Zed is balanced, l2p

Talamare·Feb 1, 2015·110 votes·6,762 views

Dominating NA and EU LCS

Guess the best players in the world don't know how to play

123 Comments

DestructoDaveFeb 1, 201536 votes

It's been pretty obvious for a while how stupid Zed is. When mids are forced to rush armguard and skip mana regen just for a chance to survive a melee champion, and still get out poked/sustained/wave-cleared, you know there is a problem.

Hes just too safe, too forgiving, and too good. I think losing his ability to clear waves so easily would go a long ways in balancing him out. As many have mentioned before, his skills need to do less to minions at the very least.

Killer X 12Feb 1, 20154 votes

Honestly you should be getting armguard against any AD melee when you are a soft ap mid. You should be respecting your match ups. lol Your build has to be adapted to your enemy.

DirewolfiezFeb 1, 201513 votes

The point is, against a lot of AD assassins you can just sit on armguard and get mana regen. If you do that with Zed, you're putting yourself at a larger risk than normal.

Killer X 12Feb 1, 20153 votes

Buy double doran's rings. I do this on any champ i do not build mana regen on, i do not run out of mana, and i do not ask for blue buff.

PæanFeb 2, 20152 votes

I do the same when i play Cass, with my passive restoring health per twin fang I can infinite mana and hp when played right. I can bully a zed out of lane forever and if he ults me then i can ult him and twin fang and Q him to death.

Rew711Feb 2, 20151 votes

I think the best counter for Zed is Anavia. She slows, stuns, and blocks (with a revive).

Or, if you play her right, Karma. Able to deal bonus damage on her next spell and all.

And lets not forget about Swain.

shadecrapperFeb 2, 20152 votes

Fizz before nurf was alright too, but way more maneuvering and dodging stuff then I wanted. But now fizz cant out trade anyone pre 6

B1naryB0tFeb 1, 20157 votes

You should. But since you must rush something besides your mana item (which BTW, this item is negated by an early item 3134 ) you sacrifice a lot of your ability to clear waves, get income, and effectively put you miles behind him, as he's able to safely poke and clear waves with endless energy.

Killer X 12Feb 1, 20151 votes

It gives you flat armor pen, you do get more armor from a seeker's than the brute removes. I'm not saying Zed is a "fair" match up, i do have a fair amount of friends who hate it, but i dont' think all match ups should be fair. He has poke, i have poke. He can dodge, i can dodge. I might lose wave clear and as such he can roam more, so i buy extra wards. I'll still be able to farm under tower if he pushes. While i myself am not a great zed, i do not have issues in the match up (perhaps because of my champs or perhaps how i build). I'm fine with Zed's strengths, tho i'd like his ult shadow to have a shorter duration.

FrikgeekFeb 2, 20154 votes

Here's the thing. When you dodge his spells, you gain nothing. When he dodges your spells he's gradually draining your mana. Also, he'll get to every jungle or dragon fight faster than you because he has endless waveclear. Maybe there aren't any good Zeds in gold that are able to really abuse that champ.

Killer X 12Feb 2, 20151 votes

You took a cool down. Most AP mids have more than one ranged ability, also most ap mids are ranged. Punish with auto attacks or your secondary ranged ability. If he uses his shadow that is a long CD. A good zed isn't going to keep popping his shadow in lane for the additional poke...since he knows any competent jungle will come in after the lane is pushed.

FrikgeekFeb 2, 20152 votes

Oh yeah, a 6s CD, less when he gets brut and boots. What a huge window of opportunity.

Punish with auto attacks

Enjoy getting your ass handed to you by creep aggro. Seriously, unless you're Annie or Anivia you shouldn't rely on autos for poke, they WILL draw creep aggro while abilities won't.

And when he dodges your abilities, he gets the same opportunity you do, except he's better at all inning, and you will eventually run out of mana while he won't.

Killer X 12Feb 3, 20152 votes

A window of opportunity IS a window of opportunity. I'm sorry its too small for you to take advantage of.

Are you telling me that you don't know how to hit a melee laner with ranged auto attacks without taking minion aggro...or how to drop it if you do? I certainly hope you are kidding.

FrikgeekFeb 3, 20152 votes

Look, I get it, you're gold and you don't understand how a melee laner SHOULD position when their CDs are down. He should be behind his wave so that if he gets auoted you won't be able to drop it quickly, especially since there are no lane bushes in mid. Caster creeps deal 21 damage per auto, 2 autos from a wave of 3 is 126 damage(minus armour, of course). That means you'd have to drop the aggro within 1.1 seconds to avoid the damage. Zed's Q has 900 range, more than enough to lasthit with it and still be 100 range behind his own caster creeps. To auto him you'd have to walk in range of his casters UNLESS you have more than 550 range, which only Anivia(600) and Annie(625) have, unless you're playing an adc in mid.

