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I really don't understand the Dynamic Queue hatred

Swollwonder··9 votes·1,097 views

My ranked experience has been TREMENDOUSLY more positive since dynamic queue was implemented. I can't even remember the last time I had an afk which I had all the time in season 5.

People say they don't like it because they don't like facing pre mades but I don't understand this logic. According to riot, 98% of 4 people pre mades are matched with other 4 people pre mades and 5 man pre mades are matched with other 5 man pre mades 96% of the time.

So assuming you're not in the 4% getting matched against 5 man pre mades (which you may just be the odd ball out in a 4 man pre made which really isn't too much of a disadvantage anyway) here's the part where I'm unsure why people hate dynamic queue. You have just as much chance of being put on a team with a bad 4 man pre made as you do a good 4 man premade. Likewise, the other solo player also has this same chance.

It appears that the chances of your team being good or bad are the same as they were before dynamic queue because pre mades are typically matched against other pre mades. This is why I personally love dynamic queue.

-Edit: Source of numbers: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/HGblb9fH-the-2016-ranked-season-updates-on-dynamic-ranked-and-your-feedback

23 Comments

lolipopevelynn5 votes

first off you are pulling statistics straight out of your ass, thats reason enough to ignore your post entirely.

2nd there was already a thread calling lite out on his bull shit polling.

3rd, dynamic makes teams severly uneven because, 9 times out of 10, NO ONE is duoing with players of there own skill level. they are usually playing with lower ranked players to slowly boost them.

before dynamic que 3s teams and 5s teams existed for a REASON. when you are up against a team of 4 premades, all in a skype call and somewhat organized vs a team of duos and 3 other random solos it becomes supremely fucked. your team wont have nearly the communication of the enemy team and they will more than likely tilt each other because they dont know each other.

this forces you to find a duo or 3s/4s team of your own or simply not play ranked solo period. those are our options, which sucks for true solo que players such as myself.

Swollwonder2 votes

So I have a source to my numbers and you don't but my post is bull shit? Interesting.

I don't understand the boosting argument. Either they have one guy above the rest or they have one guy below the rest. Meaning theyre playing in the appropriate matchmaking regardless as they will be facing lower or higher players respectively. MMR is also a factor in matchmaking and regardless of your pre made it will still try to match you with team who have average MMR. The skype call argument is also negated by the fact that the other team has just as much chance of using skype as your team does and even if they don't, MMR is what is supposed to balance matchmaking.

PDE5 Inhib7 votes

Lyte isn't a real source. This is a guy that said <1% of the community is "toxic".

But the reason people don't like dynamic Q is because of premades. 4% of games have vs a 5 man premade isn't fun. PLUS games you have vs 4 man premade (there will be of these in each game). PLUS the games you have vs 3 man premade. Adds up pretty quickly. Then there is the typical "lock in support but go different lane" people and the people that ban your intended pick. There's also the fact that they completely eliminated ranked 5s for the new Q. So no longer can you play with your lower levels friends unless it's normals. No longer can you play and climb as a team against other teams. Also, the new Q let's you pretty much spam 1 champ a hell of a lot easier.

Swollwonder2 votes

I have never had anyone not pick their lane personally. I am sorry if this happens to you but it doesnt seem like an issue.

Are you also telling me that out of 100 of your games you cannot stand 4 of them being against 5's? Alright well can't cater to someone like that anyway

Additionally, you are ignoring that both teams have a 4 not just your enemies team. This is balanced as both team have a premade.

I agree that you cannot play with lower level elos except in normals anymore. Overall I don't think thats a big issue but that is my opinion.

P.S. ad hominen attack at the beginning. If you're not going to trust the guy who collects the data I can't really prove anything anyway.

PDE5 Inhib6 votes

{quoted}

I have never had anyone not pick their lane personally. I am sorry if this happens to you but it doesnt seem like an issue.

Are you also telling me that out of 100 of your games you cannot stand 4 of them being against 5's? Alright well can't cater to someone like that anyway

If it were just 4 games out of 100 against premades, wouldn't be an issue. But it's not. Add in the games that you are the 1 in a 4v4s game. Then add in the game you are against a 4s team without a 4 of your own. Then add in the games you are a 1 with a 4 on your team against a non 4. Then add in all the 3s.

I think you'll find it's a larger portion than you originally thought.

And the point is that people that didn't want to play with/against premades could have played soloQ. People that wanted to do it could have played ranked 5s. They removed BOTH soloQ and ranked 5s. So yes, the players that prefered those game modes are not going to be ecstatic.

Whether you personally like it or not is one thing. But I'm extremely confused as to what part of it you don't understand?

Swollwonder1 votes

I can't speak for 3's because I have no data on 3's. As for 4's you are still ignoring that out of 96% of the time you are in a 4 man team you are also facing another 4. They have just as much chance at being good or bad as the original soloque.

