Can we get more champs like Yasuo?

Swollwonder··319 votes·11,689 views

Wait wait wait wait wait hold your down votes people. I'm not talking about game play I'm talking about his animation. Yasuo feels alive in comparison to other champs. He sheathes his sword or puts it over his shoulder when he walks almost like an idle animation even though he's walking.

I think it would be awesome if other champions could have this walking information. It makes them so much more fun to just watch.

195 Comments

RottedApples96 votes

yasuo has always been fantastically well done. not only his animations but his voice over is great too.

Anidan18 votes

The champion overall is really well-made, kit notwithstanding. The voice-acting is pretty good, the animations are fluid and alive. He just needs some lore to build upon him and we could have a fairly solid character. The wandering ronin character isn't bad if done correctly.

Lotus Blade3 votes

YES WE NEED MORE YASUO LORE!!!

Keevalroy14 votes

You mean from a visual standpoint? Sure, he's interesting, but the kit design...it offsets any positive quality. He's without a doubt within the top 5 worst-designed champions Riot has ever made in terms of kits.

CertainlyT fanboys find this offensive. Hilarious. Keep cheering him on - he's ruining League.

AbsoluteSadman6 votes

Strip away the free crit, the wind wall and the free armpen then hed be perfectly fine.

SaltyToplaneGoat43 votes

And leave him with... nothing?

The crit is a problem, but everything else can stay pretty much how it is. Hell, they could even give him back the flow-on-dash he had on his windwall on release. Get rid of the crit, tweak his damage numbers accordingly, and maybe make an interaction when you Q or dash through a windwall.

BÄM! You got a solid, balancable champ.

Windwall was strong when he was released, but by now people know people know how to play around that.

A Miss Fortune5 votes

Windwall can't ever actually be balanced. It's very hard to use but a Yasuo main WILL abuse it ridiculously well and It's a very poor ability that should of never existed. He can potentially block an entire team's attacks and just shove it in front of you while he's taking your turret. The ability needs to be changed.

Slamurai Jack33 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=41o0AnrQ,comment-id=00010001000100000001,timestamp=2015-07-26T19:04:46.613+0000)

Windwall can't ever actually be balanced. It's very hard to use but a Yasuo main WILL abuse it ridiculously well and It's a very poor ability that should of never existed. He can potentially block an entire team's attacks and just shove it in front of you while he's taking your turret. The ability needs to be changed.

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9baksQuJhb22 votes

I Amumu don't Galio know Leona what Sejuani you're MonkeyKing talking Malphite about Rumble...

Slamurai Jack19 votes

I'm Zilean justTahmKench as Velkoz confused Zac as Swain youSoraka areShen.

9baksQuJhb6 votes

Also nobody's mentioned yet that Braum has one of those on a lower cooldown, and he can change its position (in exchange for penetration of a few things, like lux or ez ult).

I've been informed that Ez ult does not get through the shield, my bad, it's been a while.

Onegarion4 votes

Yea its funny how people just forget things like this when it doesn't help their argument. I would honestly say braums is better because it has a quicker activation and moves on top of it. Yea he doesn't block all damage like windwall, but he can stand in your way to stop more from coming at him as well as being a massive tank in front of you.

Avios12 votes

At least he is meant to block things like a tank should, Yasuo just shouldn't have his wind wall period.

Onegarion5 votes

Why? What you are giving is an opinion with no backing. Why would you take away the windwall and what would you replace it with? Simply saying "THIS IS BAD REMOVE IT." doesn't help the discussion at all.

I really get tired of people trying to "balance" things when they don't understand a thing about what real balance is. I have discussed many times with friends on what it takes to balance a champ and tried to balance a few. We even did a rework on Ashe that was almost identical to what Ashe is today. The only difference is we didn't factor the crit modifier that Riot put. Everything else was the same and that was 5 hrs of work to even get that far and thats with a basic image in mind and not from scratch.

Count Lieberkuhn8 votes

The problem is more that the skill doesn't sit as well in a melee adc champ as it does in a support champion. As it stands, Braum's main identity is he's the guy who protects your team from poke. Also, Braum's version is arguably less oppressive since he still takes some of the damage from ranged attacks and receives CC still. I think this makes it feel better to play against than Yasuo's. This is also partly due to clarity; it is easy to tell if your attack will be hit by Braum's wall, but when Yasuo fights while standing in his windwall, it can be very hit-or-miss as to whether a range attack will work.

