We need Banshee's and GA back as counters to assassins that is open to everyone.

Irelia Bot··64 votes·15,755 views

https://66.media.tumblr.com/b8280be47e660da3045909c7735eaa16/tumblr_mmfstp0Sz31re04pso1_500.jpg

And just because the AP + MR item would be gone does not mean another can not be created.

Making GA and Banshee's which were both defensive items commonly picked up by anyone to deal with an enemy threat attached to AD and AP is one of the biggest problems the game has compared how it use to be.

In patch 7.9 GA and BV were both changed from being reactionary full defensive items to GA having AD, armor and the revive passive and BV having AP, MR, CDR and a spell shield that recharges ater 45 seconds.

Enemy Leblanc blowing you up? Build a Banshe's and get some MR and a shield to block her first spell You will have a much better chance of surviving.

Malphite building Full AP and one shooting you with zero chance of counterplay due to his ult being unstopable? Build a Banshee's veil.

We need counter building back in the game. That is likely the single biggest thing the game has lost that is a truly negative impact.

It wasn't like BV was OP outside of a few patches in I think it was season 3 where you would literally see 10 of them in an hour long Athene's restoring mana faster than you can use it game but it was a necessary form of counterplay that made some champs fall off at some point instead of being a constant threat you could do nothing about outside of hope your team could peel.

The thing is that trying to pop the enemy squishies banshee's makes jsut going in and one shotting them require some actual planning.

Yes this will require marksmen to go back to building a purely defensive item if they see an enemy as a threat they can otherwise not contend with. And in turn it will counteract damage creep to some degree but not all the way due to keystones also adding to it.

72 Comments

Woodakoodashooda21 votes

ADC's whined for years that they wanted an AD variant to Zhonya's; so, Riot granted them their wish by making GA into what it is today.

Not sure why they changed Banshee's.

Oh, that's right, because they hate defense.

Emo Twink2 votes

Abyssal Mask and Banshee's passives did make more sense swapped to be fair. A tank wouldn't need to have a spell shield, and AP champs that could get in range made abyssal super strong.

LordGeovanni9 votes

Tanks and bruisers very much like that spell shield which can help stop the coutners to their engage rather than having their engage negated by some one 600 range away and having more defense out of the items than you had as a melee and getting a large amout damage too.

Emo Twink1 votes

Yea that does make sense. And to be fair it's not tanks having banshees that I have an issue with, it was stuff like Fizz and LB building abyssal to both do damage more and nullify their AP opponent's damage well. That sort of item suited a tank that does AP damage, or on an AP heavy team.

LordGeovanni1 votes

One of the biggest problem i had a problem with is when riot made banshees cooldown rest if you took damage like a big F U to front line fighters telling them to wait outside the fight for 40seconds if It got poked off as if 40 seconds isnt a super long time to give up every opportunity to engage. just because some random people were feeling bad that tanks decided to fight when their banshees was 12-8 seconds off cooldown and they feel cheated because it felt random that banshes would come up and block something but tanks have to sit through item 3026 and item 3157 while they have to give up their already low non scaling damage to use item 3193 with the condition of needing enemies around.

Flawless Fetus4 votes

"We want a 2 second on demand stasis that has a relatively low cool down too".

"OK. Here. Now if you die, you can revive. Just like you could with the old version of this item. Except now it has a 5 minute cd. You're welcome!"

Lol.

Śhunpo10 votes

Counter assassins? More like counter mages and tanks/supports, cause that's what Banshee's was used for at least. To counter assassins you have to position properly, and keep track of them. Also GA counters assassins even without the MR. The fact that you have a 2nd life is beyond broken against assassins.

I'd be down for bringing them back though, just revert Abyssal Mask please or make a new AP+MR item.

Irelia Bot4 votes

It still made assassins often unable to kill without popping it first.

Śhunpo5 votes

Oh no the assassin has to use ONE of their abilities to pop Banshee's, it's not like they'll kill you with their other 3-5 abilities. It was and is an item designed to counter mages, supports and tanks since they often NEED to hit that initial CC ability to kill.

