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Preseason has failed to implement it's goals.

ScurvyNave··176 votes·8,164 views

When preseason 6 first came around I was aware that balance would be jeopardized for the next several patches but It's not just balance that is currently failing but most of Riots goals with these massive changes.

Rift Herald: How rarely is this thing even used. I mean its not game breaking or broken on its own but for most games it just sits their waiting to turn into Baron.

ADC Upgrade...oh sorry I meant Update: So if you aren't Lucian MF or Graves player then this update means very little to you. New items and better costs but Essence reaver makes the 3 listed champions as broken as RIven's sword. Sure there are new times but as always, there's the one build path which is best. No variety in style of build or champion choice.

Gameplay/Momentum: We've all experienced it. Games are short curb stomps or slaughters where one mistake by one teammate can screw over your chances of wining. The minion changes help slightly but now I feel as if I'm playing an over glorified Call of Duty game instead of a strategic team game. Get you ad assassin or marksmen fed is the new name for League.

Masteries: Good Lord. Instead of choice we have broken mastery of the week where you find out that these new masteries are better than most champion passives. The Warlord's rampage, thunder lords League etc. Not only are the masteries too synergetic with some champions while leaving others in the dust. Plus Swain, Anivia, and Karthus nerfs because of them? Really? Did we learn nothing from Warwick and Feral Flare or Sejuani and CInderhulk. Take you broken masteries back and give me the old ones which didn't dominate the game and make a subset of champions OP only for them to be nerfed when there are far worse balance cases.

Priorities and Plans have been bungled so much recently. The Juggernaut reign the 100% morde ban/pick. I haven't seen a positive change in so long I'm losing hope of what season 6 will be like. (Also new assassin item. Welcome back to the League of Zed mid-lane. At least Faker and Bjergsen will be happy.)

129 Comments

Earl Eulrich50 votes

absolutly agree...there´s not a single thing this preseason i enjoy more than during the last seasons - rather the opposite on many occassions.

ScurvyNave46 votes

Indeed, While the other seasons and preseasons had issues of their own, none where as glaring and disruptive as this one. It's like Riot almost had a house of cards built but decided. "Nah we can do this better." and flipped the table over.

Change is good but change just for the sake of it, like this preseason, is just useless and poor design.

D rok3 votes

Ahhhh God, it's so good to hear all my frustrations all summed up at once in a reasonable post.

The mastery system is throwing balance off for months to come, and will always be stale for certain champions, while getting increasingly boring and time consuming in champ select. Having to edit my mastery page every game is not fun. The choices they want us to make are currently not really there, especially for keystones. Maybe for a few of the tier 2/4 masteries.

I actually like the idea of differentiating the ADCs, but other than that, the past 6 months of balancing have been hellishly poor.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

Warwick

Earl Eulrich2 votes

not sure why of all champs you´d enjoy ww more now...he´s still in dire need of a rework.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

I enjoy playing against him more. If you want, you can also add in general jungle diversity.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

wouldn´t say so...for competitive play jungle is still not diverse and if you´re not tryharding jungle has always been very open.

TurquoiseYoshi1 votes

Let me edit that again, jungle item diversity is better. Warrior isn't every jungler, Cinderhulk isn't in top lane, Runeglaive isn't everywhere, and Sated isn't on the G&B boards.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

well...though i think most of the choices are pretty unsatisfying right now - with elder lizard&co you could feel good about most jungle items - now you just get them because you need the ward-upgrade.

Chespin201334 votes

You forgot on how they nerfed trinkets and warding too in this season as well. The game feels just as you said one of those mindless shooter games than the strategic moba that League is or was and now is slowly is being dumbed down

A Miss Fortune9 votes

I agree, with the removal of vision the game is seriously dumbed down.

Critmaster Garen20 votes

{quoted}

ADC Upgrade...

it was never supposed to be that. at least i hope not.

i still hold on to the hope that riot realizes marksmen were already strong enough before the changes and slowly tune them down again to how they were preseason. and the buffs were only collateral damage of the attempt of making them and their items more diverse.

including their lategame, which even though it doesnt show right now since games dont last very long, but is generally op.