PDE5 Inhib4 votes

You are not very bright. I'm not ignoring that 96% of the time you are also facing another 4. I'm also saying that's why people don't like it. Reading comprehension OP.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

I can't speak for 3's because I have no data on 3's. As for 4's you are still ignoring that out of 96% of the time you are in a 4 man team you are also facing another 4. They have just as much chance at being good or bad as the original soloque.

dude, you dont get it lol. it doesnt fucking matter if its a 4 man vs another 4 man. those two solo players that are in the game? they are at the COMPLETE MERCY of the premade. if the enemy 4 man is stomping your own teams 4 man then it will fall upon the solo player to TRY and carry the game, but they can not do so when the fucking premade doesnt fucking listen and all go on hard tilt. in a solo que environment, or atleast in old solo que, even if 4 other people were getting stomped on you could still rally your teammates, make correct shot calling on drag/baron/towers and carry them to victory. it is almost impossible to do that with the fucking ego of a 4man premade that believe their petty clan team is above one silly solo person who was stupid enough to play ranked without a team.

1Maza3 votes

People will find anything to QQ about and blame for their failures. /thread

LiveYiOrDieHard2 votes

{quoted}

My ranked experience has been TREMENDOUSLY more positive since dynamic queue was implemented. I can't even remember the last time I had an afk which I had all the time in season 5.

People say they don't like it because they don't like facing pre mades but I don't understand this logic. According to riot, 98% of 4 people pre mades are matched with other 4 people pre mades and 5 man pre mades are matched with other 5 man pre mades 96% of the time.

So assuming you're not in the 4% getting matched against 5 man pre mades (which you may just be the odd ball out in a 4 man pre made which really isn't too much of a disadvantage anyway) here's the part where I'm unsure why people hate dynamic queue. You have just as much chance of being put on a team with a bad 4 man pre made as you do a good 4 man premade. Likewise, the other solo player also has this same chance.

It appears that the chances of your team being good or bad are the same as they were before dynamic queue because pre mades are typically matched against other pre mades. This is why I personally love dynamic queue.

I honestly don't care about whether my 4-man premade is good or bad, skillwise. Yeah that'll even out. But they're either really nice, or REALLY TOXIC. You think solo queuers can be toxic? You haven't seen a bad 4-man premade then. I stopped playing solo queue normals for years because of multiple instances of 4-man premades trolling me and lying blatantly to the enemy team (usually claiming I was admitting to feeding, or I was throwing racial slurs at them) in order to get me 9 man reported. And having 1 really nice 4-man premade doesn't make up for having another complete hellhole of a game thanks to one of those bad ones.

And premades do get an advantage. People who premade regularly will have slightly higher MMR. People who play solo queue won't. Need I remind you that you are ranked against the rest of the players in the ladder? Premades having an advantage means solo queuers have a disadvantage.

It also hurts the accuracy of the ranking system (but Riot already hurt the accuracy with their LP system, so it's not like this is anything new).

I'm mostly over it. I realized weeks ago Riot was lying about bringing solo queue back. So w/e. I will dodge any 4-man premades I come across though. Hopefully they warn me before the game starts.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't care about whether my 4-man premade is good or bad, skillwise. Yeah that'll even out. But they're either really nice, or REALLY TOXIC. You think solo queuers can be toxic? You haven't seen a bad 4-man premade then. I stopped playing solo queue normals for years because of multiple instances of 4-man premades trolling me and lying blatantly to the enemy team (usually claiming I was admitting to feeding, or I was throwing racial slurs at them) in order to get me 9 man reported. And having 1 really nice 4-man premade doesn't make up for having another complete hellhole of a game thanks to one of those bad ones.

And premades do get an advantage. People who premade regularly will have slightly higher MMR. People who play solo queue won't. Need I remind you that you are ranked against the rest of the players in the ladder? Premades having an advantage means solo queuers have a disadvantage.

It also hurts the accuracy of the ranking system (but Riot already hurt the accuracy with their LP system, so it's not like this is anything new).

I'm mostly over it. I realized weeks ago Riot was lying about bringing solo queue back. So w/e. I will dodge any 4-man premades I come across though. Hopefully they warn me before the game starts.

ya in the old solo que you might have 1 or 2 people being toxic, but a entire 4 man premade all being toxic and ganging up on 1 persons mistakes is PURE cancer. nothing else describes it.

Swollwonder2 votes

I mean honestly you sound pretty toxic against 4 man pre mades

But regarding your post if the argument for not doing something with toxicity is something that is an argument for banning people that deserve to be banned, not about dynamic queue.

Correct me if I am wrong but is MMR not averaged for the team to face roughly equal players? So MMR average will be roughly the same so it doesn't really matter if the premades have a higher MMR because the random player will be worse than them.

