They Laughed At My First Item ...

Elite4Runner··6 votes·1,815 views

... And you probably would too. Hell, I probably would laugh myself, but when you hear my logic it may make a little more sense.

First off, this was a bot game because I didn't know how it was going to go. I try not to take theory crafting builds into PVP games (to be fair, I don't really play PVP all that often anyways). However, I actually think this could be kind of valid in a real game.

During champion select, I called the support role and took Jhin. This is already pretty strange to a lot of people I'm sure. My thought was that this would automatically let people know that I wasn't really looking to go ADC.

So I think I've stalled enough on the back story. The first item that I built was Liandry's Torment.

See, some of you probably are laughing. "Why would you build Liandry's Torment on Jhin"

I'll tell you.

Jhin's W, Deadly Flourish, applies spell effects as a single target ability. Liandry's Torment burns enemies for 2% of their current health per half second, for three seconds. This damage is doubled when the target's movement is impaired.

Now, this really isn't all that impressive. However, the massive range on his W means you can easily be a very annoying poke support. Pair this with the Deathfire Touch Mastery and Rylai's Crystal Scepter, your poke will be strong enough for you to begin burning down enemies health before they even get close to you.

This probably isn't even really best as a support role. It actually might be best on AP Mid Jhin, but I was actually kinda hoping to get my ADC fed like a good support, which did happen, but instead of just steamrolling bot, they started roaming. Which was fine because I was strong enough to split push.

Idk, may be stupid and completely worthless to everyone else. It definitely isn't stronger than other items, but I thought it was an interesting item + ability interaction, and the fact that the people in my game pointed it out and laughed just made me think that maybe nobody has even really considered it.

31 Comments

Dessem2 votes

the fact that the people in my game pointed it out and laughed just made me think that maybe nobody has even really considered it.

I think people have (and there's even a special Jhin voice line for it), it's just that it's nowhere near as good as alternates. AP Jhin mid sounds... pretty terrible, honestly, since only Q and E scale with AP and everything else in his kit scales heavily with AD.

Why would I want to burn people for some current health percentage when I can Crit for 1k damage, which is almost certainly going to be more damage than Liandry's will ever do?

Warlord Zudane2 votes

But... I will say this. AP Jhin would make for a good support. If you are going to take him as Mid or ADC then go AD. But as OP describes it wouldn't be too bad to play around with with a strong ADC.

Elite4Runner2 votes

{quoted}

Why would I want to burn people for some current health percentage when I can Crit for 1k damage, which is almost certainly going to be more damage than Liandry's will ever do?

Which is why I was taking this in the support role. The point isn't to go for massive amounts of damage, it is to be a lane bully. You burn your enemies down from a massive range to where your ADC can 1 shot them if they get close enough. His W is also great for locking an enemy down for this same purpose. If they never get close enough, you automatically win your lane. Also, his traps work great as built in wards. As you said, his Q and E both scale on AP, but as my OP describes, this combination causes his W to deal magic damage, which does not scale, but Deathfire Touch does scale on 25% AP and is applied as a single target ability. Oppressor also increases damage to enemies with impaired movement.

Is AD Jhin better? Absolutely, in almost every way.

Could this be viable, ... I think it could in some circumstances.

Would it be consistent enough to be a new meta? I have no doubt in my mind that it wont.

Again, I just thought this was an interesting interaction that could be used in this way.

Dessem2 votes

. You burn your enemies down from a massive range to where your ADC can 1 shot them if they get close enough. His W is also great for locking an enemy down for this same purpose. If they never get close enough, you automatically win your lane.

The issue with that logic is that Liandries costs 3200 Gold. Considering that the components before then don't do a whole lot for you (especially Haunting Guise, since only E does magic damage), you'd probably need to make 4000 Gold in order to get the Liandries up and proper; you also need a Sight Stone, and I'm not convinced it'd work out economically for a Support.

It's an interesting interaction and one I'd considered, it's just not in the slightest bit viable because the investment is too steep.

There's a reason few mages actually even opt into Liandries, even when they've got a poke pattern going. It's because Liandries is a pretty bad item relative to anything else you can get at that pricepoint.

