but rather that one patch where they decided fuck it, let's make Nidalee capable of hunting Jungle monsters and watch the world burn! Tbh, any rework or change that relies on a cheap gimmick fails. Shaco Actually, gonna add this mtfer here too because I personally hate him, but for some reason he's now allowed to be FoTM, have one of the highest jungle win rates, and this shitty bruiser build that lets him do tons of damage while being tanky and slippery enough to be virtually unkillable. OH, and he now scales to boot. Meanwhile Eve... My hate for Shaco burns with the force of a 1000 salty pre-rengo-rework ADC mains.

Overlord ForteMay 6, 20178 votes

I'm not sure what your point about Syndra is? They fixed the infinite sphere stacking problem with her W change to True Damage. She only has +2 seconds to sphere life timer now from her Q, and I'm still on the fence about it or not. It can probably be removed for another mechanic to enable her 7th sphere ultimate.

Even before level 9, I still get complaints about the 'skill button' pre-level 9 (the point at which the MYMU did literally nothing but damage increases on her Q and E). She is as close to her original form as possible considering her Q. Everything else is bandwagoning.

VizulixMay 6, 20178 votes

Support. The trash can for failed reworks.

Did you know that Zac has been played as a support in Korean Challenger after his shitty mini-rework?

Sejuani is going to get nerfed into the ground.

Ivern still is sitting at a 57% win rate while Azir and Zac have 40% win rate.

Good Job Rito Balancing Team

Dusk Mane RengarMay 7, 20178 votes

Rengar says hi.

MelledoneusMay 7, 20174 votes

No, he doesn't, because he knows it isn't worth it to jump out of his ult anymore.

AmazoXMay 7, 20177 votes

And then there's Warwick who's got the best VGU from CertainlyT that is 110% balanced. <3

HarrisonOwnsMay 7, 20172 votes

I love this rework, but it needs some love taps. (Oldschool Warwick player)

The ult is wonky as fuck. I've gone right through people more times than I can count.

Q needs some QOL taps. It's weird and unwieldy sometimes.

The W and E are great. I love them.

AmazoXMay 7, 20174 votes

The ult is pretty weird at times, If you miss a pixel, You fail to land the ult, Meanwhile Lux & Morgana's hit boxes are too good.

AtheosisXMay 6, 20176 votes

The issue to me is that mini-reworks almost never work. Full reworks are more like new champs and they tend to be fine except for the unfortunate effect of the original versions being deleted. Mini-reworks are almost all awkward, janky, and problematic.

Auntie WhispersMay 7, 20176 votes

Now it's Zac. I have over 520k experience with him and I can't bring that champion into ranked again, not with that ult

Blade of JusticMay 6, 20175 votes

I actually really didn't like Sion's rework.

If they kept his old ult, I would have given it a 10/10.

MelledoneusMay 6, 201717 votes

I have to disagree with that one. Sion's rework is one of my favorites, they really nailed it down to a tee.

ParoeMay 6, 20175 votes

{quoted}

I have to disagree with that one. Sion's rework is one of my favorites, they really nailed it down to a tee.

Sions relaunch was needed, i just wish they had given us a traditional skin with his good VO. I hate how edgy riots become.

ModAcademy KaynMay 7, 20177 votes

good VO

https://i.gyazo.com/bd81c5eb819046722e088861bf5a6f68.png

Sure...

Troll for TrumpMay 7, 201710 votes

The memes in his VO are more dead than old Sion

BellowsMay 7, 20175 votes

I knew they wouldnt give a fuck after they touch certain champs. I would go back to maining Skarner RIGHT NOW, if he was reverted with a numbers change to make him more balanced. Or a cd on the stun passive. Thats literally all he needed. Instead they completely RUINED him.

Off Meta EvanMay 7, 20175 votes

honestly i feel you even on the reworks that are actually healthy. Gangplank is a fun champion that i have put a ton of hours into... but he's not the same gp as before. Old gp was a brain dead click shot crit master that legitmently did nothing until level 18. now gp is this pretty high mechanical wacky mix of minigames that while fun, are nothing like old GP

PredatoratorMay 7, 20175 votes

Skarner followup post 10 months ago or so....and then nothing.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/T5MTYIIt-followup-skarner-juggernaut-update

Arkadije95May 7, 20175 votes

Sometimes I feel like Riot has ruined champions and not given a shit about it after. A perfect way to describe Aatrox and Mordekaiser. Oh well, like Rito cares. We need more interesting champions instead of listening to the people who play the game and fix the champions they want to play. Rito 10/10 Aatrox is fine and Mordekaiser is fun. Fuck you cuz we care - Rito.

redfeenixMay 7, 20174 votes

I hate when Riot fucks around with my favourite champions.

Their changes of Shen, GP, and now ZAC have left me completely isolated. I hate Riot for ruining my favourite champions, and thats the reason I havnt played League in a while.

Its like they get an intern to make random fkn changes to champions..... and publish that shit without any testing.