I honestly feel shaco has no counterplay is extremely over bearing

Altricad·May 28, 2015·5 votes·1,872 views

Especially the ones that bring ignite and have their pesky toplaners ward your gromps/krugs so they know where you start. Given how brutal the new jg is, and how low tanks like get when they're clearing red/blue, it's a guaranteed kill if he brings ignite with him.

Even warding behind the buff doesn't help as he can sometimes just walk past lanes/ blink over dragon pit. Srsly, I just saw a malphite clear krugs ( i was support) and then head to red before shaco shows up and easily kills him. Before me or the mid could help First Blood

People hate , but nunu doesn't turn perma-invisible and crit you to death before you can even flash away

"He falls off" and he 2 shots your adc in mid-game if there's no pink ward nearby

21 Comments

ShinTwistMay 28, 20154 votes

item 2043 item 3364 item 3362 item 3361

Literally every champion has access to Shaco's counters. On top of this, Shaco's counters are things that are some of the strongest, most important, and blatantly overpowered things in the game which you should be buying anyway.

If you don't upgrade your trinket, and Shaco's running around spamming the laugh emote and rolling in kill gold, it's your fault, not Shaco's.

3tysonMay 28, 20153 votes

whenever i feel like a champ has no counterplay especialy a reallly fun one like shaco i go and try and play him and usualy find out its weakness

Cloud273May 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

whenever i feel like a champ has no counterplay especialy a reallly fun one like shaco i go and try and play him and usualy find out its weakness

Except he has no weaknesses. He has stealth that's on like a 10 second cooldown. And if you really fuk up as Shaco, just run to one of your boxes.

3tysonMay 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Except he has no weaknesses. He has stealth that's on like a 10 second cooldown. And if you really fuk up as Shaco, just run to one of your boxes.

than i suggest you go play shaco and get to diamond i can ensure you he has weakness

AltricadMay 28, 20151 votes

His weakness is not getting kills in early game, I've seen plenty of shacos that bring ignite just for show purposes and be utterly useless around the 20-minute mark because they never invade

Similarly, I've seen shacos 2 hit the adc @ 20 minute mark due to how un-counterable he is in mid-game when objectives are being taken and people aren't grouped in 3s and he has 2 kills before 10 ( easily manageable)

Colgate GatorMay 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Except he has no weaknesses. He has stealth that's on like a 10 second cooldown. And if you really fuk up as Shaco, just run to one of your boxes.

What is late game, teamfights, pinks, team communication, or the fact that you can be 100% sure he's going to try and invade you so you put premptive wards.

He has his perks, for sure, but I'd never ever consider him to have no weaknesses, his shitty teamfighting in this tank-based meta being one of the main ones.

Troy242621May 28, 20152 votes

If you think Shaco is overpowered, someone took away your brain and replaced it with stupid. If you really think he's that strong, I'd suggest comparing him to Nocturne, Lee Sin, Rengar, Sejuani, Nunu, Rek'Sai, Vi and the like.

{quoted}

"He falls off" and he 2 shots your adc in mid-game if there's no pink ward nearby

Then die immediately because he used his best escape as an initiate and didn't run Flash.

AltricadMay 28, 20151 votes

I was about to bring up rengar actually, "!" That ^ makes or breaks your preparation to cc whoever shows up. Nocturne is strong no doubt, but his ulti is a global warning to everyone to hide behind their turrets/group up. Vi ulti has a charge up time that's clearly visible

Granted, they all have much superior damage, but in a game with split-second reaction/reflexes time/ surprise tactics are very crucial.

It's also why Zed 's ulti isn't being bombarded with nerfs, "delays" give time to react

Hardly have I seen a shaco just stop short of our adc and say "Look, I'm here to kill you, but I give you .5 seconds to react before I do it" They lose 70% of their Hp before they realize what's going on

Troy242621May 28, 20151 votes

Shaco's puff of smoke is visible even if you lacked vision of Shaco when he casted it. Vi's charge up literally doesn't matter because you cannot stop her ultimate. Nocturne's ultimate can still not be stopped, he can just be peeled off upon arrival, which if he's initiating, is probably what he wants; to be focused.

Also, item 3341 item 2043 LeeSin RekSai can detect Shaco before he comes close to your carry, where he will die for nothing.

Finally, item 3026 . Shaco now died for nothing.

AltricadMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then die immediately because he used his best escape as an initiate and didn't run Flash.

Yes they die, but that's the point right? kill the adc and win teamfights. Also why Talon is sometimes preferred to Zed due to his ability to insta-kill squishies from stealth

Colgate GatorMay 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yes they die, but that's the point right? kill the adc and win teamfights. Also why is sometimes preferred to Zed due to his ability to insta-kill squishies from stealth

Unlike Talon, Shaco can't even hope to unleash a fluffy of damaging spells in the span of a second, he needs to sneakily slip towards your squishies and execute them, Talon simply announces his entrance with his Ultimate and goes in for the kill.

If you know there's a Shaco you must learn to play accordingly, keep vision around, protect your squishies, having an upgraded red trinket always helps as well.

But well, if you're the kind of ADC who goes yolo and initiates the teamfight without your team, then there's very little they can do to keep you alive. Same if you're the frontline and flash-ultimate to initiate a fight, leaving your carries to his mercy. Shaco is a stealth assassin, there are MANY ways to fight agaisnt Shaco.

PiRoScOuTMay 28, 20151 votes

Shaco is annoying, and is more of a split push champion that does indead have early laning pressure. I would suggest that you take someone with equal split push pressure, such as trind. I also deal with a shaco by pushing objectives like turrets early, so he can't get good items, alos upgrade your trinket at 9 for free vision wards.