By having Yasuo with a similar skill to Braum, the skill's uniqueness is diminished for both champions, since both occupy the same space. While this is OK for cookie cutter projectile skillshots, it is more of a problem for mechanically unique skills like the windwall, which should be a far more definitive skill. I think this works much better on Braum overall, due to his tanky support nature.

I don't think Yasuo's windwall should disappear however. Thematically, his windwall can be likened to a Samurai who can knock arrows out of the air with his blade, like in old Japanese movies. This would make far more sense if there was far more emphasis reflexes. For example, if the windwall lasted only 0.75 seconds for example (but with a reduced cooldown to compensate) Yasuo players would be able to feel good about blocking a key skillshot like a Jinx ult, without having the potential to disrupt a teamfight for a few seconds, which is a major issue with the skill. It would also result in there being less overlap between Braum and Yasuo's versions of the skill.

I have provided you an opinion with backing :) Although I think his kit has issues beyond his windwall, but I won't go into that here.

Ferus and Ferrum4 votes
  • Windwall seems to have its issues, but its lengthy cooldown and the fact that its size only scales with ability level are some forms of balance. Many people see windwall as being an skill that yasuo would be fine without as well as his crit passive. But it has to be noted that without windwall, yas would be cannon fodder to any adc that can outrange his dash. so Tristana Caitlyn Jinx Ashe KogMaw Corki Ezreal . the list goes on. Yas is a squish melee adc whose only gapcloser is almost completely team reliant. You got me on the crit passive, yas could do well with some other steroid, but yas could never in a million years take on a Vayne without windwall, when that's essentially what his champion is supposed to do. he has a had time laning against plenty of mages and assassins Annie Azir Fizz Leblanc Ahri Syndra Swain Zed Xerath Katarina , Don't bother taking him toplane against Darius Garen Fiora Irelia Jax Kayle Riven MonkeyKing Trundle. Taking any of these champs on without windwall would be hard enough, removing his damage steroid completely would ensure a loss to all of these champions on a consistent basis. The most I could ever see riot changing is his Intent passive, and giving his damage somewhere else. maybe gibbing his passive by scaling it up in q rank or something like that. as a team carry who is very reliant on one specific cc it's hard to balance him. If his team doesn't have a knockup he can be focused down before he can get a 3rd Q off. Conversely he can sit on the edge of fights and wait for some godike malph engage and the game is over. His current state seems to be annoying for those who play against him, but honestly the biggest issue would probable be windwall, other than that, there is not much for anyone to cry about in his kit.
Sozan52 votes

Ez ult doesn't penetrate his shield (nor the wind wall).

Lux ult is not blocked by either his nor Yasuo wall.

Braum's E is well designed, as there are multiple balancing factors:

**1. Blocks only projectiles coming from front **(this is huge) 2. Braum can be disabled and repositioned during it (it doesn't stop the wall from working, but it does help). 3. Braum actually takes damage (reduced) while blocking the projectiles. 4. Braum kit is a defensive one, so ability like this makes sense (he's lacking offense to do things on his own, so a lot of utility is good).

While Yasuo wall:

  1. Blocks projectiles from every direction (front, back and sides).
  2. While casting, Yasuo is completely immune to projectiles for the first 0,25s [look here for an example].
  3. Yasuo doesn't sacrifice anything for the wall to be effective (he doesn't have to position himself, doesn't use mana/energy or even health (unlike Braum)).
CasterGilgamesh3 votes

ez ult can't get through braum shield

Mecha MaIphite18 votes

I Bard think Bard he's Bard hinting Bard at Bard something.

Blue Moon Wolf33 votes

Draven this Draven list Draven needs Draven more Draven Draven Draven :p

RetroRage969 votes

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SaltyToplaneGoat6 votes

If the team is stupid enough to dump all their attacks into one windwall, then I cannot really help them. Bait it out, see when it comes, then react to it and either shoot something else or hold your mana until the wall is down.

It's like calling oriana's or Malphite's ultimate OP because some teams are too stupid to spread out properly.

Ariel the Cruel8 votes

It's like calling oriana's or Malphite's ultimate OP because some teams are too stupid to spread out properly.

Welcome to Yolo Queue.

