Boards›Gameplay

How to make Teemo the Guerilla Fighter he should be

Hyrum Graff··8 votes·973 views

You wade through the jungle's weeds. The hair on the back of your neck tingles. He's near.

######pop

Your lungs beg for fresh air. There's movement! You charge, but all you catch is pain. It's in your eyes.

The cloud dissipates, your vision clears, and the numbness fades. You twirl; he can't have gone far, but the only sign that remains is a cackle on the breeze. Hehe-haha...

This is what playing (against) Teemo should be like. However, as it stands, Teemo doesn't quite deliver on that fantasy. Fortunately, he doesn't need much help. Just two changes:

1. Replace his blind with what quinn and graves got. Since Teemo's blind is the last one in the game, now we can rename the new mechanic from "vision reduction" to 'blind'.
2. Give Move Quick the bush treatment -- if teemo doesn't take damage for 1.5s while it's active, he enters his passive. He may move, invisible, while Move Quick is active, but when it wears off moving will break stealth like normal.

19 Comments

Llanite4 votes

The only tweaks he needs,

  • W suppresses slow effect while it's active.
  • W providing 32% MS while active, leveling it only raises the passive MS.
  • Teemo receives MS towards target affected with his R.

Any 2 of the above and Teemo is viable.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

The only tweaks he needs,

  • W suppresses slow effect while it's active.
  • W providing 32% MS while active, leveling it only raises the passive MS.
  • Teemo receives MS towards target affected with his R.

Any 2 of the above and Teemo is viable.

This isn't about making Teemo viable, it's about making him a better hellspawn Guerrilla Fighter.

tommyagun2 votes

NO

Knoyle7 votes

Kennen YES, YES, YES!

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

i dont want to see a nerf to his blind. unless he can still have the miss on auto attacks. i dont want to hear it

GlockHammer2 votes

I am all for it, as long as one BILLION Vaynes are sacrificed on Teemo's altar to satan. Kreygasm

Ralanr1 votes

The only way I could see him moving while invisable is if his speed was severely reduced while invisable.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

The only way I could see him moving while invisable is if his speed was severely reduced while invisable.

He can already move while invisible, in brushes.

With this, he can only move while invisible while move quick is active. It's not a permastealth like Eve. You might need to shorten the Move Quick duration, or make the bonus MS expire when he enters his passive, to balance it.

jmaishere1 votes

There's a reason why neither twitch or eve have permastealth anymore. It's not gonna happen with teemo.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

There's a reason why neither twitch or eve have permastealth anymore. It's not gonna happen with teemo.

This isn't permasrealth while moving.

  • If you can put any damage on teem it prevents him from going invis (unlike twitch q which just delays it)
  • He gets the ms on cast instead of on stealth.
  • He can't recall during stealth

and the BIG difference:

  • He can't move nearly as far as Twitch.
    • Twitch uses his Q to ambush someone.
    • Teemo would use this move quick to get into his normal passive, where he can't move anymore.
Almighty Teemo1 votes

The new blind will make teemo get popped by champions with gapclosers like irelia and jax. That blind is fine on quinn because she has an escape.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

{quoted}

The new blind will make teemo get popped by champions with gapclosers like irelia and jax. That blind is fine on quinn because she has an escape.

Perhaps. I tend to think that teemo should get murdered in a fair fight by... just about anyone. But Teemo doesn't fight fair. He lays down a minefield and sits in it, waiting for you to walk by. You walk over a mine and you're slowed; now you can't see anything; and when finally your screen isn't black any more, he's gone again.

I thinking about adding more changes to his Q in version 2 of this. While in his passive:

  1. Q range is increased.
  2. Casting Q doesn't break stealth until the dart lands (and the blind is applied)

This way, Irelia won't be able to jump to him, because she'll never see him.

I want to think a little more about this, though -- how to make it so Teemo can't win in an open fight, while still maintaining his ability to lane effectively.

XIII Vanitas2 votes

What about the counterplays? Quinn's Q is a skillshot, Teemo has a point-and-click ability. Being blinded out of nowhere with no way to predict it or avoid it isn't nice to play against. Anyways, if you decide to change his Q and make it a skillshot, it would become the same spell that Quinn has and it would be harder to poke enemies in lane, reducing a lot his early game power. If you want to rework something so massive in a champion's kit, you have to think about how he's going to be affected by the changes and if the rest of his kit (passive, W, E and R) would still work just fine or should be changed too.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

What about the counterplays? Quinn's Q is a skillshot, Teemo has a point-and-click ability. Being blinded out of nowhere with no way to predict it or avoid it isn't nice to play against. Anyways, if you decide to change his Q and make it a skillshot, it would become the same spell that Quinn has and it would be harder to poke enemies in lane, reducing a lot his early game power. If you want to rework something so massive in a champion's kit, you have to think about how he's going to be affected by the changes and if the rest of his kit (passive, W, E and R) would still work just fine or should be changed too.

