Does Yasuo really need 15 seconds of 50% Armor Penetration

Talamare·Dec 30, 2014·94 votes·7,395 views

I am not against him having it, but does it really need to last a MASSIVE 15 seconds?

Even something like 8 seconds would still be an incredibly long time

152 Comments

JunkοDec 30, 201429 votes

As a Yasuo player, 15 seconds is WAY too much, even 50% is too much. You can already kill most spuishies once you get Stattik+IE, not to mention you will almost always also buy a LW eventually. I honestly think it should be removed all together so he can get some other strengths back like E charging his shield and dashes stacking 4 times, etc...

SnowplosionDec 30, 20142 votes

Well the ult does not damage itself...

killd0zerDec 30, 201419 votes

... yes it does?

SnowplosionJan 1, 20151 votes

It doesn't do a lot of damage. I thought everybody would kinda figure out what I meant on their own. Idiots.

DirewolfiezJan 1, 20151 votes

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 200 / 300 / 400 (+ 150% bonus AD)

Scales better than his Q, and it benefits from its own armor pen steroid. Yeah, his ult is fucking useless.

SnowplosionJan 1, 20151 votes

Did I ever say its was useless. I definitely doesn't scale 150% AD. If you got that from the wiki it says Renekton q scales 90%. Don't trust everything you see at the sites.

DirewolfiezJan 1, 20151 votes

http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/yasuo/

Prove me wrong, then, instead of just claiming it's BS without any evidence.

SnowplosionJan 3, 20151 votes

Check in game bud. If u have 300 ad ur not gonna get a bonus of 450. Also riot says renekton q scales 80% ad... its not even close.

Note: just checked in game at start had 60 ad. Bonus given in game 0.

DirewolfiezJan 4, 20151 votes

Screenshots or STFU. Anyone can claim literally anything happened in-game. I don't have Yasuo, or I do it myself.

SnowplosionJan 4, 20151 votes

So you don't Yas while i do and ur arguing on the damage. So can u plz tell me how to take a screen shot in game with a mac.

DirewolfiezJan 8, 20151 votes

There's this thing called Google, and it's really easy to use. I really don't think I should have to school you on how to take a screenshot when you have a working internet connection.

killd0zerJan 2, 20151 votes

Agreed. This one idiot tried to say Yasuo's ult did no damage. Then he tried to save face like 5 times and he kept being wrong.

Stars ShaperDec 30, 201414 votes

BONUS ARMOR Penetration.

ANd yes since his only way to deal damage is Q and he can be suppressed like a minion.

TalamareDec 30, 20147 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-30T10:42:43.022+0000)

BONUS ARMOR Penetration.

ANd yes since his only way to deal damage is Q and he can be suppressed like a minion.

Yes, yes he counters tanks and again I am completely fine with him having it

I'm just a little shocked by the insane duration

Stars ShaperDec 30, 20142 votes

Yasuo needs high duration because out because he needs to deliver several attacks in order to be effective and also he is suppressable like a fly

aWildFizzAppearsDec 30, 201412 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-30T11:04:09.055+0000)

Yasuo needs high duration because out because he needs to deliver several attacks in order to be effective and also he is suppressable like a fly

Actually, all he needs to do to be effective is land a QR on 2-3 members of the enemy team during a team fight, followed by over 1000 damage from the Q, his ult, shiv, and an auto attack/E. Literally changes the course of enemy team fight.

Stars ShaperDec 30, 20141 votes

If you forget that he can be shutdown and killed in the time of an hard CC.

I've never failed against a Yasuo.

Slushi SimcambiDec 30, 201425 votes

"Can be killed by hard cc"

Oh so, basically, ANY CHAMPION IN THE GAME.

DurzakaDec 30, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slushi Simcambi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-30T17:34:12.168+0000)

"Can be killed by hard cc"

Oh so, basically, ANY CHAMPION IN THE GAME.

Hard CC a Mundo, or Irelia and see how effective that is at stopping them.

Or hard CC a Malphite and see how many shits he gives.

CC effects different champions to a different degree of severity. Dive heavy squishy champions are effected much more heavily that tanky/resistant champions.

Also, are we still seriously complaining about Yasuo, @OP? He has been nearly garbage tier for like 3 months now. His last nerf knee capped him and he hasnt recovered since.

Mr Wright IIDec 30, 20145 votes

so yes, a few champions who you know, are anti CC...? thats the point of them... and still... cc still stop their damage for a few milseconds, which can be all you need for a darius to ult? so really... cc does

DurzakaDec 30, 20141 votes

{quoted}

so yes, a few champions who you know, are anti CC...? thats the point of them... and still... cc still stop their damage for a few milseconds, which can be all you need for a darius to ult? so really... cc does

CC a malphite, then CC a Master Yi.

