Unsportsmanlike behavior

Godhri·Jun 7, 2015·54 votes·6,111 views

We all know what it's like. We lose lane and then our opposing laners get cocky and start BMing (Bad Mannering) us. Whether it be through repeated laugh animations or simply straight out rubbing it in through text. My question is: Why do you feel the need to do this?

We all know what it feels like. We've all lost at one point or another. So why then do some of us feel the need to make others feel worse about losing than they already do? Is it simply because people have inferiority/superiority complexes? Does it satisfy some primal urge for domination of one's competition?

I just played a game where I was Sona and my ADC was Graves. We went against a name and Vayne. We lost hard due to the opposing jungler's presence. We also lost the game. Both the Vayne and Nami (especially Nami) felt the need to rub it in despite the fact that no words had been exchanged at any point in the game. We did not BM them nor even say anything. I decided to report the nami. Sure she didn't say too much, but it should go without saying that I (nor anyone else) should have to deal with such behavior.

EDIT: I want to add since people are focusing hard about what happened in-game. Much of the BM occurred in post game screen while I was looking at the game stats.

127 Comments

LuggJun 7, 20158 votes

It is really bad now that the kids are out of school.

The way I deal with the really bad ones is to point out that most people who talk shit when ahead are compensating for a lack of something in their pants. This either shuts them up or pisses them off so bad that they throw.

EDIT: Evidently no one got the joke. If I actually did this I would be perma banned.

LucentileJun 7, 201520 votes

{quoted}

It is really bad now that the kids are out of school.

The way I deal with the really bad ones is to point out that most people who talk shit when ahead are compensating for a lack of something in their pants. This either shuts them up or pisses them off so bad that they throw.

I'm sure sexist shaming language instead of being an adult and ignoring/reporting bad behavior is helpful for the community.

ModWulf HelhammerJun 7, 201512 votes

So you reply to poor behavior.....with worse behavior?

And somehow the OP is the kid?

Cancer DancerJun 7, 20157 votes

Probably because they're usually on the losing end of those lanes most of the time so the very few times they stomp they feel the need to shit all over you.

Vistha KaiJun 7, 20155 votes

That feeling when enemy Zed spams laugh for 10 minutes then turns serious, you know shit is about to go down.

Also, stop being sensitive wussy.

DisasterSolaJun 7, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oFyuIEPL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-06-07T08:40:27.014+0000)

That feeling when enemy Zed spams laugh for 10 minutes then turns serious, you know shit is about to go down.

Also, stop being sensitive wussy.

If professional players are fired or fined for bad manners, why should ranked play follow a different set of etiquette?

BMing is a problem; If you get jumped by five man bush tactics you already feel bad you died. Theres no need for their nunubot midlaner to spam /laugh until you respawn.

~~Im totes not speaking from experience, being said nunubot.~~ Putting someone on tilt, purposefully, should never be an allowed strategy.

Vistha KaiJun 7, 20152 votes

Give me one link to a case when a pro was fined for spamming laugh or sth like that.

DisasterSolaJun 7, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oFyuIEPL,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-07T08:57:46.700+0000)

Give me one link to a case when a pro was fined for spamming laugh or sth like that.

http://euw.lolesports.com/articles/eu-challenger-series-ruling-h2k-gaming

Vistha KaiJun 7, 20151 votes

Give me one link to a case when a pro was fined for spamming laugh or sth like that.

Deep Terror NamiJun 7, 20152 votes

It's in the rules. Them not being punished means they haven't been doing it...that doesn't mean they aren't held to a higher standard; it means they are and have so far complied to that particular rule.

Edit: With semantics being argued in the thread, let me clarify; They are following the rule as far as spamming emotes goes. That is not the limit of the rule.

Vistha KaiJun 7, 20151 votes

The best I could find in the rules is point 10.2.2 "Harassment". It's pretty far-fetched too.