This is exactly why I want to think about it more.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Could affect his gameplay against melees though, as Quinn's Q doesn't block AA's if they can see you in their small vision range, right? And that would be really bad for Teemo, so...

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Could affect his gameplay against melees though, as Quinn's Q doesn't block AA's if they can see you in their small vision range, right? And that would be really bad for Teemo, so...

True. I need to think a bit more about how this would affect his laning. This is not a complete set of changes to keep him healthy, just a partial set to make him more thematic.

XIII Vanitas1 votes

This is how I would change Teemo:

  • Passive: Everytime Teemo stands still for 1.5 seconds, he becomes stealthed, breaking the stealth only when he issues an attack or move command (recall included). If he enters a bush and the enemy team loses vision of him, he instead becomes stealthed immediately and he's able to move freely inside the bush without breaking the stealth. Whenever Teemo breaks the stealth, he gets an AS (attack speed) and MS (movement speed) buff that decays rapidly over 2 seconds.
  • Q (active): copy-paste Quinn's Q
  • W (active): Teemo gains passively W stacks everytime he moves or cast a basic attack. When he reaches 100 stacks, he can activate his W, breaking free from any slow effect, gaining 50% slow resist and a huge MS buff that decays rapidly over 2 seconds. Scoring a kill or an assist grants immediately 100 stacks.
  • E (passive): Teemo's basic attacks poison his target, slowing it and dealing bonus magic damage over time. The slow effect is consistent, but it decays very rapidly over 1 second; successive basic attacks don't reapply the slow unless the effect has already worn off. The poison damage ticks 3 times, each lasting the same amount of time (0.5 seconds): the first tick does 50% of the total damage, the other two ticks do 25% each. The poison damage doesn't stack, but it can be refreshed with every successive basic attack.
  • R (active): remains the same.
Veraska1 votes

I actually really like the idea of making his blind a vision reduction, it'd mean he'd get shit on by right clickers who get on top of him, but honestly as a squishy ranged poke machine with no gap closer that's how it SHOULD be

I also recognize teemo is a champion without good fallback patterns in lane sp I propose replacing blinding dart all together with a new spell

Blinding grenade (tentatively titled): teemo fires a loaded dart from his blow gun if it hits an enemy unit it scatter shots in a cone, hitting and applying his poison to all units hit, enemy champion's hit have there vision reduced

This gives teemo a little more skill expression (Point and click changed to skillshot with cone mechanic) and makes him a little more melee friendly and healthy while giving him a fall back pattern while behind or in an unfavorable match up (safer wave clear)

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

I actually really like the idea of making his blind a vision reduction, it'd mean he'd get shit on by right clickers who get on top of him, but honestly as a squishy ranged poke machine with no gap closer that's how it SHOULD be

I also recognize teemo is a champion without good fallback patterns in lane sp I propose replacing blinding dart all together with a new spell

Blinding grenade (tentatively titled): teemo fires a loaded dart from his blow gun if it hits an enemy unit it scatter shots in a cone, hitting and applying his poison to all units hit, enemy champion's hit have there vision reduced

This gives teemo a little more skill expression (Point and click changed to skillshot with cone mechanic) and makes him a little more melee friendly and healthy while giving him a fall back pattern while behind or in an unfavorable match up (safer wave clear)

I'm wary of making his Q a skillshot of any kind due to overlap with Quinn and Graves. However, my current thinking is that giving his E an active along with shifting things around in his kit a bit, could yield something fruitful -- a fallback pattern, or a way to deal with melees with a gap closer. I'm still mulling it over, I'll post again when I have more thoughts.

As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the proposed changes in the OP are not complete and would need to be supported by other kit changes. However, I think they give Teemo a really cool pattern as described in the OP, and I'd like to figure out how to preserve that pattern in whatever kit I end up with.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Hyrum Graff

DoTs can feel impactful if you show how much damage they WILL do as soon as they hit
Gameplay356 comments
825
votes
@meddler @kateykhaos The dragon icons need tweaking for clarity
Gameplay155 comments
299
votes
Can we all agree that towers are in a pretty good spot right now?
Gameplay138 comments
194
votes
DQ has problems. So did the old system. Introducing Club Ranked
Gameplay182 comments
160
votes
ZED CHANGES ARE TARGETED AT FRUSTRATION, NOT POWER
Gameplay213 comments
146
votes
Small Ekko nerf: better counterplay through better ult clarity (QOL for enemies)
Gameplay90 comments
127
votes