Which of them is still capable of doing their job without any trouble?

You dont need to have anti cc to make CC less effective on you.

Mr Wright IIDec 30, 20143 votes

I dont understand this question, they both can, Malphite is SUPPOSE to tank cc, so he is, master gay? no matter what you do he'll do his job, so, wheres your point

DurzakaDec 30, 20141 votes

{quoted}

I dont understand this question, they both can, Malphite is SUPPOSE to tank cc, so he is, master gay? no matter what you do he'll do his job, so, wheres your point

Hit Master Yi with a stun in a team fight, guess what happens? He dies before it runs out.

Hit Malphite with a stun in a team fight, guess what happens? He shrugs it off, and continues to deal damage and CC the enemy team.

Mr Wright IIDec 30, 20144 votes

first, if master yi sees a CC heavy team, he'll get merc treads and and i QSS

DurzakaDec 30, 20142 votes

{quoted}

first, if master yi sees a CC heavy team, he'll get merc treads and and i QSS

Counter building doesnt negate counter play.

The counterplay still exists and is still a viable counter.

Mr Wright IIDec 30, 20142 votes

if their entire team plays just to counter him, they'll get raped by everyone else so...? like a yasuo!

DurzakaDec 30, 20142 votes

{quoted}

if their entire team plays just to counter him, they'll get raped by everyone else so...? like a yasuo!

Who the hell said anything about an entire team?

The situation i gave was a fucking example. Stop taking it like it is the world. It is easier to talk about 2 champions than to explain why there are 35 or 40 more or just shrug off CC when compared to those who get wrecked by it.

ZoofJan 1, 20151 votes

What you're comparing though is this: A tank that WANTS TO TAKE CC FOR HIS TEAM, he takes 2 seconds of cc and probably nothing happens since he just did his fucking job. A melee carry that wants to do maximum DPS, any hard cc prevents this, thus hurting him A ranged ad carry that wants to do maximum DPS, any hard and most soft cc prevents him from dealing damage as he has to burn escapes to not be one hit by their Irelia A mage wants to burst someone, but get's stunned has to pop zhonyas or die in most situations

Seriously any carry that gets cced is going to have a bad time, you're comparing champions like Garen, Naut and Malph to Yasuo, Jinx and Lux. The tank's job is to take cc, the carries job is to avoid it and deal damage.

DurzakaJan 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What you're comparing though is this: A tank that WANTS TO TAKE CC FOR HIS TEAM, he takes 2 seconds of cc and probably nothing happens since he just did his fucking job. A melee carry that wants to do maximum DPS, any hard cc prevents this, thus hurting him A ranged ad carry that wants to do maximum DPS, any hard and most soft cc prevents him from dealing damage as he has to burn escapes to not be one hit by their Irelia A mage wants to burst someone, but get's stunned has to pop zhonyas or die in most situations

Seriously any carry that gets cced is going to have a bad time, you're comparing champions like Garen, Naut and Malph to Yasuo, Jinx and Lux. The tank's job is to take cc, the carries job is to avoid it and deal damage.

That is the entire point.

You literally just explained in another way how CC affects different champions to different degrees, and while saying CC someone is a viable thing.

BrutalCabbageDec 30, 20143 votes

{quoted}

Yes, yes he counters tanks and again I am completely fine with him having it

I'm just a little shocked by the insane duration

He needs it, actually. It's his only source of Armor Pen in teamfights, since he can no longer reliably build Last Whisper (he needs two defensive items). 15 seconds is just about what he needs for a full teamfight, supposed he gets to ult succesfully.

Ale non è maleDec 30, 20143 votes

{quoted}

He needs it, actually. It's his only source of Armor Pen in teamfights, since he can no longer reliably build Last Whisper (he needs two defensive items). 15 seconds is just about what he needs for a full teamfight, supposed he gets to ult succesfully.

LW? BoTRK (technically not armor pen but bypasses armor anyway) or Yomuu are way better since they give also AS and allow Yasuo do to more damage through more AAs

MinuanoDec 30, 20142 votes

Armor counters BoTRK.

Ale non è maleDec 31, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Armor counters BoTRK.