AltricadMay 28, 20151 votes

His pressure seems too strong due to how brutal the new jg, and people that can duel/escape him early like LeeSin aren't being picked a lot. His splitpush is one thing, but I've seen shacos that go in YOLO into 3 people and kill my adc every single time ( even they die sometimes, but hey a dead adc is make-or-break for teanfights)

ShankoMay 28, 20151 votes

WWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT?!?! "Lee Sin not picked a lot"?! I hate to disagree, but every single fucking game I play Shaco, i swear it's against a Lee Sin (not really everygame, but it really feels like it) besides, Shaco really isn't overpowered, i'm not going to give away to many secrets, (hehehe >:3) but if you upgrade your yellow trinket to a pink ward that helps with most every team fight / objective. Furthermore, that early game invade is a trademark of Shaco, when you play against one, just shoot a warning to your jungler to ward the area inbetween their camp and the river that would help a lot, and finally.. Nunu, that little prick is... well.. a prick. not only can he survive a Shaco invade (if he's smart) but when the early games ends nunu can go and steal an unprepared Shaco's buffs with ease. In the words of TheOddOne, the job of nunu is to make the enemy jungler as useless as nunu is, besides, surprise bush ults are the best. Why wouldn't you want to play him? xD

Nameless VoiceMay 28, 20151 votes

Jungle tanks are really strong in teamfights, but in exchange they are very weak in the early jungle, and are vulnerable to being ganked and counterjungled. That's part of the balance around tank junglers.

Shaco, on the other hand, is terrible in teamfights, but very strong at early pressure, early ganks, and early counterjungling.

This means that Shaco can be a counterpick to tank junglers, if he can dominate them early and keep them down, but it certainly doesn't mean that Shaco has no counterplay. As a weaker jungler, you can counter him, by predicting what he will do and preparing for it. If you are against a Shaco, then you don't just go to your second camp and start attacking it, you always expect him to gank you there. I'm assuming your second camp is red, so drop your ward in the bush behind the camp, then check the bush beside the camp before starting, and pull the buff monster into that bush before killing it. If Shaco is waiting in one of those bushes, fine. You might have to use all of your spells and blow flash to escape from him. That's fine. Even if he killed you, you still scale better into the late game, and it cost him a decent amount of time and resources (lost jungle gold) to invade and kill you.

Once teamfights start, Shaco can't do much unless he's really ahead. He certainly can't two-shot your carry in the middle of your team with only a hydra and boots. It takes him a while to kill anything, and you have a tank on your team to peel for your ADC and make him even more useless.

AltricadMay 28, 20151 votes

Good advice and I agree with most of your post. It happened to me once when i was jungling Maokai and shaco killed me at red and stole my blue. Thankfully he didn't snowball the other lanes too much, and late game i could take all his damage and pin him down.

It still doesn't make it any less frustrating tho, knowing that you WILL die if he's determined to kill you, and you can never catch him due to his stealth and cc

Colgate GatorMay 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Good advice and I agree with most of your post. It happened to me once when i was jungling and shaco killed me at red and stole my blue. Thankfully he didn't snowball the other lanes too much, and late game i could take all his damage and pin him down.

It still doesn't make it any less frustrating tho, knowing that you WILL die if he's determined to kill you, and you can never catch him due to his stealth and cc

Oh, don't misunderstand, Shaco is frustrating and obnoxious as fuck.

Nameless VoiceMay 28, 20151 votes

Yup, he's annoying and frustrating to play against, but... when he kills me, I tend to feel more that it's my fault because I didn't predict him well enough, rather than that there was really nothing I could do to stop him. At least he can be punished for making bad moves; if he uses his blink on you, it leaves him extremely vulnerable to counterattack or for your team closing on him, especially if he's an ignite/smite Shaco without flash to fall back on. Compare that to what it felt like being invaded by Lee Sin, who has a much safer invade kit (can dash after your flash with his Q, can escape with his W, and later in the game he can just kick you away with his ult if he thinks he won't win.)

Shaco's kit is annoying to deal with, but it's also very unforgiving of mistakes and can be exploited.

DrCyanideMay 28, 20151 votes

Shaco is perhaps the assassin with the most counterplay. He can't just jump on you, press all the buttons, and instantly get a kill (unlike many other assassins Katarina Leblanc Zed Akali Talon ). Yes, he has a bursty gap closer (just like most assassins), but that's it as far as his burst goes. Everything from there is sustained damage.

To your concerns about his early game: interrupt his blue buff. Shaco's typically solo blue, giving them plenty of mana and a little extra CDR to invade with. Interrupting his blue (or even stealing it) early will set him much further back than he's use to being.

Mid game, upgrade your trinkets. item 3362 or item 3364 will both let you make sure you're safe when you see him blink out of existence. Yes, he'll slip through occasionally, but it still gives you time to counter him. 250 gold isn't that bad of a price to pay.

At every point in the game you know he's going to want to attack you from behind and while you're split up. Stay grouped when you can and be ready to CC him/turn your champion when he comes out of hiding.

If you want to go the counterpick route, I recommend LeeSin or RekSai for their true sight. An Ezreal E can also reveal where he is if positioned correctly.

magic poleMay 28, 20151 votes

sounds like someone get cheesed at their 2nd buff :} expect the invade and plan for it. Ask your teammates to drop trinkets at invasion paths at around 1:45-1:50.

don't start a camp at level 2-3 at 50% hp. Lose your buff if you have to, it's not worth the FB.

PREDICT his movement and be unpredictable yourself.