ScurvyNave21 votes

including their lategame, which even though it doesnt show right now since games dont last evry long, but is generally op.

This is the fundamental issue when balancing ADC's. I feel as if people forget their greatest strength which is persistent damage from range. This means that as long as there are towers and objectives in League ADC's will have their place. But Riot want's it both ways with ADC's being objective takers as well as being duelists, kiters, etc. The update, cause thats what it was, only served to increase ADC power and give them cheaper items therefore accelerating the pace at which they reach their late game power spike.

ADC's as a class will always seem underpowered and unable to kill tanks or overpowered and shredding everyone because of how they are designed.

EndlessSorcerer9 votes

I like the itemization changes for the most part.

I just want them to revert the Kog'maw changes.

Now that Runaan's Hurricance has crit chance, he would work quite well with his former kit instead of his gimmicky W.

Bladerunner77771 votes

I was looking to give kog'maw another shot this season because I've owned him for a while but I rarely play adc.

Even with only a handful of games with old kog the new kog is horrible to play and isn't engaging or fun at all.

Zoolong6 votes

New Kog isn't bad if you're part of a premade team who can work together and build a comp around him. If he's able to sit stationary and use his 5.0 attack speed with hurricane and some onhit dmg, he's amazing. In soloQ though, he's terrible and should never be picked.

Raiyza2 votes

{quoted}

New Kog isn't bad if you're part of a premade team who can work together and build a comp around him. If he's able to sit stationary and use his 5.0 attack speed with hurricane and some onhit dmg, he's amazing. In soloQ though, he's terrible and should never be picked.

That's the thing though. Solo queue is tougher. Riot shouldn't balance him solely around premade teams. He should have an easier time getting to the point he needs to be. He is completely immobile so any ranged mage/poke champion such as Xerath and Varus can easily take him down.

Bladerunner77775 votes

Yeah but they changed kog'maws highpoints from orbwalking/kiting while weaving in spells for TF procs into: Press W > Right click

Ralanr1 votes

Pretty sure it was to make the class more defined and to stop having Vayne show up everywhere (and Jinx and Tristana)

Vayne I don't see much anymore, jinx is still around, and I've seen other ADCS come back.

I still hate botlane, but it's less hell than season 5 teleport to bot lane everyone and shut down the enemy ADC in the first 10 minutes.

I hated being a giant target. "Then don't go ADC" we all get roles we hate eventually, but sometimes we can fine a way to enjoy them. ADC was not one of those roles (and I still kind of hate it).

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure it was to make the class more defined and to stop having Vayne show up everywhere (and Jinx and Tristana)

Vayne I don't see much anymore, jinx is still around, and I've seen other ADCS come back.

I still hate botlane, but it's less hell than season 5 teleport to bot lane everyone and shut down the enemy ADC in the first 10 minutes.

I hated being a giant target. "Then don't go ADC" we all get roles we hate eventually, but sometimes we can fine a way to enjoy them. ADC was not one of those roles (and I still kind of hate it).

12% max health true damage.

wait until games will last longer again at some point. vayne is going to break every record when it comes to pick and winrate. games currently dont last long enough for her to hit her main powerspike. and she has still 30% pick rate.

Jasiwel16 votes

My problem with pre-season is that it seriously feels like all the progressions Riot made with Season 4 and 5 were completely dismissed.

The HeraId15 votes

I felt like in Seasons 4 and 5, everything was getting more balanced, everything headed ever so slightly towards a well balanced, fun, strategic game.

Now? Game might well be called Call of Legends, almost every game I play is decided by the 20 minute mark, no questions asked, whoever is ahead at 20 is going to be ahead until 50 minutes into the game.

Zephyr removed? Say good by the item niches/diversity you wanted. Cull? Why???

I have not had a game that wasn't TDM since preseason, strategy is gone, it is snowball to hell or you are going to be useless. The game is literally win your lane or never be effective, and there is an issue with that. Yes comebacks can always happen, people can throw leads, but it is damn hard to throw any lead you have because you have free reign over objectives, and unless the team that is behind has a shit load of sightstones/blue trinkets, you can't even walk into your jungle.