Deep Terror NamiJun 7, 20152 votes

10.1.3 iirc. Antagonizing behavior and whatnot.

GwellaouenJun 7, 20153 votes

{quoted}

http://euw.lolesports.com/articles/eu-challenger-series-ruling-h2k-gaming

300 $. Pretty sure that there will be less unspormanlike attitude in game if they do the same for the game. XD

Anyway, it's better to be sportsmanlike. You have more fun with someone like this than the one who is always negative or what not.

GodhriJun 7, 20153 votes

I doubt that would have been covered. Obviously if they are pro players, they also have PR to deal with. They wouldn't want their reputations ruined so they kept it under wraps. There was a video I watched on youtube that claims a pro player was fined for spamming laugh when they ended the game by killing the nexus, but of course, just because its on youtube, doesn't mean it is true.

EDIT: No I don't have a link but I think it was part of a series of videos dedicated to the bloopers of pro leagues.

EDIT 2: Or maybe it is put on blast by Riot. Lol.

DisasterSolaJun 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I doubt that would have been covered. Obviously if they are pro players, they also have PR to deal with. They wouldn't want their reputations ruined so they kept it under wraps. There was a video I watched on youtube that claims a pro player was fined for spamming laugh when they ended the game by killing the nexus, but of course, just because its on youtube, doesn't mean it is true.

EDIT: No I don't have a link but I think it was part of a series of videos dedicated to the bloopers of pro leagues.

EDIT 2: Or maybe it is put on blast by Riot. Lol.

If its pronounced and very clear, then yes they make an example of it. But otherwise youre right, its kept on the down low and handled quietly via small reprimands.

Vistha KaiJun 7, 20151 votes

Every case is for the public to read. If you can't find any it means it never happened.

DisasterSolaJun 7, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oFyuIEPL,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-07T09:21:47.642+0000)

Every case is for the public to read. If you can't find any it means it never happened.

You asked for a case where a pro team was fined for bad manners. I found a case. You refuse to acknowledge it because of semantics.

GG. Cant beat your white knight logic.

BiffoloJun 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If professional players are fired or fined for bad manners, why should ranked play follow a different set of etiquette?

BMing is a problem; If you get jumped by five man bush tactics you already feel bad you died. Theres no need for their nunubot midlaner to spam /laugh until you respawn.

~~Im totes not speaking from experience, being said nunubot.~~ Putting someone on tilt, purposefully, should never be an allowed strategy.

But it IS a strategy. League is, like pretty much any sport, largely a mind game. Spamming laugh in soloq is NOT against the rules. If you think it tilts your opponent and gets you a better chance of winning, then do it. Winning is what matters at the end of the day, not some total strangers feelings.

KilljoyXJun 7, 20152 votes

{quoted} ~~Im totes not speaking from experience, being said nunubot.~~ Putting someone on tilt, purposefully, should never be an allowed strategy.

The entire concept of home-field advantage in real sports is that the audience chants so loud they tilt the opponents. Tilting someone should be a viable strategy. The forums might disagree but it's part of competitive games.

GodhriJun 7, 201523 votes

it's not about sensitivity. It's about having a sense of decency. People seem to lack that in gaming in particular. You can brush it off as me being a wussy but you can't deny that everyone is affected by bad manners in a negative way. I'm not saying I demand something to be done. I just want people to help people realize that unsportsmanlike behavior is an issue we all share and continuing to contribute to this sort of behavior will only make the experience negative for us all.

Wouldn't you feel much better if people either didn't say anything at all or were encouraging rather than aggressively unsportsmanlike towards you when you do poorly? Yea I know the world doesn't always work that way, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be decent people.

disregardableJun 7, 20154 votes

you can't deny that everyone is affected by bad manners in a negative way

That's where you're wrong, and that's why your whole argument is incorrect. You can not control or predict how anyone will react to anything you say or do, whether that be spamming laugh in League of Legends or telling someone they look fat in their shirt. How people react to anything will depend on their mood, their perspective on life, how important the aspect itself is to them personally, and how important the person saying/doing it is to them.