GA I can agree with though, the older variation was definitely more healthy and versatile stat-wise.

Akali is SO HOT15 votes

You are highly underestimating the impact of losing a full ability in a rotation when trying to assassinate someone.

Śhunpo6 votes

Oh no Kat loses her 100 damage Shunpo. Oh no Rengar loses his 50 damage W. Oh no, Zed loses his E. Oh no, Leblanc....ok, this one I can give you since she's more like a mage. Oh no Akali loses her E or 1 Q. Oh no Talon....I'll give you this one as well. Oh no Shaco loses his E which does no damage anyways. Oh no Evelynn....again, I can give you this one. Oh no Ekko loses his 1st stack of Q, he now has to auto once more to kill you, woop dee doo. Oh no, Kha loses a Q which will come back up in 1 second or his W which he doesn't care about.

In the examples above such as Kat all that assassin player needs to do is use their least relevant ability for damage and then unload the rest of their kit. Kat especially does not care about the Banshee's passive, at least not as much as the MR. Wow, she loses her Shunpo which has an 0.25 AP scaling and an awful base damage, that's totally gonna save you from the dagger nuke that comes next of 700+ damage. Plus, Akali can pop it with Gunblade, as can Kat. Leblanc can pop it with a Luden's bounce off of creeps. Zed can pop it by just being patient.

So no, Banshee's passive is not designed to counter assassins, it's designed to counter initiation based abilities. Such abilities as Lux Q, Morgana Q, Blitzcrank Q, Maokai ult, Malphite ult, Zyra etc. Any pick-based CC ability in the game you can think of, Banshee's counters it.

You're really overestimating how useful Banshee's is, and even when it's useful against assassins it only takes ONE rogue ability from one of their teammates to pop it, resulting in you not having its passive and being semi-defenseless for 40 seconds. Oh, and that gets refreshed if you get hit again. Banshee's is kinda just a bad item unless it's against Eve or LB tbh, cause Eve quite literally just pop it with W and popping it herself will likely get her killed.

Don't be looking at Banshee's when you want a counter to assassins, look at GA, general health items (Sterak's, Mallet, Cleaver), resistance-based items (e.g. Randuin's 4th-5th item on an ADC when vs a fed Zed). There are options, it just means you have to stop net-building for once and use your brain to adapt your build on a game by game basis. Maybe building full damage against assassins who are designed to obliterate squishies isn't the smartest thing in the world.

In saying all of this, I will say myself that I personally do not like the current Banshee's and GA, I liked their older variations a lot better since pure defensive items beat out hybrid offensive+defensive options bundled into one as that concept is simply dysfunctional in terms of game balance, especially the current GA on ADCs.

DepressedAhri2 votes

Okay, I'm going to tell you exactly why your argument is wrong. You are talking for ADCs, which, yes, GA is good on. But AP champions can no longer build GA without being called a troll because it now builds out of a BF sword. This whole post is about only being able to build one or the other, when you used to be able to build both. This post is not about weak ADCs.

Śhunpo3 votes

"I liked their older variations a lot better...."

Read please. I know that it sucks that you can't build both now, hence why I dislike the current GA.

Also you can still build it tbh, people just don't want to cause that's not what the Koreans do

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Nyarlathοtep

Since when can mages opt to full defensive items and remain successful?

Śhunpo2 votes

item 3001 item 3025 item 3047 item 3143 Viktor

LordGeovanni1 votes

Mages have always been able to do that you just cant look for success in the same way as a traditional mage. but you can sure as hell function as a tank with poke that can opt into the front line at any time and get away with their live because they have more relyable excapes and cc.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Shit not you again. sigh

Mages have always been able to do that you just cant look for success in the same way as a traditional mage

???? Based ON WHAT? Because frankly you cant prove they can be fine when you lack the evidence to do so, PLUS there is no statistics to back you up. I dont either. However i have my personal experience. In all my years playing lol IVE NEVER seen a mage buy dedicated tank items (or i might have seen but the times must be so low that i dont remember).

but you can sure as hell function as a tank with poke that can opt into the front line at any time and get away with their live because they have more relyable excapes and cc.