Remove stealth wards? WHy the fuck is that even an option that is considered? That is already a buff to assassins and burst champions in general, then buff thunderlords and a mastery that gives free pen? You wanted champion diversity, and if you don't pick into the META in this preseason you gave 75% chance of being worthless to your team, a 15% of being even and a 10% chance of actually being an asset to your team.

I have no idea what riot was thinking, literally if fall behind you will stay behind. What is wrong with long, drawn out games? are that much of an issue? is there an issue with your oh so precious early game champions falling off? Is there an issue with the fact that assassins shouldn't be able to kill tanks? You say you want to add comeback potential, yet at the same time back towers almost indefensible unless you are there before the enemy.

Riot, you say you want to add diversity, yet you lessin it by your changes. There was more diversity early-mid season 5 then anytime after that. I am not saying cinderhulk was balanced by any means, but that was when the most champs were being played.

Riot, please, stop being hypocrites, I believe that any changes you have in mind at this point have to be major to recover from this for the start of the next season. I just don't see a reason to even try and complain this for the most part, because nothing ever changes with riot. They always annoy the community, and always go back to the times when flashy plays and kills are what is going on because that is what is fun to watch for most people.

I personally hate watching TDMs, I like the drawn out slugfests that we had. Yes, you probaly lost viewers for it, but at least their was less annoyance and who lot less rage at it.

Solitair1 votes

well, the problem with really long games is that some team comps can simply rely on the fallback of stall-to-win. That takes some of the excitement out of it, at least for many spectators. Of course, supporting an environment of snowball-to-win is a bit counterintuitive if the issue to be eliminated was the catering to champions that could simply abuse their gold-dependant god phase. At least the snowball-to-win does actually reward and require more good, meaningful decision-making than stall-to-win, which is more reliant on less dynamic game elements. I like that the game is emphasizing growing upon small advantages and opportunities, at least it sounds good on paper. It even sounds like a good learning tool, however, it often seems to pan out in ways that are overly frustrating. People are people, and more often than not, one can count on them to make the most foolish and careless of mistakes. Here, those are forgiven far less easily than we may be accustomed to, but I think many people are overlooking the pro's (as in pro/con) to this environment of snowball. They do exist.

The HeraId4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Intrepid 07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wkAtR1EP,comment-id=00170001,timestamp=2016-01-03T08:22:43.817+0000)

well, the problem with really long games is that some team comps can simply rely on the fallback of stall-to-win. That takes some of the excitement out of it, at least for many spectators. Of course, supporting an environment of snowball-to-win is a bit counterintuitive if the issue to be eliminated was the catering to champions that could simply abuse their gold-dependant god phase. At least the snowball-to-win does actually reward and require more good, meaningful decision-making than stall-to-win, which is more reliant on less dynamic game elements. I like that the game is emphasizing growing upon small advantages and opportunities, at least it sounds good on paper. It even sounds like a good learning tool, however, it often seems to pan out in ways that are overly frustrating. People are people, and more often than not, one can count on them to make the most foolish and careless of mistakes. Here, those are forgiven far less easily than we may be accustomed to, but I think many people are overlooking the pro's (as in pro/con) to this environment of snowball. They do exist.

For me personally, I don't see any pros to it then shorter games that are stomps more then close drawn out games. I find a game dependent on snowballing to be poorly designed because when about half your champions are reliant on at the very least three items, they become unviable to your team. Nasus is literally only slightly viable because he can 45% CDR, and the stall-to-win is still what those few games I don't have decided by 20 minutes are.

I am someone who despises anything that is reliant on getting kills to get ahead, any system designed that way is flawed. If I wanted to play a game designed that way I would play First Person Shooters, and I don't even see this new system punishing mistakes, in fact I am seeing less of it, because 75% of the top lane reliably-viable champions(such as Darius) don't care if they give up two kills, because in most matchups, him simply being that strong up until late mid game and into late.