Also, with just a brutalizer that Q is on a 5,1s CD(with 5% from masteries and 10% from brut). That's just about enough to get every lasthit with it, meaning he never has to actually come into melee range where he's vulnerable to harras. To punish him you'd have to massively overextend and make yourself vulnerable to both ganks and his living shadow-shadow slash combo(550 range).

There's a reason he's picked so much and does so well in both LCS and high Elo games.

DeusVultFeb 1, 201517 votes

Yes you probably build to fight your enemy, but here's the thing. EVERY AP champ has to go armguard or get raped by Zed, meanwhile he builds brutalizer and gets rid of the bonus armor anyway, while also increasing his damage.

And I have never seen a zed ever get a item 3155 Shouldn't he have to respect the enemies damage too?

Father CthulhuFeb 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Yes you probably build to fight your enemy, but here's the thing. EVERY AP champ has to go armguard or get raped by Zed, meanwhile he builds brutalizer and gets rid of the bonus armor anyway, while also increasing his damage.

And I have never seen a zed ever get a Shouldn't he have to respect the enemies damage too?

If you don't get hex against a mage like LB or Syndra as Zed, then you're bad and you should feel bad

SorryBoysImLesFeb 1, 20159 votes

{quoted}

It's been pretty obvious for a while how stupid Zed is. When mids are forced to rush armguard and skip mana regen just for a chance to survive a melee champion, and still get out poked/sustained/wave-cleared, you know there is a problem.

Hes just too safe, too forgiving, and too good. I think losing his ability to clear waves so easily would go a long ways in balancing him out. As many have mentioned before, his skills need to do less to minions at the very least.

What's stupid is how bullsh*t of a champion he is and his mains/players know it.

There's a reason a majority (at least 9/10 I've encountered) will spam laugh while their "Free 6 minion wave" ability is on it's 6s CD. They know even if you have the upper hand early game and can lock them under tower, you still don't have the upper hand and are not denying them in any way.

Then if you don't and it's going the other way, they have no repercussions for over-extending.

HawkefireFeb 2, 20157 votes

Honestly I am pretty sure they are spamming /laugh because Zeds laugh is one of the best laughs in the game.

NagirahFeb 2, 20154 votes

No match for my Leblanc and Lux . Still good though.

Kitten of EvilFeb 2, 20152 votes

Yeah, Lux has a better laugh. Hers is my favorite. Well, also Kog's.

pls update shyFeb 2, 20155 votes

Can confirm, I went 0/4 as a Zed in lane and still spammed laugh the entire time. #wurth

aperson1Feb 1, 201510 votes

I think it's ridiculous how Riot (and people in general) consider Zed to be a "high-counterplay" champion. He has 1 dodge-able ability. ONE. And the most common builds for him are BoRK and Youmuu's - somehow I get the feeling the attack speed and move speed on those items isn't meant to pump damage into his skillshot.

Does Zed have higher counterplay than, say, Talon? Sure. Is he high-counterplay? No.

AltricadFeb 2, 201515 votes

Imagine if Talon had silence lasting as long as Garen , and all riot did was slightly scratch his attack speed.

That's the rage people are feeling right now. These zed mains are really dense if they think zed is in a relatively good spot right now

alagoreFeb 2, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Imagine if had silence lasting as long as , and all riot did was slightly scratch his attack speed.

That's the rage people are feeling right now. These zed mains are really dense if they think zed is in a relatively good spot right now

Oh he is in a good spot. Everyone else is too weak.

AltricadFeb 2, 20154 votes

that's why I said *relatively.

And if you scroll down, you'll see that i said the same :P everyone else is weak

HawkefireFeb 2, 20153 votes

Honestly, the only really overbearing problem with Zed is the fact that he waveclears so easily

bradFeb 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

It's been pretty obvious for a while how stupid Zed is. When mids are forced to rush armguard and skip mana regen just for a chance to survive a melee champion, and still get out poked/sustained/wave-cleared, you know there is a problem.