There have been plenty of my games, particularly with Blitzcranks for some reason, where they crushed me so hard that spamming laugh and dancing actually made it more fun. It was funny.

What I'm saying, basically, is that it is only unsportsmanlike if you interpret it as such. We must then accept that calling something unsportsmman-like is necessarily an individual and not objective qualification. That means that you really would be better off if you stopped taking it more seriously. The entire world doesn't agree with you that spamming laugh is harmful in every/any situation, so you need to move on from there.

GodhriJun 7, 201512 votes

You've just agreed with me. Your whole contention is that my argument is invalid because it depends on interpretation. Well, I didn't specify that bad manners were limited to spamming laugh animations. I just said bad manners in general. Therefore, it would require that you would interpret the behavior as bad manners or unsportsmanlike for it to affect you in a negative way.

Consequently, my quoted statement in your post is actually correct based on what you claim.

disregardableJun 7, 20152 votes

A: Semantics.

B: If you want to play semantics, you had already defined BM as "whether it be through repeated laugh animations or simply straight out rubbing it in through text". You did not say "bad manners in general", and even if you had the point still applies that anything and everything can be bad manners to anyone. You ask why someone has no decency when they're just having fun? Doesn't make sense.

GodhriJun 7, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oFyuIEPL,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-07T09:32:06.804+0000)

A: Semantics.

B: If you want to play semantics, you had already defined BM as "whether it be through repeated laugh animations or simply straight out rubbing it in through text". You did not say "bad manners in general", and even if you had the point still applies that anything and everything can be bad manners to anyone. You **ask why someone has no decency when they're just having fun? Doesn't make sense. **

That bolded section of your statement sir is why so many people/kids today have no sense of decency. Fun should not be limited so long as it is satisfying to the self. This invites irresponsible behavior and for those who are used to irresponsible behavior, it also invites redirecting responsibility for one's actions. "It's not my fault because I was just having fun. They shouldn't get so offended just because I tped their home and egged it. It was just "fun"".

disregardableJun 7, 20152 votes

There isn't any other way for "fun" in an anonymous context to work, for the reasons shown in my first post. The reality is that what is fun ON THE RECEIVING END to some people is not fun to you. That has nothing to do with selfishness and everything to do with the fact that every single circumstance varies.

To give an analogy, you're basically asking to remove farm from the game because you don't like farming. You can't avoid it and you don't like it, so no one should have to farm, right? Forget that other people like farming and that sometimes in your own games farming can actually be fun, you just don't want people to farm for those times you don't like it.

Deep Terror NamiJun 7, 20159 votes

Lol, your analogy is closer to saying you can drive a car without using the brakes; technically you can, but that's a terrible way to do it and it will never change, as braking (farming) is part of driving (playing LoL).

Shit talking (or other BM) is optional in any context. The point I'm getting at is that while some might enjoy it, there is no way to know who does, so the default safe option is to simply not do it. Using brakes is the default and safe option (even if you've gotten to your destination before without using the brakes, you're most likely going to crash a lot if you keep doing it).

Get it? No? Idc I'm bored. The Chinese LPL match doesn't have me engaged.

disregardableJun 7, 20151 votes

In an anonymous situation, it's downright irrelevant to whether the person you're interacting with will react positively or negatively because of how little control you have and how little information you have to try to predict their possible reaction. Going on the internet is a whole lot of throwing things out there and hoping it turns out well.

Which, actually, now that I think about it, it would make sense for Riot to make a "Taunts and Laughs" checkbox. I was thinking about how reports in custom games are ignored because it's an opt-in experience- the OP's problem would be fixed if taunts were opt-in too, without hurting the people that use them unnecessarily.

I don't even use fucking taunts. It just bothers me that someone thinks their feelings are more important than everyone else's.