False. Armor does nothing vs BoTRK (except for the 25 AD given by it, but no one buys BoTRK for that). BoTRK work exclusively upon target health(current/max depending on passive/active), so it doesn't basically matter the amount of armor against it The armor items that counter BoTRK are Thornmail because it deals BoTRK damage back upon his passive and Frozen hearth that reduce the amount of times BoTRK can deal his damage, and both don't amplify BoTRK damage since they don't give health

PatMcGroynJan 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-31T15:15:47.979+0000)

False. Armor does nothing vs BoTRK (except for the 25 AD given by it, but no one buys BoTRK for that). BoTRK work exclusively upon target health(current/max depending on passive/active), so it doesn't basically matter the amount of armor against it The armor items that counter BoTRK are Thornmail because it deals BoTRK damage back upon his passive and Frozen hearth that reduce the amount of times BoTRK can deal his damage, and both don't amplify BoTRK damage since they don't give health

Wtf? Of course Armor mitigates BotRK damage, as it does all physical damage. The active, the passive, and the actual stats it gives - Atk Spd, AD... ALL those stats are mitigated by armor.

Ale non è maleJan 1, 20151 votes

How does armor mitigate Atk speed? And yeah, theoretically Armor mitigate BoTRK Damage, BUT armor itemization forces you also to build health, except for item 3075 , item 3110 , item 3025 (that can't be built by anybody as its armor is kinda low and mana and AP got wasted on a good amount of champ), and item 3026 (which has low armor anway) health which amplify a lot BoTRK damage (after all, BoTRK was created to counter health), so basically when you get armor through the itemization you increase damage dealt by BoTRK, unless you don't build Thornmail or Frozen Heart, of course

PatMcGroynJan 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000020000,timestamp=2015-01-01T17:03:49.792+0000)

How does armor mitigate Atk speed? And yeah, theoretically Armor mitigate BoTRK Damage, BUT armor itemization forces you also to build health, except for , , (that can't be built by anybody as its armor is kinda low and mana and AP got wasted on a good amount of champ), and (which has low armor anway) health which amplify a lot BoTRK damage (after all, BoTRK was created to counter health), so basically when you get armor through the itemization you increase damage dealt by BoTRK, unless you don't build Thornmail or Frozen Heart, of course

Armor mitigates the damage the AA damage that Attack Speed enhances, was my point. Armor mitigates ALL physical damage, and is therefore a counter to BotRK. It doesn't make BotRK useless, because it's a great item, but it is the proper stat to build to mitigate BotRK's damage. Also, because building health technically increases the Passive % health damage of BotRK, whereas building flat Armor only mitigates BotRK's damage.

PatMcGroynJan 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000020000,timestamp=2015-01-01T17:03:49.792+0000)

so basically when you get armor through the itemization you increase damage dealt by BoTRK, unless you don't build Thornmail or Frozen Heart, of course

This is also false. Say you build a Randuin's, which gives you 500 Health and 70 Armor. Say your champ already has 80 armor when you build it, and has 2k health, so you now have 2.5k health and 150 armor. Having 150 armor means you take 60% less physical damage (compared to 80 armor, which mitigates around 45% of physical damage); that 70 armor means you take over 33.3% less physical damage than before. With Randuin's, at full health, the damage BotRK passive will do on hit is 80 damage; without Randuin's, you will take 88 damage at full health.

The ratios are similar with Sunfire Cape and Ohmwrecker (the only other health + armor items).

Ale non è maleJan 1, 20151 votes

Except that you make your enemy spend 2850 gold in a defensive item to absorb basically 0 damage and you can spend those money to get extra damage on him Plus a lot of tanky champs have more than 2k health late game with their base health, and you are assuming this champ buy 0 health through the other items, which is really not likely for a champ that goes through a defensive itemization path (a guy that build a Randuin is likely going to build AT LEAST some hundred extra health through MR defensive items like SV or Aegis items)

A Fiery RundasDec 30, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Yes, yes he counters tanks and again I am completely fine with him having it

I'm just a little shocked by the insane duration

Does Darius having 20 secs of being able to use his ult if he kills someone with it too long?

Father CthulhuDec 30, 20147 votes

Does Darius having 20 secs of being able to use his ult if he kills someone with it too long?

Actually, no. Not only does it cost 100 mana every time(which sometimes really screws you over if you've been in combat long enough), but there's not very often that you get to use it more the two or three times per ult. Not only that, but for your ult to be very good, you have to stack passives on people. And that usually takes anywhere from 5-10 seconds.

A Fiery RundasDec 30, 20143 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Galifrey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2014-12-30T18:04:59.439+0000)

Actually, no. Not only does it cost 100 mana every time(which sometimes really screws you over if you've been in combat long enough), but there's not very often that you get to use it more the two or three times per ult. Not only that, but for your ult to be very good, you have to stack passives on people. And that usually takes anywhere from 5-10 seconds.

Yeah, I just played Darius again, that take sous so much mana.

The Bard DogDec 30, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Fiery Rundas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=00000000000200000000,timestamp=2014-12-30T21:58:08.820+0000)

Yeah, I just played Darius again, that take sous so much mana.