Hes just too safe, too forgiving, and too good. I think losing his ability to clear waves so easily would go a long ways in balancing him out. As many have mentioned before, his skills need to do less to minions at the very least.

im getting downvoted for this
you dont have to rush armguard
the 50% base regen from forbiddon idol doesnt help you win lane against zed, or any fucking mid laner for that matter
that 50% is not the difference from you going oom and you not
the only stupid thing about zed is the fact that his ult can put him in, and teleport him back out when shit hits the fan
im getting downvoted for this, and since this is basically reddit, my comment is going to get hidden

why did i take the time to type this

ZoofFeb 2, 20158 votes

You're actually right on pretty much all your points, I just think what people hate is that if Zed is winning lane, he shoves you to tower and you have to use mana to cs properly, plus he might also dive you. If you are winning and shove the Zed to tower, his passive along with the energy allows him to cs almost freely under tower and while he might take some damage from your harrass, you're in a terribly easy position to be ganked provided you aren't a high mobility mid.

I think the problem people have with zed is that he is one of those champs that can always out play you, but you can rarely outplay them sort of thing.

OperationDEEZ1Feb 2, 20151 votes

I don't see the problem with mana regen, I play Anivia and a couple Q+Es sends him packing. He can't kill me in my egg without help. And where does Anivia excel? Close range. Where does Zed have to be to all-in you? Close range.

AltricadFeb 2, 20155 votes

I kinda agree with you, played a few games as anivia and rekt him in laning phase.

Problem is, zed can play VERY safely in laning phase and keep the wave pushed and try to roam, and chasing down a roaming zed is a death flag.

While Anivia does have the tools to burst down Zed, once he reaches >300 AD he can auto anivia to death due to his broken scaling passive.

And annoying as it is, zed appears BEHIND the target he ultis.

The UNSEEN blade is the deadliest Zed

SerageFeb 2, 20155 votes

Meanwhile Akali is crippled to 42% winrate. She can't ult to an enemy kill him and go back in 1500 range. Akali has to go ALL IN all the time (no one can tell me, that akali can HIDE in her shroud in a full teamfight).

shadecrapperFeb 2, 20153 votes

And dropping a pink will show her any way. So her "great" escape is blown up by 100 gp lol

OnegarionFeb 2, 20156 votes

or an upgraded Scanner.

Auz the RipperFeb 2, 20154 votes

That way we don't have to waste the pink!

Hyrum GraffFeb 2, 20152 votes

Tbh, all he really needs is a tweak to his costs / regen. He wasn't OP before the mana changes (just strong) and he wouldn't be if he had the same kind of costs as mages do.

AltricadFeb 1, 201532 votes

Actually, Zed is balanced

EVERYONE ELSE GOT NERFED

Before, if zed started roaming mages like Ziggs Syndra Orianna can shove the wave very quickly and take down his turret. They used to be able to poke him down constantly and keep him near half-hp, preventing succesful roams.

Now, zed can out-mana-sustain them and start roaming when they go oom.

Very few champions can keep up with his previously-strong, now OP waveclear. Namely Xerath ( mana restore), Malzahar ( space aids) , Heimerdinger ( natural pusher).

Lissandra , contrary to popular belief was hit the hardest. Her natural mana-regen is the LOWEST among mages.

And as for champions that can match his roam potential, they were gutted Khazix Talon

EDIT: Since people are starting to think i want zed to remain the way he is, no, just f*king no.

Reverting the mana nerfs/giving Tolan his silence/giving kha his mid playstyle/ buffing his counters would bring about the fall of the Zed empire

AlphariteFeb 1, 20152 votes

People's rage has given them memory loss. Has everyone forgetten the league of poke in August when Zed had to be buffed?

Oh wait, they were too busy crying over whoever was percieved OP then.

Focus TeemoFeb 1, 201529 votes

{quoted}

Actually, Zed is balanced

EVERYONE ELSE GOT NERFED

Before, if zed started roaming mages like can shove the wave very quickly and take down his turret. They used to be able to poke him down constantly and keep him near half-hp, preventing succesful roams.

Now, zed can out-mana-sustain them and start roaming when they go oom.

Very few champions can keep up with his previously-strong, now OP waveclear. Namely ( mana restore), ( space aids) , ( natural pusher).

, contrary to popular belief was hit the hardest. Her natural mana-regen is the LOWEST among mages.

And as for champions that can match his roam potential, they were gutted

The Quest for balance part 1 :P

Zed But balance is weakness... Shen Not anymore(summons Morello's nerf bat) Zed Noooo summoner 14 item 3113 Shen Ahri your next. Ahri But... but... fine

MEANWHILE.