Shield VillainJun 7, 20155 votes

Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

LucentileJun 7, 20155 votes

Also: I honestly don't think most people are going for 'psychological warfare.' That's just an excuse people make so they can be dicks. The surest fire way to put people on tilt is to make good plays and put them at a disadvantage, either by making a pick or putting pressure on other lanes.

Very few people are going to say: "Oh, so-and-so spammed taunt and/or said they want me to kill myself in all chat. I will now make poor decisions." If you want to lie to yourself and say that your immature babbling, which is ruining the fun of the game for your team [I don't like listening to my team talk about how they want to rape Leona/Sona, like IRL, for example], go ahead. But, I'm not going to let you make it sound like that's acceptable behavior.

Baby GhoulJun 7, 20153 votes

I didn't know you could report people who use laughs or taunts a lot. I never see it as a big deal, sometimes it gives me the kick I need to make them eat it. On more than a few occasions I have been able to stomp those kinds of players because cocky people usually make mistakes. They normally keep their fingers off the laugh emote after that. However sometimes they do not, so I don't always think it's to poke fun at me. Maybe they just generally like to be silly/annoying. If you think they're doing it to make you feel worse, then you shouldn't let it. It is what they want.

I think it's so much worse when your allies start making fun of you for losing lane. If any of my teammates ever lose lane badly, then I try to be as supportive as possible. Even if they whine or act like a total jerk. I think it's wrong to make people feel upset, but at the same time you shouldn't invest that much feeling into how your enemy treats you. I find communicating with my teammate in a nice way can make me feel better as well. I don't think you'll ever get rid of immature players, so it's important to remember you aren't in the game alone, and your lane is not the only lane in the game. Remembering things like that also makes me feel better after I lose a lane.

GodhriJun 7, 20152 votes

It wasn't just the spamming laugh emote. I really need to remember that people will ignore language and just zone in on what they can critique.

Baby GhoulJun 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't just the spamming laugh emote. I really need to remember that people will ignore language and just zone in on what they can critique.

It is what you mentioned first, and it is what I most commonly come across when playing and watching people play. The spamming of taunts and laughs.

If someone was harassing you, then you should absolutely report them. I don't think that's an issue. If they were picking on you post game, then I don't believe anyone disagrees that it's wrong. People do get punished for things like that.

If they posted a cheeky comment or bragged, then I don't really think they should get a warning for that. It's in poor taste in my opinion, but it does not cross that thin line. I'd advise people not to do it, if not for decency, then because it could spiral into a toxic argument.

GodhriJun 8, 20151 votes

Completely agree with you, but you shouldn't just pick one piece of what I said and focus on that while ignoring the rest. As I said before, it wasn't just the spamming emote thing.

Baby GhoulJun 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Completely agree with you, but you shouldn't just pick one piece of what I said and focus on that while ignoring the rest. As I said before, it wasn't just the spamming emote thing.

I personally wasn't ignoring what you said. Harassing people is against the rules, so there just wasn't a lot for me to discuss on that front. It's wrong to gang up on someone post game. Nobody should have to put up with that because that's more than bad manners. The whole manners thing was what I thought we were discussing, things like taunt/laugh spamming or making a cheeky comment about your lane opponent.

WillHealForHonorJun 7, 20152 votes

dont be sad.. they´re just not accustomed to winning lol.. i had my adc whine that our mid laner was plat and lost to b1 mid laner.. u know what its a blind pick game.. people play that to learm new champs lol..

Nemesis Force XJun 7, 20152 votes

LOL! Go play hello kitty online if you can't handle a competitive environment. Trashtalking and rubbing it in are the best part of competitive games and sports. You get rekt by that Nami and Vayne, outplayed hard, get over it, it is just a game. You are the immature one for crying like a little girl and reporting them, lol. Reporting them doesn't change the fact that they rekt you, gitgud.