Elite4Runner1 votes

{quoted}

There's a reason few mages actually even opt into Liandries, even when they've got a poke pattern going. It's because Liandries is a pretty bad item relative to anything else you can get at that pricepoint.

I'll definitely agree to that. I do wish that Liandry's would get some lovin'. And yes, it is definitely a steep price.

I had fun with it, which is really all that matters to me.

One thing though, Deathfire Touch deals magic damage on ALL abilities, so magic pen is still useful for this.

Sire Hippington2 votes

For the same gold you couls get item 3142 item 3147 , which will give you more poke damage on W due to arpen and the ad ratio, as well as giving alot more damage to everything else you do.

For poke support, liandrys only is good if you have a slow already on you poke or if you actually scale well of all the stats it offers. Rylais+liandrys is just to damn expensive for supports if you don't snowball.

A wierd support champ that does well with liandrys rush is MF, her E poke gets pretty massive and she scales well enough of the ap.follow it up with BC for team utillity and more ult damage and she's strangely effective as upport pick.

Elite4Runner3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Cingulum,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wrMWj1w7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-07-23T17:05:28.018+0000)

For the same gold you couls get item 3142 item 3147 , which will give you more poke damage ...

Read my last paragraph.

It has nothing to do with what does more damage. It is just an interaction that I found interesting. As a support you don't really want damage, you want to be able to harass your lane opponents.

I'll give you that they are pretty expensive.

It's just meant to be fun.

Fishtaco2 votes

This sounds fun xD I'm all for playing champs in an Off-Meta way, so I'll probably try this next. Do you take spellthief's edge as a starting item?

Elite4Runner2 votes

{quoted}

This sounds fun xD I'm all for playing champs in an Off-Meta way, so I'll probably try this next. Do you take spellthief's edge as a starting item?

I would probably go for Ancient coin, personally. I'm not sure though.

Fishtaco1 votes

Have you tried full AP pantheon mid yet ;)

BigBellBrute1 votes

The problem is there are far better champs to go that way with and there are far better ways to go with Jihn. There is a difference between going a certain way with a character in Aram because you have to due to poor character comp and deliberately picking a champ and going in a totally inferior way with it.

Elite4Runner3 votes

{quoted}

The problem is there are far better champs to go that way with and there are far better ways to go with Jihn. There is a difference between going a certain way with a character in Aram because you have to due to poor character comp and deliberately picking a champ and going in a totally inferior way with it.

Does anyone play this game for fun anymore? .. Lighten up

LordGeovanni1 votes

more hp so you dont get instagibed but not all the damage in the world so you dont take the kills from your carry how is that the totally inferior way jhin still has some ap scaleings he just wasnt intended to go ap as a main stay and if so why would riot put any ap scaleing on him at all same as ad kat with a 0.6 ad scaleing on w and 0.3 scaleing on her ult comapred to the lower ap scaleing

Hyrum Graff1 votes

It is interesting, but in pvp games you need to spend your first 4.5k gold on a locket, sightstone, gold item, and boots. (I mean sure, you can buy whatever, but if you want to win, those items are the best regardless of what champion you are playing). So pretty much, you need to be useful without items during laning phase. And Jhin... he's a D support. If your jungler ganks a lot you can snowball and he's decent, but most of the time he's not very useful without items.

Even if you rush Liandry's (or if you're mid), Jhin's W on a long cooldown and costs a lot of mana if maxed, and if you're useless in the 14 seconds between W casts, the enemy is going to force you to back off and lose farm, or fight them and lose the fight. AP jhin mid has little waveclear if he's maxing W and will get shoved into his turret.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

liandries might work against nasus or something that is stacking hp like mad... but against squishies as jhin, even as support, you are missing out on a lot of much better alternatives in order to gain a mostly insignificant advantage against tanky champs. liandries will deal an extra 10 damage maybe to some champs lol

Champion Skin3 votes

What? Nasus usually stack resistances not HP? (Because Resistances makes the lifesteal from his passive and the extra HP from his ult more effective and most CDR items he wants give resistances)