Keevalroy1 votes

Or how about remake him from the group up with a different designer?

SaltyToplaneGoat9 votes

What a waste. Apart from the crit thing his kit is well designed for a melee dps carry.

And I'm not saying this as a yasuo player (i personally don't like playing melee carries, so my last yasuo game dates several months back...).

Narasimha2 votes

Going to take the unpopular opinion here, but Yasuo needs SOME kind of reliable steroid. It doesn't have to be crit, but it has to be something. All melee carries have one. It's kind of... standard, I guess. And the bonus armor pen doesn't really count, since it doesn't boost his damage against anyone other than tanks or bruisers.

Anidan4 votes

Don't ranged carries tend to generally get one reliable steroid and melee carries get two?

I know Tryndamere gets 2 steroids (Passive, Q), Yi gets three actually (Passive, E, Ult), Fiora got two before her rework (W passive steroid, E), Aatrox gets two (passive, W), Yasuo gets only one if you discount his ult's bonus armor penetration, and that's his passive crit.

Then we get to the ranged carries: Caitlyn only has her passive; Graves has only his dash; Varus has technically two, an on-hit that can be proc'd by abilities, and his passive; Corki has his passive; Ezreal has his passive; Tristana has her Q; Ashe has her passive; Kalista has zero, unless you want to count her soulbound ally's AA triggering the % damage, but that's not a steroid, so again, zero; Sivir has one when using Ricochet, none otherwise; MF has one; Koggy has one; Lucian has one.

Then we get to Vayne, Draven, Jinx and Twitch, all of whom have two. They're the only ranged carries with more than one, barring maybe Varus depending on how you count it, while every single melee carry, barring Yasuo, has two or more.

He does need a reliable steroid, though whether it has to be crit or not is something else entirely.

Sooko32 votes

I'd love it if this happened to Shen. Poor guy puts the blade on his back after every auto :c

Knalxz1 votes

{quoted}

I'd love it if this happened to Shen. Poor guy puts the blade on his back after every auto :c

Maybe he's a reset fighter.

windwolf7771 votes

{quoted}

Maybe he's a reset fighter.

Or what about a reset tank? That would be a first wouldn't it? (Plus I think it would be kinda cool actually.)

Knalxz2 votes

{quoted}

Or what about a reset tank? That would be a first wouldn't it? (Plus I think it would be kinda cool actually.)

OMG just thinking of the ULT in a teamfight. THE Carry will never known pain from the taunts and ults.

windwolf7771 votes

My mistake, I was thinking a reset like MasterYi where it's everything but the ult. Not like Katarina. However I don't see a problem in resetting the ult now that I think about it

Knalxz2 votes

{quoted}

My mistake, I was thinking a reset like MasterYi where it's everything but the ult. Not like Katarina. However I don't see a problem in resetting the ult now that I think about it

lol ok that seems balanced. LoL Shen resets on ults would be crazy for ganks.

Lol gets ganked, ult counter ganking jungler, taunt, kill, taunt, kill, ult mid, taunt, kill, ult bot, taunt, kill, taunt, kill, get dragon, ult back to jungler at base.

GG

Virgin Ray2 votes

The Shen Rework said he will get changes to his W and Q, I also hope they change his animations.

Dextix LT2 votes

Please dont make q a skillshot riot. Just dont. That never goes well.....

Canechurch3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=41o0AnrQ,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2015-07-26T19:26:21.435+0000)

Please dont make q a skillshot riot. Just dont. That never goes well.....

TWIST: It has 2.0 AP scaling.

TheFirstGokun1 votes

Went well for Ryze. Veigar didn't take it that bad either.

Halo5 votes

Veigar did take it bad. Really bad.

gaby1best10 votes

And maybe they will actually give him a normal katana + a Wakizashi, not 2 dull daggers.

Lãg1 votes

He's a ninja, not a samurai.

gaby1best7 votes

Who said ninjas don't use katanas?

Keevalroy29 votes

Wait wait wait wait wait hold your down votes people. I'm not talking about game play I'm talking about his animation.

Nice save, I was sent into a blind fury when I read the title.