LiveYiOrDieHard2 votes

{quoted}

I mean honestly you sound pretty toxic against 4 man pre mades

But regarding your post if the argument for not doing something with toxicity is something that is an argument for banning people that deserve to be banned, not about dynamic queue.

Correct me if I am wrong but is MMR not averaged for the team to face roughly equal players? So MMR average will be roughly the same so it doesn't really matter if the premades have a higher MMR because the random player will be worse than them.

Team coordination is a huge advantage in league.

And how the hell do you figure I'm toxic against 4-man premades? The simple matter is if one of them decides they don't like what I'm doing, they're all going to start harassing me. "Harassing" is actually putting it lightly. It's not like I realize they're 4-man premades before they make it known, usually right around the time all 4 start telling me to drink bleach and go afk, right before telling the enemy team to report me for whatever reasons they can think up. I will gladly take a dodge penalty to not put up with that crap.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

So I have a source to my numbers and you don't but my post is bull shit? Interesting.

I don't understand the boosting argument. Either they have one guy above the rest or they have one guy below the rest. Meaning theyre playing in the appropriate matchmaking regardless as they will be facing lower or higher players respectively. MMR is also a factor in matchmaking and regardless of your pre made it will still try to match you with team who have average MMR. The skype call argument is also negated by the fact that the other team has just as much chance of using skype as your team does and even if they don't, MMR is what is supposed to balance matchmaking.

the "source" you linked also had numerous reds state that solo que was coming within a couple weeks. that was 2 months ago.

the main problem with dynamic que is that it FORCES you to find a duo or 3-4 man premade. if you dont you will simply have a very hard time carrying games by yourself, especially when you have ZERO control over what a 4man premade does in the game. this is just pure undeniable fact. if they are on tilt and want to ff even tho you are 20/1 and trying to carry them then they will ff regardless and probably call you trash for dying that 1 time to boot. so now its 4 yes votes to your one just because they have that control over the game, despite your ability to actually carry them.

dragon and baron calls also become impossible. they will want to do baron/drag when they want to do baron/drag. you cant get hem to group objectives for shit.

its happened to me plenty of times already. TOO many times actually. its just cancer for the game honestly.

The Queen Viper2 votes

{quoted}

It appears that the chances of your team being good or bad are the same as they were before dynamic queue because pre mades are typically matched against other pre mades.

Incorrect. Not every premade is equal, and we as a yolo player have zero control over what kind of a premade I or the enemy are going to get. It's coin flip. Unnecessary randomness added to the game.

There should be** NO SITUATION** where premades are placed with and against PUGs. It's not balanced. It's not fair. It will skew the MatchMaking and destroy ranked integrity.

Just because the numbers match (4+1 vs 4+1 for example) doesn't mean it's going to be a balanced / equal outcome.

Swollwonder2 votes

Its the same amount of randomness as soloque had though. So it doesn't really matter.

The Queen Viper3 votes

Since when 2 players are the same amount as 3 players or 4 players or 5 players?

In the old soloQ, the duo were a MINORITY. They didn't have as much impact to the game as premades do now.

And even then, people wanted the duo option to BE REMOVED FROM soloQ.

JRobin311 votes

The four man experience can't be dismissed just because four mans are matched with four mans 98% of the time. In fact, even if four mans were matched against four mans 100% of the time, there would always still be the issue of the odd man out. Someone has to fill the fifth slot and the fifth slot has to be filled 100% of the time. That's statistics.

So what is really the issue here?

The issue is team skills. Premades make team skills more important to your success at the game than they would be in a "pure" solo queue. Team skills include (but are not limited to): voice communication, team drafting, and friendly attitudes.

Some solo players don't have strong team skills. So, when they get into a game where there are premades, they generally perform worse. Other solo players have strong team skills. So when they get into a game with premades, they generally perform better.

The push for a pure solo queue is motivated by a desire to measure individual performance over other factors - in other words, a queue where team skills aren't as important to success. Because how can a solo player compete with a duo in voice chat? A duo in voice chat gets a powerful edge where they can coordinate their actions ahead of time instead of having to react to what each other are doing.

Dynamic Queue sends a powerful message to "solo" players that team skills are important to success at League of Legends and that's why some players feel that the system doesn't accurately measure them as individuals.

meh.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

I think the big point is that the ranking system loses almost all credibility.

Do player X earn their Diamond ranking, or do they just happen to be friends with a bunch of challenger players? It was bad enough that someone could get carried by a duo, but at least that's limited since you can only carry a pleb so far with 1 person. With a 5 man team though? Easy. What point is there to trying hard to rank up individually if no one knows whether you earned it or not?