THE FUCK YOU ARE EVEN BLABBING ABOUT? Did you just called A MAGE A FUCKING TANK? Also, IF A MAGE OPTS DEDICATED TANK ITEMS he is going to the following problem, HE DEALS LOW DAMAGE. In my turf there is a certain phrase, one equals none.

And em, HOW THE FUCK DO MAGES HAVE MORE RELIABLE ESCAPES? IN WHICH WORLD? ARE YOU EVEN AUTHORISED TO SAY SUCH BULLSHITS? oke you know what im going pull this card because i cant really stand this anymore but, you were and still are a bronze. Now i know that everyone has the right to have an opinion and whatnot but, MY GOD PLEASE before you comment ANYTHING do a bit of research. I MEAN FFS ITS NOT DIFFICULT TAKE QUICK LOOK AT ALL MAGES and deduce that actually barring one or two they have no escapes AT ALL.

Last but not fucking-least mages DONT HAVE (there are some exceptions) reliable cc. Most of them have their cc in skillshots, and skillshots by nature are unreliable (most of the times). I mean take the cc of lux and compare it to leona. Or take lissandra's cc and compare it to nautilus. Now tell me who has more reliable cc (and please before you answer just for the sake of my sanity go take a look at their kits).

LordGeovanni1 votes

In my years of playing i have been the mage building dedicated tank items and it has even been meta several times not just on me but in the meta on Morgana Karthus Veigar Velkoz Sona Orianna same thing appliles if you want to do it with Lux but because full damage is better and just killing people is better you act as if defense 'can't work'. Being the best and being able to work are not mutuality exclusive. I never called any mages tanks i said that they can work in the roles of tanks

LordGeovanni1 votes

I forgot the biggest one Swain along with Kennen

Nyarlathοtep

Down there in bronze everything is viable. In the mmr that im around NO ONE tries dedicated tank items on mages (apart veigar but he is an exception because he can stack ap).

No they cant. Mages that build tank items lack the tank steroids to tank effectively. Because they build tank items they fall behind in damage, ending up having shitty dmg and shitty durability. I mean FFS REAL TANK HAVE TROUBLE BEING TANKY. What makes you think a tank item is going to do ON A SQUISHY MAGE?

LordGeovanni1 votes

and when it was meta plat+ as they are the people who actually dictate the meta not bronze players who follow the meta?

Nyarlathοtep

for the love of god IT WAS NEVER META MAGES BUYING DEDICATED TANK ITEMS.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Despite the fact that if you want to be in denial viktor was just doing it the last 2 months and if you want to see clearly viktor is still currently doing it. Kennen and Swain still do it. I'll admit that there is no meta where every mage picked tank items which is what you seem to be thinking that im saying and that by saying that its possible for mages to function with tank items that means that they will pick them as full tank all the time without exception. But to say that the champs i listed never used to build tank items you have either just started playing this game this week or you have very selective memory. Im also not saying its bad that mages build defensive items i just think that mages have too strong peel. If a mage has a tank item they are no longer a squishy mage (not that mages are squishy in the first place with 2700 base hp pools and hybride damage defensive items. to go along with their super safe long range and any combination of shields mobility and cc.) Hell season there there were no damage champs in the game mages adcs assassin that didnt build at least one defensive item . item 3026 item 3065 item 3143 item 3110 item 3022 all dedicated tank items at the time.

Andevar3 votes

Agreed. As an Assassin player, seeing a GA is probably one of the most demoralizing things in the game. Not only is your full burst pretty much countered by a single item, but you have to factor in the enemy support that's stopping you from killing the GA holder in the first place.

And even if you succeed, you get a 30 second ult timer before you can kill their GA holder again while they can get right back up and shit on everyone.