Another issue is an entirely personal. I like huge tanks(Sion/Maokai/Naut/Sej) and picking those champions other then sejuani is very set circumstances just straight up puts your team behind from the get go. When games are basically based around stuff that happens in the five-to-nine minutes, I see flaws. Mistakes that early, should not be strongly affecting what happens twenty minutes later unless there a ton of the deaths in that span, and yet, they do.

It is flawed to me, and more infuriating than entertaining.

Dar Raksada6 votes

Why is it a problem if lategame teams get a chance to try & turtle up to lategame? You might as well not have lategame oriented champs if that's a problem.

Critmaster Garen13 votes

i also think, while the juggernaut patch kinda broke skarner and morde for a few days, they managed to fix darius, garen and skarner quickly to reasonable levels balance wise. while morde is still a good chunk of work, theyd figure him out eventually.

either way, they didnt actually "reign" for very long. its more like they were now in a spot were they were relevant, when they absolutely werent before.

its definitely not comparable to the weeks of mess we had and still have thanks to the marksmen items. you have to remember, that bruisers received the same level of item changes with titanic hydra, dead mans and steraks being added. still, all those new bruiser items clearly didnt break champions as badly as the adc items.

its like every time the game is focused on adc and assassins, its an absolute mess.

ScurvyNave21 votes

Agreed. It just seems to me that these class-wide updates just serve to make that class superior for the time until the next update. Heaven help us when the assassin one comes around.

Solitair9 votes

Well I like what they did as far as trying to give each adc a unique identity, but MF in particular feels a little too oppressive with her unfairly long ranged slow, generally steroided abilities, and insane poke. She's a bit overtuned.

The tank prowess that has arisen accidentally is a bit annoying. Unkillable Mundo's surface every game it seems, and it's exceedingly difficult to recover from the failures of other team mates to deal with them--at the very least, people could learn to lose their lane without feeding.

I feel sad for mage mains, and as someone who often fills, I usually have to take on mid lane because it seems most people would rather not. This was not the case last season(seemed like support was least wanted role). I'm not complaining, as I'm still able to learn and have fun and prioritize objectives in order to accomplish victory.

I'm not a fan of league of Thunderlords, or that masteries have been split up to give junglers a headache, but I'm not angry about it. I just wish Riot's purpose for them regarding meaningful desicions was not limited to "pick thunderlords or your team will hate you".

What I really, really, REALLY DESPISE about this new season is the vision nerf. I feel like I'm freaking blind all of the time, and heavily reliant on the support's ward placement. When I am the support, I feel a lot of the burden of vision come down to me. Everyone else uses blue trinket, not because it's so great, but because the alternative is garbage. So the answer wouldn't be to nerf blue trinkets, but to bring the other trinkets back to a good place. A dark map may be exciting to watch, but it isn't fun to play, and having been used to taking control of vision, it freaks me the fuck out. I feel frustrated playing top and mid. Where I used to have such a good handle on my vision, and liberally used vision advantage to win my lane confidently, I now shiver in place like a Chihuahua in December because I don't know what the fuck is going on around me. It's all very confusing because Riot's idea about season 6 and running theme was "meaningful decisions". What about the decision not to buy greens? Or the decision not to purchase a trinket upgrade? Or To purchase such things? were these not highly meaningful decisions that could win or lose games or otherwise severely impact the outcome? Were they not fine as they were? What decision do we have regarding trinkets now? What meaningful decisions do we have left regarding vision?

MKDkilla8 votes

Rift Herald is extremely important, especially for devourer junglers. Adds +5 stacks, and it's a very good objective to play around. Top lane is less of an island now, which is much better.

ADC upgrade also threw out the reign of Jinx and Vayne , both who were much more cancerous than MF and Lucian. Quinn, Trist, Corki, Twitch, also got very much needed changes, especially the former. Variety in bot lane is far better than it was before, Urgot and Kog are the only ADCs I have seen little of.

The game punishes mistakes far more now, which I think is a lot better. Teaches idiots not to try and take enemy red after taking inhib at 40 minutes. Lane phases, especially top, are far more interesting than the average 20 minute farm fest it used to be.

6 Masteries are already in plan to receive buffs, and it will almost certainly change before season 6 comes out. Masteries before were stale as shit and were unnoticeable for the majority of their time. Swain/Anivia/Karthus nerfs had nothing to do with masteries either.