I have a few other issues with it as well:

  1. I started in the old system. I developed as a player in that system. What that means is, I chose to practice with 1 champion really well in EACH role, and then supplemented those with 1-4 alternative champions in each role. The new system punishes me - it's clearly suboptimal to do anything other than main strictly 2 roles (why spend effort getting better at a role I'll literally never need to play), and yet I've put effort in to (and frankly, enjoyed playing) a select few champions in each of the 3 roles that I'll now never play again. On top of that, my champion pool was limited in the two roles I now always play, so I need to reinvest a lot of effort in to getting a bigger champion pool in those roles. I'd much rather continue playing Ahri mid occasionally than learning another couple ADCs when I'm going to pick Jinx whenever she's available, and Caitlyn most of the times she's not.

  2. There's added randomness to matchmaking. a) I can no longer pick my role in response to what has been picked (or hasn't been picked) as I'm assigned a role. If I'm assigned top and pick before the enemy top, that's that. I can't decide to go Ahri mid because they picked Xerath and I love that matchup. It's not my lane. I have to blind pick in to my secondary role, something I NEVER would have done in the past (I always went ADC or picked in to someone).

b) We have no control or knowledge over how many players on each team got primary or secondary. I've seen it on streams enough times, one challenger team has 3 people in secondary roles while the other has all 5 on primaries and it's a total stomp. In the old queue, those same players know eachother well enough to give 4 people their primary and have 1 person in their 4th or 5th best role. Even in low elo you could still look up to see if that guy begging for ADC actually does well in the role, and if so can give it to him.

  1. There's no preference given to primary roles. If your secondary role is needed, you'll get queued for it immediately. There are plenty of players complaining about queuing X/Support and only ever getting to play support. People who wanted to play support occasionally (say 20% of the time) now either play it 100% of the time or never. This also leads to longer queue times as these players stop supporting and we have fewer support players to help make teams with.

I just liked the old system better. I'm adapting to this system. I still like the game. I've accepted that we're stuck in this system and will make the best of it. I'm fully entitled to say that it's not as good as it used to be though.

Zeal Seeker1 votes

Where are you getting this information, link please

Swollwonder1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/HGblb9fH-the-2016-ranked-season-updates-on-dynamic-ranked-and-your-feedback

here you are my good sir

Stephenizgod1 votes

I enjoy Dynamic Queue as well, in fact I like it more than Solo Queue. However there are a ton of issues with Dynamic Queue.

I suppose I am just one of the few people who is not using Dynamic Queue to boost my own Rank, but I'd say a very large amount of people in Silver-Gold have been boosted through playing with higher elo friends. This is one issue with Dynamic Queue, I get teammates all the time who are so very clearly in the wrong Rank, either too good or way too bad. It creates a very large variance in skill levels, which makes games very unfun because clearly not everyone is on the same level of skill.

Another issue is Solo vs Premades, this is not an issue in lower elo because the population below Platinum is very large, but in higher elo it is a problem. I've been told by several players in higher elos that its not uncommon to go against 5 man premade teams as 5 solo players or 3 solos and a duo. Obviously this is a problem right? The premade team has a huge advantage even though they may be invidually less skilled. Normally I'd say that is ok because you should be good at cooperating more than being able to solo carry, but when one team has an advantage over the other in teamwork its not fair at all.

Finally, Dynamic Queue puts people at a higher rank than they might have been able to earn Solo, this creates a bit of hatred between them and the people who go to that Rank by themselves. This is a minor issue in my opinion because Solo Queue is mostly based on luck, the team that got the most feeders/trolls/afkers or the team with the most smurfs, this is what decides games at low elo. So its possible people are gaining higher Ranks then normal because Solo Queue is a pit of toxicity, specially at low elos.

MySpecialSauce1 votes

So, I like/hate dynamic queue.

When it comes to my team, I have noticed less toxicity and more cooperation. When it comes to the matching of my opponents, I CANNOT stand this format.

For whatever reason I keep getting matched against people that are drastically higher elo than me. I'm a shitter at this game, I want to play against other shitters, it's fun for me. What isn't fun is being bronze and playing against high gold/low plats and getting destroyed EVERY.SINGLE.GAME. It is taking the fun out of playing. I like winning, not constantly getting destroyed by people who are significantly better than I am.

Also, even if i get put on a team that has equal the amount of higher elo players like the other team, I end up dragging them down because I'm just not mechanically skilled enough. It's hard to win a game at any elo when it's a 4v5 (in terms of skill).

In the past couple months i have strayed away from ranked/normals and migrated to playing ARAM specifically for the above reasons. The game just isn't fun anymore when you aren't winning. A current example of this comes from the normal match I just finished: I was (a bronze 3) Vel'koz, they had a Plat 4 Yasuo. By 10 minutes he had doubled my cs, by 20 minutes it was an even larger gap. It makes every game an uphill battle. I'm put in a situation where I'm already at a disadvantage and it's frustrating.

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