Slamurai Jack19 votes

I'm personally of the opinion that Yasuo is one of the best designed champions in the game even from a gameplay standpoint. People like to whine about things like his double crit, shield, and the armor pen on his ult without realizing that those 3 things are the only reason Yasuo is a Melee Carry and not a Bruiser, which is definitely far healthier when you consider what his kit does. Let's say you were to strip all of those things. Obviously Yasuo would now be a terrible champion and you would have to buff his numbers massively to make him playable. This means much higher defensive base stats and much higher base damages on his abilities. You know what happens if you get that? You get on hit bruiser Yasuo, and he would build exactly like Jax does. Yasuo's kit as it currently functions forces him to build crit to do meaningful damage, forcing him into squishy builds. It also means that his power is largely gated behind items, which keeps him from having an extremely oppressive laning phase (unless you feed him).

In terms of playstyle, there is 1 very important design philosophy in regards to Yasuo that makes him far healthier than other similiar champions (Riven). In order to access his power in his kit, he has to play aggresively. His short duration shield, the stacking mechanics on both Q and E, and the fact that he can only dash on enemies necessitate that he play proactively and aggressively to reach his full potential. A Yasuo that has to play on his back foot all the time is an extremely weak champion and gets steamrolled rather easily. Contrast this to Riven who also has a kit that highly rewards aggressive play while also giving her tons of ways out of bad situations. If you catch Yasuo or he fucks up his all in, he is usually dead to rights. Riven just points her mouse towards the nearest tower and spams all her skills.

A Miss Fortune6 votes

One thing I don't like about Yasuo is how strong his early game is, if he gets off on a good start and gets a few kills, he snowballs so hard as he is a late game hypercarry whether people realize it or not. I don't like how if Yasuo gets fed, you basically have to burst him down (though he has a shield as a resource and also his windwall) before he bursts you down. Even if he gets behind he can still 1v5 as soon as he hits full build due to how his kit is. Which in my opinion is fine, as he is suppose to be strong late game. Though he's really poorly designed like of all CertainlyT's champions. I think another way to argue how poor Yasuo really is, is the creator of this champion. He also has made:

-Darius, who invalidates almost all melee champions and while receiving plenty of nerfs, is still fairly strong -Zyra who had a 63%+ winrate and had to be immediately nerfed -Thresh who after receiving nerfs, is still one of the best supports and the most popular -Kalista who is easily the most overpowered champion of this Season and after receiving hard nerfs, still is pick-or-ban in the LCS

I think after examining how all of CertainlyT's champions with maybe the exception of Thresh were huge failures and all of them were game-breaking at a time, you can definitely see that there would be a lot of reason to go against Yasuo being balanced without arguing with opinions.

viken5 votes

Honestly, I don't defend CertainlyT to heaven and back but he takes blame for like way more than he should. Yes, Yasuo was broken on release with WAY too many passives, and yes, Kalista was an absolute abomination that should never have made it past the drawing board. But as far as I know, he's not the one that comes up with the numbers for anything; Live Balance or some other team does that. Yasuo got numbers tuned and he's un-fun, but moderately healthy now. Darius is a lane bully that refuses to scale into anything, which is all right imo. Zyra was ridiculous, then nerfed to trash-tier where she is left today, which isn't really his fault. TL;DR CertainlyT doesn't deserve so much hate, but he's broken the game before which gives him a bad rep.

ElJanitorFrank4 votes

Yasuo wan't broken on release, really. People didn't know how to play him, so his winrates sucked, and they buffed him up at about the same time people learned him. He went to being 'just another new champion' to 'oh god please save us from this nightmare abomination'.

TheFirstGokun2 votes

In terms of balancing a champion CertainlyT needs to take a few classes, but you gotta admit that the man knows how to make a fun champion. Darius just feels mmmMMMMMMMM so smooth to play as do Yasuo and Thresh. Their combos are all smooth and intuitive, he tends to bring new mechanics to the table and in general I love all the champions he's made. Sure, it sucks when they're overpowered, but they're fun as hell and I think we should acknowledge that. CertainlyT, learn to use that Nerfhammer, but keep doing what you do.

1000angrybees15 votes

Im surprised people stopped to read this thread and didnt just straight downvote you.

Toa of Death12 votes

sees title oh boy I get to use my new pitchfork! reads post awwww.

B1naryB0t7 votes

Advice, if you want to suggest we have more champs like X because of animations and stuff, put it in art, not gameplay and balance, otherwise people will think you're wanting another kit like his, and honestly, who wants that?

But yes, I love his animations.

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