H1de on blue2 votes

{quoted}

Counter assassins? More like counter mages and tanks/supports, cause that's what Banshee's was used for at least. To counter assassins you have to position properly, and keep track of them. Also GA counters assassins even without the MR. The fact that you have a 2nd life is beyond broken against assassins.

I'd be down for bringing them back though, just revert Abyssal Mask please or make a new AP+MR item.

Is the new GA a good item on Lux ?

Fire Blaustoise3 votes

item 3157 is enough.... assuming you have a good positionning (despite whats this board say, this item is strong).

KennysDreamGirl1 votes

not really because it has ad on it now

AirKingNeo2 votes

No... because Assassins aren't meta.

H1de on blue8 votes

{quoted}

No... because Assassins aren't meta.

"Akali Leblanc aren't meta"

k

Gravesinger5 votes

Zed Ekko Evelynn Kassadin

laughs in k

AirKingNeo1 votes

and only kassadin of those you mentioned is actually meta.

Gravesinger2 votes

gonna have to go with a strong disagree on that one, Ekko and Zed are less common but Evelynn is like turbo-meta

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ainz Ooal Gainz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtimjBLv,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-16T23:30:00.593+0000)

gonna have to go with a strong disagree on that one, Ekko and Zed are less common but Evelynn is like turbo-meta

She really isn't. Eve does well only because people play stupidly.

Gravesinger1 votes

Eve does well

so you're saying she's meta

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ainz Ooal Gainz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtimjBLv,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-17T19:25:06.069+0000)

so you're saying she's meta

Are you trolling or are you naturally so obtuse that a discussion is entirely pointless with you?

She is so meta, she totally is pick or ban. Oh wait.

Gravesinger1 votes

I was being obtuse because you were acting like a dumbass. She's 14th of 50 champions in terms of pick rate in jungle and 8th in terms of ban rate. Hardly broken or overpowered, perhaps, but still plenty viable; thus, a meta champion.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ainz Ooal Gainz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtimjBLv,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T00:08:22.481+0000)

I was being obtuse because you were acting like a dumbass.

Someone who names themselves after an anime character during to a lack of creativity should not be throwing stones at someone.

She's 14th of 50 champions in terms of pick rate in jungle and 8th in terms of ban rate. Hardly broken or overpowered, perhaps, but still plenty viable; thus, a meta champion.

Such a misleading statement. Bring up their ranking relative to others is it accurate, and why did you ignore win rate?

Champion.gg for.plat + Has her 28th win rate or 49.66 percent. Pick rate of 3.36 at 14th place. Ban rate of 1.36.

She isn't even a top 10 jungler win rate wise, and her pick rate and bankrate are rather low. Q Who is above her?

Lee, Khan, kayne, camille, graves, yin, xin and jax for the top 8 picks.

All of them except Lee and camille have a better win rate, but the former makes up 17% of the pick rate and the latter is 6%. Compated to 3.36.

Yeah, very meta. So meta jax is 100% or so more likely to eat a ban with a significantly better win rate.

So meta that Lee sin remains the most popular.

She isn't meta, she is just viable, and those two are exclusive terms. You would know this if you paid attention to school instead of being a weeaboo.

Gravesinger1 votes

First off, you either recognized the character name or Googled it- not to mention, it does have a slight modification. Yeah, not exactly a fucking glorious bastion of creativity, but hey, neither is "Bears Don't Care". Also, not sure what school you went to, but at mine I actually learned career-relevant skills, not the vernacular of league champion status. Also, given your complete inability to form a coherent sentence (during to? Really?) I don't think you've got the right to be throwing stones, either. I named my account in reference to something I enjoyed, sue me. There are a lot worse things I could be doing with my time than occasionally watching an anime I like.

So, fine. Evelynn is not meta. I concede that point. I did not see the winrate when I looked up the pick/ban rate. Doesn't help that I also saw a lot more of her when I was last playing regularly, but given that was over a month ago, I should've given that additional consideration.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ainz Ooal Gainz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtimjBLv,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T15:49:17.979+0000)

Also, not sure what school you went to, but at mine I actually learned career-relevant skills, not the vernacular of league champion status.