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Champion Skin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wrMWj1w7,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-07-23T20:36:07.969+0000)

What? Nasus usually stack resistances not HP? (Because Resistances makes the lifesteal from his passive and the extra HP from his ult more effective and most CDR items he wants give resistances)

maybe its cause I play irelia lol

Galío1 votes

I mean. Against an Irelia I still build standard stuff. She can't damage me hard enough early game and by the time she hits her powerspike so do I, except I do much more damage. Maybe as a 5th or 6th item I'll build some hp items but usually only a deadmans or a randuins which still give me the resistances I need. No idea what you're talking about.

Rustling Bush1 votes

sounds familar..... MissFortune

Elite4Runner1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wrMWj1w7,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-07-23T17:59:00.372+0000)

sounds familar..... MissFortune

But she doesn't have the range.

LordGeovanni1 votes

people in the game think less and less and its more about building whats strong and reactionary plays since season 4

Champion Skin1 votes

Well if you are building damage the items are just as good no matter who you are against as the highest damage build for the gold is the same almost all of the time (though for ADC's there is the option of early game power and mid game power with item 3142 item 3071 while a crit build is better late game if the game gets that far) The only ones that are situational or depend on the enemy are item 3035 and item 3135

Friendly Ram1 votes

Whats flouishes cd? Seems like fun though.

Spoofghoul1 votes

i did it with corki once on his ult rockets as support

get liandries get rylays get cleaver ofc first i got sightstone like agood support should

the idea is you give heavy poke with ult you permaslow + burn + shred a gigantic amount with gattling gun and you offer enage /catch with ult

the poke with rockets is anoying af

my build was item 3020 item 2302 item 3151 item 3116 item 3071 item 3512

very unorthodox but you singlehandedly offer enough siege potential have permaslow & armorshred to peel for adc even got decent burst with thunderlords if you wish to take it

really annoying to deal with

DænariusKhølerin1 votes

Try Ezreal supp next.

Embertine1 votes

They laughed at me when I build Triforce on Leona. Well they laughed until I Q'd them in the face and a huge chunk of their HP dissapeared.

IDreamOfJhinie1 votes

If you want to play Jhin support, tank AD is far better, and i find it funnier because NO ONE EXPECTS TANK JHIN!

Vallalan1 votes

well while you had fun and I'm glad. rylai's liandrys combo can work on literally any poke mage or caster. it doesn't mean its better than building them their primary way. Jhin simply scales way too well with AD to build him any other way. note that his abilities do PHYSICAL damage regardless of whether or not you build ap. so if you go full ap you won't have the pen for abilities that scale with ap to do damage anyway.

now if you want to cheese the enemy it can be fun. I've played AP Jhin mid for the lul. you basically stack like 5 traps in one spot and W them as they explode to the massive damage and you can cheese with good Q bounces, but thats about it. it's not viable as he is a physical damage champion who doesn't scale with mpen at all. in any form. only deathfire touch does, and deathfire with ap doesn't do that much damage. rylais/liandrys/deathfire is a known combo that works ok on a champion who already applies a dot themselves to get maximum efficiency. so like Brand or malzahar. maybe cass.

so yeah, it can be fun. its not viable as any good opponent will just abuse you, but hey league is a game. have fun.

Mysticman891 votes

His nade and traps have AP scalings that are better or comparable to the ad ones, so playing an ap jhin support has been on my to do list since release. Kind of waiting until I'm free to combine alcohol with my play so I won't feel bad about trying it in the first place. (And ideally it'd be while jhins free so I can do it on a lower MMR'd account.)

Focusing on his W (which doesn't have any AP ratio) is an unusual approach to consider, but I suppose if you want to hang way back with it it might be viable. I'd probably just put one point in it, max traps first, then nade, and then w, and focus on w'ing people whenever they step on traps for potentially serious damage with the 100% AP ratio he has.

10Tickler1 votes

I was playing a bot game, and rushed a Tear into Manamune

The Single-target Burst from just one rotation was insane.

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