Xerath All according to plan. Azir Soon we will be the only viable mids left. Ziggs They might buff me eventually.... can i join? Xerath Shut up the forums have always hated you Ziggs What did i do? Azir You were viable AND popular... that can not be allowed Talon Why do you think they nerfed me for NO reason. Yasuo Pretty sure people still want me nerfed for my Winwall... Malzahar Maybe if they continue to be nerfed i'll be picked again.... pls Anivia People only remember me because of Froggen.. pls love me Gragas Can i come back to mid lane now guys? Veigar They took my DFG item 3070 Xerath Shut up all of you, this is my lane now. Ziggs Won't you be nerfed like us? Xerath FOOL! Nobody picks me... for some reason Azir And i make #lcsbigplays Xerath We are immune to nerfs, now Azir summon our throne Azir We ascend {{summoner:10}} {{summoner:17}} Garen Not if i stop you! Azir Your no longer archmage... Riot removed DFG. Garen Yes but with my staff of unlimited power gone, i was forced to turn to the dark side of magic... Xerath So what... you're a Sith now or something? Garen No i have become a necromancer item 3512 ! Malzahar Hey that's my thing! They're even from the void... Garen You're still here? item 3070 Xerath This is because Gnar is broken isn't it? Garen NO.......... ok maybe

RetillinFeb 2, 20153 votes

This, was, epic.

DeusVultFeb 1, 20159 votes

Yes, everyone else might have gotten nerfed, but that doesn't mean that zed is balance because he wasn't

If A=B=C=D, but then A,B and C get reduced by 20%, D doesn't become the model of whats balanced, it becomes the exception, as even though nothing was done to it, it is still ahead of the others. A,B and C are now the new standard of balance and D has to be brought in line.

Also, I personally don't believe that Zed is balanced. But maybe that's because I am bias against champs that have no real costs on their skills, incredible waveclear, poke, mobility, safety, low CD's and are also AA reliant. I was fine when poke mages existed, because they had to spend 2600-4500 gold in order to have low CD's and the mana to spam. Zed just does all that because he is zed

DarksideEricFeb 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Yes, everyone else might have gotten nerfed, but that doesn't mean that zed is balance because he wasn't

If A=B=C=D, but then A,B and C get reduced by 20%, D doesn't become the model of whats balanced, it becomes the exception, as even though nothing was done to it, it is still ahead of the others. A,B and C are now the new standard of balance and D has to be brought in line.

This would suggest that the weakest Champion in the game is the "new standard of balance".

AMYS GRAVEFeb 2, 20153 votes

no, it suggests that the average champion in the game is the standard of balance, not the outliers. Zed shouldn't be used to balance in the same way that (insert weakest champion in lol i don't want to start that argument now) shouldn't be used to balance, because they are the outliers.

CaelerFeb 2, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Actually, Zed is balanced

Okay, let's see your evidence...

Now, zed can out-mana-sustain them and start roaming when they go oom.

Very few champions can keep up with his previously-strong, now OP waveclear.

Wait, what? Sounds like you're contradicting yourself to me. If his waveclear is OP, then he isn't balanced.

And as for champions that can match his roam potential, they were gutted

Okay, so he has ridiculous waveclear and roam potential. Therefore he is balanced. I don't see your line of reasoning here.

EVERYONE ELSE GOT NERFED

That doesn't matter. If he is overall stronger than them by comparison, then he's OP.

KiseFeb 2, 20154 votes

dw guys he's getting his attack speed reduced

Markus VakarianFeb 2, 20156 votes

attack speed is not the problem on assassins

FulI SendFeb 2, 20151 votes

I'm pretty sure you people need to stop whining, you wanna win against a zed?

First things first. Get good. After that just grab exhaust and hour glass if your ap or qss if your ad.

Simple simple simple

Ash LockheartFeb 2, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure you people need to stop whining, you wanna win against a zed?

First things first. Get good. After that just grab exhaust and hour glass if your ap or qss if your ad.

Simple simple simple

If its that simple players wouldn't complain about him in the first place. I am pretty sure most players have tryed simple items to change the battle. His early game is to strong, and he does need some fixing. You may not agree, but the idea that a champ can dive at 6 and get free kills with not much risk is pretty Op in my book.

JamnonFeb 2, 201512 votes

Pro teams lose against Zed. Therefore pro teams are not good.

ømgFeb 2, 20153 votes

SKT T1 K was a very weak Korean team at the time but went to dominate 2014 Allstars. Asian teams were top 4 at 2014 worlds. Therefore your "pro teams" are not good relatively speaking, meaning yes in being sarcastic your literal meaning was correct.

Zed dominating in LCS (I don't want the amateur scene, but I'll take your word and OP's as well for it) Zed is not dominating in LPL but more importantly not dominating in LCK either. Therefore LCS teams need to get gud and emulate/copy/learn from the best as they always have in the past. American meta catches up to Korean meta in due time, we just need to be patient.

And now Korea has even less incentive to pick/ban Zed. He was hardly used or seen as a threat to begin with. Ggoong's Zed can cause them to respect ban him, but that's about it.