As a comeback this made actually no sense whatsoever. As the vernacular is not exclusive towards League as a whole. In terms of education and career, that is a weak argument because you have nothing to base it off of, and you are not equipped to make such an assumption compared to my assumption of your name.

Also, given your compete inability to form a coherent sentence (during to? Really?) I don't think you've got the right to be throwing stones, either. I named my account in reference to something I enjoyed, sue me. There are a lot worse things I could be doing with my time than occasionally watching an anime I like.

oh snap, a grammatical reference! Truly, I am wounded.

So, fine. Evelynn is not meta. I concede that point. I did not see the winrate when I looked up the pick/ban rate. Doesn't help that I also saw a lot more of her when I was last playing regularly, but given that was over a month ago, I should've given that additional consideration.

Meta essentially means they define the way the game is played. Viability simply refers to how well they perform in said meta.

Gravesinger1 votes
  1. It does, given your claim that I didn't or don't pay attention to school, thus explaing why I "didn't know the difference" between viable and meta.
  2. Wounded enough to notice and reply to it.
  3. I know what the terms mean. My conclusion was based on inaccurate data, which I stated. If she had a WR >50.5%, I would still call her meta, even though she's not the very highest in pick or ban percentage.

Not to mention, you might be the most pompous asshole I've had the misfortune of running into on here. Not only did you start the fight, but you still had to get the last word in even after I conceded the actual point just to get away from you. I'd much rather be deemed a weaboo than an insufferable twit the likes of you.

This will be my last reply in this thread. I suggest you go try to bait someone more interested.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ainz Ooal Gainz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wtimjBLv,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T20:26:31.379+0000)

  1. It does, given your claim that I didn't or don't pay attention to school, thus explaing why I "didn't know the difference" between viable and meta.

The two terms are utilized in school.

  1. Wounded enough to notice and reply to it.

You mistake noticing for being wounded. In truth, I was amused.

  1. I know what the terms mean.

Where you still insisted on utilizing it in an inaccurate way.

My conclusion was based on inaccurate data, which I stated. If she had a WR >50.5%, I would still call her meta, even though she's not the very highest in pick or ban percentage.

A 50% win rate still would not be enough to dictate a champion as meta

Not to mention, you might be the most pompous asshole I've had the misfortune of running into on here.

Mmklay.

Not only did you start the fight,

I do recall someone calling another person a dumbass. Please play victim some more.

but _you still had to get the last word in

Are you not doing so now?

_ even after I conceded the actual point just to get away from you.

mmkay

I'd much rather be deemed a weaboo than an insufferable twit the likes of you.

Well, yeah, or else you wouldn't have thought you weren't wrong.

This will be my last reply in this thread. I suggest you go try to bait someone more interested.

Bye Felicia.

AirKingNeo1 votes

you named an assassin with a sub 50 winrate and a mage.

Gravesinger5 votes

To say that LeBlanc is not an assassin is asenine. She is a high-burst caster whose focus is blowing up a single target. Her AoE is backseated to her single target damage, and she has a high level of mobility and chase.

She is an assassin.

Fire Blaustoise1 votes

Leblanc isnt an assassin, she's a mage. And she's busted like most of mages atm (Akali is busted tho).

Gilgayu2 votes

Anyone remember this item 3814? Literally no one buys it anymore

KoKoboto19 votes

This is something you gotta prepare tho. It's best for assassins who plan when they go in and need to block spells

Gilgayu11 votes

{quoted}

This is something you gotta prepare tho. It's best for assassins who plan when they go in and need to block spells

I was actually hinting at the fact that assassins have so many escapes that they don't need this anymore, even the ones who need it (zed, talon) don't benefit from this item since we have so much cc in this game.

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

Talon still build it. Are you high ?? Best talons in the worlds all build this item. i think its same for Zed... but Zed is trash anyway.

Śhunpo1 votes

More like there are better item options for AD assassins.

ez mental boom1 votes

Its only purpose is to max out lethality after you get the other, more useful lethality items lol

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