Juggernauts are not ban/pick anymore... Assassin item hasn't even been released yet, so calm the fuck down.

And no good changes? Poppy rework, revamped champion select on the way, stop talking bullshit.

LankPants2 votes

ADC upgrade also threw out the reign of Jinx and Vayne , both who were much more cancerous than MF and Lucian. Quinn, Trist, Corki, Twitch, also got very much needed changes, especially the former. Variety in bot lane is far better than it was before, Urgot and Kog are the only ADCs I have seen little of.

Right now the problem I have with ADCs is how clear the A and B tier ADCs are. The top 5 ADCs are Lucian, Vayne, MF, Jinx and Trist. You could argue that Corki is also up there, personally I'd say he's a solid sixth place, he's better than the rest of the ADCs but isn't quite as good as these 5.

After these 6 ADCs fall off super hard. I very rarely see ADCs like Ashe, Twitch, Sivir, Draven ect. These guys just seem to have fallen off the face of the earth.

Sure, at the top end ADCs have better variance, but in the mid range there's just a huge gap between the ADCs who are actually good and who just aren't good enough.

MKDkilla3 votes

Cait is in a good spot, Twitch is considered good by pros who use him like Dlift, Sivir is the same. You forget also forget to mention Ezreal and Kali (the latter is very common in higher elo).

The only ADC who I've seen dropped in play rate after the patch is Draven (and the rarely seen anyways Kog). I don't see many of them, but minion block is considered a huge problem by most of them when trying to axe catch.

Caitlyn Corki Ezreal Graves Jinx Kalista MissFortune Lucian Quinn Tristana Sivir Twitch Vayne

Still lots of ADCs to choose from though. Apart from a few, most option are considered pretty viable, I'd even add Draven but meh.

Rozzeta7 votes

It certainly feels like they have pushed a lot of changes in order to make the game feel more fresh, but ultimately failed to make all adjustments required before season 6 start. Pretty similar to what happened back in preseason 4.

Vreivai7 votes

I almost feel like Riot's just given up at this point. There hasn't been a single change pushed to the PBE in the last 2 weeks. Even during the season it basically never happens that the game goes this long with no changes, and we're in the middle of the fucking preseason, where change is supposed to come much more rapidly. Rito, what's going on?

AstreaSoul5 votes

It's the holiday season. Riot always takes a hiatus around this time.

Solitair3 votes

^this. It's not the apocalypse. People are simply enjoying their holidays. they even announced when the final patch of 2015 would take place, which is consistent with your observation of no activity for 2 weeks.

KaisadiIIa6 votes

Graves OP? Where do you live in?

Nu636 votes

Some of these are legit complaints, but I really think you expect this game to be 100% balanced. That's never, ever, ever, ever, EVER GOING TO HAPPEN. EVER. No video game with multiple unique characters is going to be 100% balanced. Look at every fighting game and MMO ever. Something is always going to be better. What matters is that the game continues to change so different characters and roles get their turn. Look at the difference between season 5 spring and fall: it's practically a different game. Remember preseason 5 when only 2 jungles could do a full clear? There's no way in hell this is worse than that.

Games needed to be shorter. That has been achieved and it has to do with overall changes to the game effecting teamwork, not adcs. Best improvement the game has made since its inception.

Lucian, Tristana, Kalista, MF, Ashe, and even Vayne (despite having no certain item path) are solid picks right now. Graves is strong but not an every game adc. Caitlyn serves two roles: A safe option for non-adc mains who just want to farm and stay relevant in team fights without putting themselves in too much risk, and over aggressive early game styles where you want to keep bot lane pushed hard. Jinx and Sivir are only hurting because games don't last long enough for them to really put on the hurt anymore, but are still decent picks. Kog and Draven are the two really in need of help. I have no idea about Ez -- he's a good early game lane bully in the right hands but he either falls off hard mid game or has to put himself at too much risk in team fights.

Lucian might seem op, but he's far easier to deal with than he was in season 4.