5-10 seconds to stack passive? maybe if you suck. it should be 5 seconds at max if you're using your skills right. not to mention darius has GOD-TIERED tower pushing skills if you build full ad with a triforce.

inb4 you have to go tanky as darius. tanky darius sucks ass late game. full ad darius melts carries before they even have a chance to flash away from his e+w combo. not to mention if you have a ravenous hydra, bt, triforce, and ie, chances are you're 1 shotting all squishies, 3 shotting all tanks, and vamping for 32% of your sick 2000 damage w crits.

Grunt666Dec 31, 20141 votes

{quoted}

5-10 seconds to stack passive? maybe if you suck. it should be 5 seconds at max if you're using your skills right. not to mention darius has GOD-TIERED tower pushing skills if you build full ad with a triforce.

inb4 you have to go tanky as darius. tanky darius sucks ass late game. full ad darius melts carries before they even have a chance to flash away from his e+w combo. not to mention if you have a ravenous hydra, bt, triforce, and ie, chances are you're 1 shotting all squishies, 3 shotting all tanks, and vamping for 32% of your sick 2000 damage w crits.

Holy shot I hate retards... Do you ever thing like ever? You literally just said building full add Darius you can walk into a team get 5 stacks over 5 seconds and not be blown the fuck up and cc'd to high hell..... Seriously you are a fuking moron never ever post again you worthless stupid pile of dogshit.

The Bard DogJan 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Holy shot I hate retards... Do you ever thing like ever? You literally just said building full add Darius you can walk into a team get 5 stacks over 5 seconds and not be blown the fuck up and cc'd to high hell..... Seriously you are a fuking moron never ever post again you worthless stupid pile of dogshit.

you don't have to get 5 stacks. just pull in carries, melt them in 2 hits, and then leave. also, whoa there buddy calm down.

GunpointDec 30, 20144 votes

{quoted}

Yes, yes he counters tanks and again I am completely fine with him having it

I'm just a little shocked by the insane duration

He counters tanks... and then everything else? His damage half hits all squishies, tanks can't escape him, and he kites with his Q like a ranged champion.

Yuumi or LoseDec 30, 201411 votes

I wish Trundles and Urgots ult would last that long. It's bonus armor and magic resist but they last for such a short duration.

ChexMexDec 30, 20142 votes

I play yas every time when i smurf, 17/2 w/r gold 2 19/1 w/r platinum 4 10/4 w/r gold 1

This guy is absolutely broken verse players that don't know the basics of countering him... Not even like 'every other champion' you can take advantage of this so much...

Nerf his ultimate cooldown, i have that s*** up every like 30 seconds late game.
Change his armor pen to something useful and balanced, maybe give him a small temporary speed boost or SOMETHING that isn't breaking through 50% armor.
Nerf his E mobility , 0.1 to 0.2 and keep the refresh timer.
W can block 1,000 charges. Ultimates generate a full 1000 charge Autos generate 100 Minion autos generate 10 Cannon minion auto generate 50 Baron auto generate 500 Dragon auto generate 1000

Yasuo W can now PUSH AWAY minions using windwall, allowing for some interesting minion block techniques to block non ranged attacks ^ This may make him extra op? idk

ArczerDec 30, 20144 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vayne Hentai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2p5aGYl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2014-12-30T12:10:56.714+0000)

I play yas every time when i smurf, 17/2 w/r gold 2 19/1 w/r platinum 4 10/4 w/r gold 1

This guy is absolutely broken verse players that don't know the basics of countering him... Not even like 'every other champion' you can take advantage of this so much...

Nerf his ultimate cooldown, i have that s*** up every like 30 seconds late game.

Change his armor pen to something useful and balanced, maybe give him a small temporary speed boost or SOMETHING that isn't breaking through 50% armor.

Nerf his E mobility , 0.1 to 0.2 and keep the refresh timer.

W can block 1,000 charges. Ultimates generate a full 1000 charge Autos generate 100 Minion autos generate 10 Cannon minion auto generate 50 Baron auto generate 500 Dragon auto generate 1000

Yasuo W can now PUSH AWAY minions using windwall, allowing for some interesting minion block techniques to block non ranged attacks ^ This may make him extra op? idk

This is why the game shouldn't be balanced around gold and platinum Right now in High D1 / Master, if you pick Yasuo against me, you're going to get absolutely destroyed 'cause he's pretty garbage right now, and is probably in need of a buff to even be viable

OE BurninatorDec 30, 20147 votes

So Riot should just ignore 90% of its player base and only balance based on diamond and higher? That's a great business model lolz

MinuanoDec 30, 20144 votes

Yes, because all champions should be at least playable in all tiers. Oh shit, a champion that I don't like playing against even though he's balanced! God forbid I learn how to play against him! Riot just nerf him instead! This mentality is what way, WAY too many people have.