GodhriJun 7, 20154 votes

I'm not sure what you're trying to get across here... At no point in my post do I say that they were being immature. At no point do I say that they were children. At no point do I say that I can't handle it. At no point do I even imply that handling this is too hard for me.

"Just a game". Right. It is indeed just a game, but it is also one of my main past times as it is cheap and affordable. People seem to think it is ok to hold things to a lower standard simply because they can categorize it.

Oh people are being rude to you at school? Get over it that's life. If you're feeling bad about it, it is because of you. Your fault; not theirs.

Oh people are treating you horribly at work? Get over it; that's life. etc. etc.

See where I'm getting at with this? Continuing down this road will just lead to a mentality where we attempt to justify or excuse indecent behavior using the "that's life" mentality. In this case, the "it's just a game" mentality is no excuse or justification for treating someone else badly.

GreekscopeJun 7, 20152 votes

You could try just not being a grown up and have fun with it and stop whining.

GodhriJun 7, 20157 votes

I could, but I hold myself to a higher standard of behavior. Yea, I may not follow that standard perfectly, but I strive to be a decent person.

Silents429Jun 7, 20152 votes

I don't do it myself, but in cases like this I think people just need to get the stick out of there ass and remember it IS a video game and you should just have fun with it, instead of pointing at everything you don't like and trying to make it stop, Is spamming laugh really the end all for you?

I deal with this somewhat often, more or less I laugh back or ignore it, in one of the champion spotlights for Singed Phreak even says to spam your laugh button.

But again it is a game so just have fun.

GodhriJun 7, 20152 votes

Yea but for those of us who use League as one of our main past times for entertainment, it becomes important enough for us to want a decent experience from it.

I deal with this kind of behavior often as anyone else does, but sometimes it just gets to me more than others which makes it hard to ignore or get past. I just don't think it is right to say that just because it happens all the time or just because it's a game, we should pretend that it is ok or turn a blind eye to indecent behavior.

Besides, it wasn't just the laugh spam. I can deal with just a laugh spam. She was also flame baiting and putting deliberate effort in trying to establish that she was the superior player. In this case, she was, but it was not ok for her to continue to shame us for our loss.

Silents429Jun 7, 20151 votes

That is. Literally what being in a competitive game is about. You are going to get people that are cocky and boast that they are better.

GodhriJun 7, 20152 votes

Yep you are correct. Still doesn't make that behavior okay though.

Big Bang BobJun 8, 20152 votes

I think the main problem here is gaming in general.

The only other game against other people I've been expected to say "Good Game" to my opponents is football. In real life. Most other online games (mainly on consoles) you won't hear many people speaking, or at least in my experience. Even if the person doesn't wish to do any actual harm, this can lead to what I call "informal sportsmanship" since they may only speak to their friends. This usually consists of playful banter which not everyone appreciates or will understand over chat. The best thing to do here is turn all chat off if this kind of stuff annoys you and dance/laugh/joke whenever someone spams laugh. The only problem with this is the end game chat.

I'm kinda guilty of taunting the enemy sometimes (in more ways than one Rammus Shen ), but I don't do this often, and when I do, it's usually something like "ha" or ":D" and never anything directly insulting. I would say I do this as an open expression of how I feel about a situation, and likewise, I sometimes type "D:" or "Aw" whenever I'm on the other end of the situation. I would also like to think anyone who finds small things like this annoying has all chat turned off.

NeclordJun 7, 20151 votes

You see, this is why Lyte or any anti-toxic regime is never going to work. There's a reason it happens all the time. It's fundamental human nature.

I play jungle pretty often and always hard camp a lane when playing competitively. 100% effective strategy to make the enemy tilt is to immediately gank and kill them just after dying to a gank and returning to lane. That lane probably receives flame for dying two times in the space of two minutes, and that's my secondary intention when I camp a lane (the primary being getting the lane to snowball). I want the enemy to be flaming eachother. I want the enemy to go afk. If you're not ready to face criticism and harsher conditions in a competitive setting, Solo Queue isn't for you. It's the main reason I avoid Solo Queue like the plague because I know the mentality will never change.