Masteries are way better. Even if they don't balance out thunderlords. Still way better. Actual choices. No longer just doing their best impression of wow masteries. The sacrifices you make for utility and defense are actually fair and not gutting to the whole laning phase. Supports can actually build some damage and god help be a little more fun to play without completely f'ing over your adc. Thunderlords does need to be looked at, but even if they made no changes for season 6 it's a way bigger improvement over past masteries.

DorkunedAuras2 votes

Hey, Hey, it wasn't only 2 jungles that could do a full clear. Warwick Fiddlesticks XinZhao MasterYi could. that's 4

Clockwork Madoka5 votes

The Rift Herald is actually pretty good, especially on a lot of devourer junglers.

That additional, easy 5 stacks makes it a lot easier to get sated quickly.

Tails Doll10 votes

The problem with it, at least so far, it's that it requires TWO players to take down, and the buff it gives only helps 1 player. Dragon it's still way more important than Gerald, plus it can be soloed by many junglers.

And it's mostly a snowballing buff, a "win harder" mechanic. I wont risk a 2 v 2 for Geral when top and I are behind, and wont ask mid to get slaughter too. So only the winning team gets the buff, which is really "unfair" in away, since it's not game breaking like Baron buff, and since you can only get it pre 20 min, it's only worth to extend the lead you got.

I'll rather risk dragon than Gerald, at least I know that if I take drag I can delay a potential 5th drag team, or 3rd drag with that amazing MS buff.

Clockwork Madoka2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tails Doll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wkAtR1EP,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-01-02T21:21:55.117+0000)

The problem with it, at least so far, it's that it requires TWO players to take down, and the buff it gives only helps 1 player. Dragon it's still way more important than Gerald, plus it can be soloed by many junglers.

And it's mostly a snowballing buff, a "win harder" mechanic. I wont risk a 2 v 2 for Geral when top and I are behind, and wont ask mid to get slaughter too. So only the winning team gets the buff, which is really "unfair" in away, since it's not game breaking like Baron buff, and since you can only get it pre 20 min, it's only worth to extend the lead you got.

I'll rather risk dragon than Gerald, at least I know that if I take drag I can delay a potential 5th drag team, or 3rd drag with that amazing MS buff.

I agree it would be better if it was either balanced a bit better towards a possible 'catch up" mechanic, or if it was better in general. Really, it's only worth getting if you're really ahead, or playing a very healing-oriented jungle (or Shaco, if the AI cooperates)

Just Blame Jenny5 votes

Yep. This is the issue for me, too.

If top is ahead, he doesn't need the herald.

If top is behind or about even, he doesn't want the herald, because it'll force him to push (and become susceptible to ganks).

So I only bother with herald if it's wide open and will take basically no time at all to grab.

Although it works thematically, I think the pushing mechanic needs to be removed to make the herald more viable. It'd be much better if it granted sustain.

jeremiahBIO5 votes

'Instead of choice we have broken mastery of the week where you find out that these new masteries are better than most champion passives." i died.

KoKoboto5 votes

Perhaps they should tie Rift Herald to EXP? Do you want Buff + Level advantage or Dragon + Impending super buff

BluePolarizer5 votes

another thing I'd like to say is this: what is the game gonna be balanced for?

Is it a viewer's game, or is it a player's game?

CitadelOfIce4 votes

Thank you! Good lord I have been saying this since the preseason started. They tried to change too much too fast on a system that had some significant problems that they failed to address first.

Maximum Ao Shin1 votes

preseason has failed to implement it is goals..

right

why are people even reading a post made by someone who has no understanding of the english language?

ScurvyNave6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Ao Shin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wkAtR1EP,comment-id=002a,timestamp=2016-01-03T16:00:16.139+0000)

preseason has failed to implement it is goals..

right

why are people even reading a post made by someone who has no understanding of the english language?

Maybe because he speaks the truth. If grammar bugs you so much go back to boarding school.

SHlTBUG1 votes

This is going to come off as a really bad comment for a lot of reasons, but...

I disagree with all of this.

PickleBabah4 votes

Perhaps it wouldn't be as bad of a comment if you just... provided reasons?

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