Boards›Gameplay

Sightstone Necessary?

Godhri··1 votes·848 views

Hi everyone. I'm a Gold 1 mid main, but I have played support most of my lower ELO days (Silver 5-SIlver 3). I just wanted to ask everyone if they thought sightstone was still a necessary item Post-level 9 or even Pre-9.

Here is my reasoning for why I don't think it is:

  1. Main reason: All trinkets can be upgraded to give a continuous supply of wards without needing to back. This means if all 5 players upgraded, there would be a total of 10 possible wards on the map or 15 depending on when you place the wards. Even if some upgraded into pinks instead, it would still be a large amount of wards possible for use and the ward limit is still just 3 per person.

  2. The stats provided on a sight stone are pretty negligible come late game when compared to other items that could have taken its place. For example, an AP burst support would be a lot more useful with more damage and health using the Rylai item than a sight stone and still be able to ward using their trinket.

  3. The role of warding as everyone knows has shifted from support only to the responsibility of the entire team. Some argue this has always been the case but according to lower ELO views (Bronze - Lower or even Mid Gold), it is the support's job. This is of course based on my experience with lower ELO players so it does not by any means represent the majority.

Why I think sight stone might not be needed Pre-9? Well you really usually only back on average (assuming you trade normally and don't get too far behind) 3 times before you reach level 9 when your trinket can be upgraded. Once at level 3-5, another time at 6-8 and then again at around 9-11. By which time, laning phase will be virtually over. This is assuming that you played it safe and successfully avoided ganks as well as protected your wards. So you would really only have to spend on approximately 8 wards in the time between level 1-9. 8 x 75 = 600 gold only spent on wards whereas a sight stone costs at least 800 gold to obtain.

So I pose my question once again, is the sight stone really necessary anymore? Is it now underpowered due to the trinket change? If you do reply in comments, please include your rank so I may know what different elos think of the necessity of the sight stone.

15 Comments

The Queen Viper2 votes

Always necessary if you want to win games.

item 3361 is trash on supports and completely useless if your enemy support goes Sweeper.

item 2049 + item 3341 for the win.

{quoted} For example, an AP burst support would be a lot more useful with more damage and health using the Rylai item than a sight stone and still be able to ward using their trinket.

Those people who go "AP burst support" should NEVER PLAY SUPPORT in the first place. That's the most retarded and toxic way to play support ... or would I say, to play wannabe APC since let's be honest, the only reason why anyone would go full AP support is simply because the are butthurt that they didn't get their Mid.

The solution is simple, if you want more damage, health and AP burst... go Mid ffs.

Godhri1 votes

this isn't true. There are times when AP burst support is ideal. For example, a poke comp down in bot lane or poke team comp or a burst comp. Caitlyn Nidalee , Graves Annie , or Lucian Lux .

This is especially good if your enemy goes a very lane threatening comp like Graves Blitzcrank . One pull and insta death but if you can poke from range with say Nidalee , then you can provide some strong lane presence from safety as well.

Original Quitter1 votes

Annie Karma Lulu Anivia

Are all "strong" AP based supports, if you are one of those lame "I only build damage on support" people at least play one of these champs.

Better yet if you are one of "those" people don't play Anivia you're probably awful and will just troll your team.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

Always necessary if you want to win games.

item 3361 is trash on supports and completely useless if your enemy support goes Sweeper.

item 2049 + item 3341 for the win.

Those people who go "AP burst support" should NEVER PLAY SUPPORT in the first place. That's the most retarded and toxic way to play support ... or would I say, to play wannabe APC since let's be honest, the only reason why anyone would go full AP support is simply because the are butthurt that they didn't get their Mid.

The solution is simple, if you want more damage, health and AP burst... go Mid ffs.

As a tip, the phrase "always" and "never" shouldn't be used anyway, but in a theory-crafting thread, it's just bad form. Unless it's something that doens't have an upside (e.g. Supports should never quit a game) there's no constructive use for it.

Moreover, this suggests that damage has no function. If you think supports are better served by building another path - fair enough. But it's a game of adaptation. So to rule out a path only hamstrings yourself.

Sailor Mint2 votes

As a support, you cannot get a Greater Stealth Totem until well past 15 minutes (level 9). You need as many wards as you can, as early as possible as well as a reliable way to get rid of your opponent's wards.

That's why we get a Sightstone and a Sweeper on our first recall and an Oracle's Lens as soon as we hit level 9.

GST is awesome on solo laners. Supports don't mind recalling between roams. If only to refill their mana and restock on pinks.

Sonasaurous2 votes

I may be unranked and probably doomed to rot in Bronze Hell, but I main support and constantly get my ass kicked by my rl plat friends. If there's anything they've made absolutely clear to me, its that supports have to ward and take out enemy wards. To them, the ideal support would have a sightstone and red trinket by lvl 6 at the latest.

Vision wins games.

Original Quitter2 votes

Im going to say that this is not viable at all. Primarly for reasons mentioned.

You can not ward during team fights or pre-objective encounters.