Outright abuse unrelated to the game shouldn't be accepted though, I'll give you that. But if I want to win and someone is hard tilting or just not putting effort in; I will call it out. Many people are the same.

Again, it doesn't put me in the demographic that feels it's acceptable to insult everybody regardless of the context. Saying it again to be even clearer.

GodhriJun 7, 20155 votes

It's also human nature to want a sense of decency from others. By saying I should accept the fact that people are indecent, you are also saying that others should accept that I want a sense of decency from them. Your argument does nothing but point out the obvious. We are all aware that it is human nature. That's not the issue here.

NarasimhaJun 7, 20151 votes

It's also human nature to want a sense of decency from others.

Eh, debatable. Biologically speaking, humans are (naturally) animals. We're given to competition and trying to prove our own superiority. Whether the superiority is warranted or not is a different matter. Its no different than a gorilla beating its own chest, or a snake raising its hood. It just wants to show whose boss.

To be fair, I'm not condoning such actions, far from it. But being 'civilized' and 'decent' is not human nature, its human development, and theres a world of difference.

GodhriJun 7, 20151 votes

Directly, wanting a sense of decency may not be human nature but indirectly it is. The want is a desire and desire is a fundamental aspect of being a living creature. Humans are no exceptions and therefore it is a fundamental aspect of human nature as well.

TransgressorJun 7, 20151 votes

I'd say wanting a sense of decency derives from nurture, opposed to indecency which derives from nature. Decency is a result of a conciousness striving for a better environment to thrive in, while indecency is a primitive raw subconcious behaviour that derives directly from an animals need to eliminate all oposition, so that the strongest surives. It really easy being a prick, you don't really think about it when you curse, threaten, abuse and whatnot, it comes rather naturaly. To want to be a better person, and actualy striving towards it takes some amount of self recognition, to accept there are parts of oneself that need to get better. But you can't and should not expect that from such an environment because its purpose is for competitive player interaction not character building like lets say a good book. What you should expect is at least some players to not be dicks, which is acceptable. Since this game is more on the casual level of MOBAs, and has one of the largest playerbases of any videogame in human history, the ratio of "decency" to "people who just don't give a fuck because they're casuals and tomorrow might not even touch the game again" is towards the latter. On the other hand, I couldn't personaly care less about disrespecting pricks. In this day and age, everyone's a badass behind a keyboard and a monitor, give them a reason and they'll start a crusade against you. So it doesn't matter, because fakes are fake, not to mention that being called a loser, by a kid that lives across the planet or the country or the city or the state or whatever, a kid you're 99,999999% sure to die and never actualy meet, is pretty fucking pointless. So worry about the people you care and give a fuck about, and those who give a fuck about you, because it's just how the world works.

GodhriJun 8, 20151 votes

Decency is not a result of a conscious effort to find a better environment in which to thrive in. It is the possession and practice of accepted/acceptable moral standards. Yes it is an element of nurture as opposed to nature but everything derives from our natural instincts. The nature of our beings.

It is indeed easier to be indecent as it appears to be an easy way to establish dominance and superiority in a competitive environment. However, this concept only holds true for creatures incapable of complex thoughts similar to a human being. With less intelligent life forms, the only tool for dominance they possess is their physical body and what limited capacity they possess with their brains. With humans, we possess rationality, logic, morality and many other concepts that complicates things. This is why decency is by indirect link, an aspect of human nature. Desiring this sense of decency from other humans is a very natural and human thing to want. It is the easiest way to survive. If other humans are decent, no physical competition (fighting/wars/etc.) will be necessary to survive.

So it is not wrong to expect decency from others. It is only natural as life becomes easier when others are decent.