There is no other argument needed.

Sukishoo2 votes

Here is my reasoning for why I don't think it is:

  1. Main reason: All trinkets can be upgraded to give a continuous supply of wards without needing to back. This means if all 5 players upgraded, there would be a total of 10 possible wards on the map or 15 depending on when you place the wards. Even if some upgraded into pinks instead, it would still be a large amount of wards possible for use and the ward limit is still just 3 per person.

Problem with this is that not everyone takes the Yellow Warding Trinket. I know I never do if I'm the Jungler, as it's much better to have the Sweeping Lens for denying vision.

  1. The stats provided on a sight stone are pretty negligible come late game when compared to other items that could have taken its place. For example, an AP burst support would be a lot more useful with more damage and health using the Rylai item than a sight stone and still be able to ward using their trinket.

Not necessarily. Most all supports should be bring utility to the team and not damage. They should bring a little damage but the carries are the ones that really want to be able to get the kills so the supports should hold more of the utility based items for helping the team move faster, remove cc, ect.

NewOnyx1 votes

{quoted}

Hi everyone. I'm a Gold 1 mid main, but I have played support most of my lower ELO days (Silver 5-SIlver 3). I just wanted to ask everyone if they thought sightstone was still a necessary item Post-level 9 or even Pre-9.

Here is my reasoning for why I don't think it is:

  1. Main reason: All trinkets can be upgraded to give a continuous supply of wards without needing to back. This means if all 5 players upgraded, there would be a total of 10 possible wards on the map or 15 depending on when you place the wards. Even if some upgraded into pinks instead, it would still be a large amount of wards possible for use and the ward limit is still just 3 per person.

  2. The stats provided on a sight stone are pretty negligible come late game when compared to other items that could have taken its place. For example, an AP burst support would be a lot more useful with more damage and health using the Rylai item than a sight stone and still be able to ward using their trinket.

  3. The role of warding as everyone knows has shifted from support only to the responsibility of the entire team. Some argue this has always been the case but according to lower ELO views (Bronze - Lower or even Mid Gold), it is the support's job. This is of course based on my experience with lower ELO players so it does not by any means represent the majority.

Why I think sight stone might not be needed Pre-9? Well you really usually only back on average (assuming you trade normally and don't get too far behind) 3 times before you reach level 9 when your trinket can be upgraded. Once at level 3-5, another time at 6-8 and then again at around 9-11. By which time, laning phase will be virtually over. This is assuming that you played it safe and successfully avoided ganks as well as protected your wards. So you would really only have to spend on approximately 8 wards in the time between level 1-9. 8 x 75 = 600 gold only spent on wards whereas a sight stone costs at least 800 gold to obtain.

So I pose my question once again, is the sight stone really necessary anymore? Is it now underpowered due to the trinket change? If you do reply in comments, please include your rank so I may know what different elos think of the necessity of the sight stone.

for supps who use item 3364

FHMarshy1 votes

I think it's still rather necessary.

Even if you don't upgrade the pink trinket as a support, the yellow upgrade only grants you one ward per minute. Meaning that it's rather hard for you prepare for a up coming baron/dragon fight or light up a section of jungle for a pick or counter pick. Unless you haven't been warding for the last 3 minutes.

Godhri1 votes

I see. Everyone's comments make sense. I don't really play support in higher ELOs so these points you make have never occurred to me, but of course, I do know that vision is key to winning games. You also have to keep in mind though that many people don't really make much use of it either. I always encounter people pushing a lane without vision via wards or vision of the enemy team (god knows why). Etc. etc. So I was just asking to see if people felt it was still needed in games. For me, I guess I meant particularly in solo queue.

Sailor Mint1 votes

You play mid, you should know firsthand how risky it is to try to gank an unwarded lane. When you're rolling the dice every time you walk through a bush because you have no vision on their jungler, or control over your own jungle.

Godhri1 votes

Yes but I never stated anywhere that warding isn't necessary. It is the item that I am referring to. People seem to be mistaking that I am saying warding isn't needed. It most definitely is, but the ITEM sight stone seems a bit outdated to me.

Sailor Mint1 votes

You need all your bases covered before junglers (and some mid laners) hit level 6. Either you have piss poor ward coverage or you're spending over 600g on Green Wards before level 9.

It's not even a fair comparison. Sightstone wins simply by having combats stats and letting you get a Sweeper.

3tyson1 votes

As a jungler i feel like vision in the enemy jungle on low levels is allot more usefull than the late game vision

not saying late game vision is bad im just saying early game vision is god

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Godhri

Unsportsmanlike behavior
Gameplay127 comments
54
votes
Mystery Skin... DJ SONA!?!!
Concepts & Creations16 comments
7
votes
Regarding LB and Zed...
Gameplay7 comments
4
votes
I just want to leave this here for anyone who might need it.
Gameplay0 comments
3
votes
Yon, The Lotus Fox
Concepts & Creations17 comments
3
votes
[Champion Concept] Alarak, the Wrathful Druid
Concepts & Creations8 comments
3
votes