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@RiotScruffy: What are your thoughts on a Champion whose AA's deal purely magic damage?

darkdill··43 votes·8,837 views

Since you were nice enough to respond to two of my other topics recently, I've got another question for you.

For some time, I've been trying to think up a way to make a Champion who is autoattack-oriented, scales off attack damage, but deals PURELY magic damage. All other Champions (mages included) deal physical with their AA's, and have to get on-hit procs to add magic damage to them, but in this case, the AA would be magic only.

Here's my current rough idea for it, in the form of an innate passive:

Mageblade Your basic attacks deal magic damage instead of physical damage, but cannot critically strike. Critical chance instead grants you % penetration against bonus magic resistance (this includes MR from runes, masteries, buffs, and items), up to a cap.

Would this be unhealthy design in principle? Or could it be done with proper tweaks?

EDIT: Azir doesn't count, as he doesn't scale off attack damage.

107 Comments

RiotRiot Scruffy49 votes

I think it's very powerful but it would be cool. I've often thought about a marksmen that did magic damage autos, would definitely make certain AD Mid/Top/Jung comps cry with joy.

With everything there is usually tradeoffs though so maybe this marksmen would have stong anti champ magic damage and would suck vs towers etc. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.

HigeR5 votes

teemo?

TurquoiseYoshi5 votes

Teemo Kayle Azir Lulu

The champions who currently can deal magic damage per AA in some situations.

Dar Raksada11 votes

{quoted}

Teemo Kayle Azir Lulu

The champions who currently can deal magic damage per AA in some situations.

Kayle would be the perfect champion to test it on, the way she's built often focuses on the damage she deals with her e.

TotalJerk2 votes

I'd rather they do something to give players a reason to use her melee attacks. She's pretty much just a ranged champion that's worthless for a period after 10 seconds.

Strut4 votes

{quoted}

Teemo Kayle Azir Lulu

The champions who currently can deal magic damage per AA in some situations.

MissFortune as well with her impure shots (w)

darkdill3 votes

IIRC, towers already have 100 base MR, so this Champion would definitely have trouble versus turrets.

As for other tradeoffs, yeah, definitely would need to be prevalent. One tradeoff I'd have is a complete lack of any anti-health mechanic built into the Champion, making it less effective against high-health stackers like Dr. Mundo, Volibear, etc., compared to Vayne, Varus, or Kog'Maw.

Thanks for giving me a goal, though: a pure magic ADC. Should be fun trying to make it.

First step: aesthetic design!

Bears Dont Care16 votes

{quoted}

I think it's very powerful but it would be cool. I've often thought about a marksmen that did magic damage autos, would definitely make certain AD Mid/Top/Jung comps cry with joy.

With everything there is usually tradeoffs though so maybe this marksmen would have stong anti champ magic damage and would suck vs towers etc. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.

Warwick. experiment with warwick. his aa does deal magic damage through his passive. he would be the perfect champ to test it on, especially since he is one of the few champs that builds wits end to synergies with his passive magic damage

darkdill5 votes

But his AA also has a physical component to it. The magic damage is considered an on-hit proc.

Silents42915 votes

Don't fuck over Warwick for an experiment better suited for a marksmen.

Dar Raksada4 votes

{quoted}

Don't fuck over Warwick for an experiment better suited for a marksmen.

They'll just make him a botlane champion.

Lord Boltrix31 votes

Mordekaiser (drinking at a bar) Warwick (enters the bar, sits down next to Morde looking depressed) Mordekaiser (looks at Warwick) Warwick (silence for a bit) ...I need help being a melee ADC. Mordekaiser (raises an eyebrow) ...T got you as well? Warwick (nods, depressed) Mordekaiser (sighs) Alright, I'll tell you what I know.

Aych Pii15 votes

I'm just impressed morde can get across that he's raising his eyebrow. His face isn't exactly easy to see.

LeafyGreen5 votes

He doesn't exactly have a face either

Delioth2 votes

He bends the metal of his helm with a thought, his will overpowering the strength of the steel.

MegamanEXE7934 votes

Mordekaiser

Ariel the Cruel6 votes

Karma Cassiopeia

Nuclear Panda9 votes

I'm sorry but i don't get it

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

Don't fuck over Warwick for an experiment better suited for a marksmen.

Marksman are typically adcs such as cork or.kogmaw who can also bust turrets and hyperspace untolate game.

on top of this, wWarwick deals mostly magic damage, he would be a prime candidate to try it on, especially since he sucks bad right now.

ItemsGuy2 votes

{quoted}

I think it's very powerful but it would be cool. I've often thought about a marksmen that did magic damage autos, would definitely make certain AD Mid/Top/Jung comps cry with joy.

With everything there is usually tradeoffs though so maybe this marksmen would have stong anti champ magic damage and would suck vs towers etc. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.

It seems like a very wonky model from what OP has presented, namely through the fact that the basic attacks are dealing magic damage, but scaling off of AD rather than AP. There already exist abilities in the game that fit the "magic basic attack" mold (TF's Pick A Card is the first to come to mind, dealing magic damage based off of total AD and AP--effectively converting the attack into magic damage, while also scaling off of AP).

While something that behaved similarly to that--in this case, basic attacks that instead deal magic damage equal to 100% base AD (or total AD, depending on how weird you want to get with numbers/itemization) and X% AP--would be a mechanic that is at least somewhat unique within LoL since it's always "on" unlike PaC, it's fairly underwhelming on its own. It's honestly comparable to Yasuo's crit passive as far as not really adding anything gameplay-wise to the game/character beyond "they have these numbers". I could see it fitting on a magic bruiser of sorts or really any mage with a kit that strongly encourages basic attacks, but it would be there as a way to make the entire kit feel better, rather than something that has substance on its own due to the gameplay-less nature of the mechanic (since all champions have basic attacks that deal damage).

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Auto attacks should be physical damage for consistancy. Building AD and having the result be magic damage is just poor clarity in design. MissFortune also before it was nerfed item 3724

Hayaishi22 votes

{quoted}

I think it's very powerful but it would be cool. I've often thought about a marksmen that did magic damage autos, would definitely make certain AD Mid/Top/Jung comps cry with joy.

With everything there is usually tradeoffs though so maybe this marksmen would have stong anti champ magic damage and would suck vs towers etc. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.

What about making Varus' W on-hit magic damage scale with AD!

As a Varus main i've always dreamed of that, the mixed damage would be so cool.

Aych Pii2 votes

Ever play AP Varus? It's a lot of fun.

Sire Hippington1 votes

I'd prefer handling it over on-hit. AAs scale way to hard and defense itemisation isn't suited to deal with adc levels of magic dps, especially if a physical adc is thrown into the pot at the same time. That's already one of the reasons why ap-hypercarrys are so troublesome by times, it's prettymuch impossible to get enough defense to survive vs both an Azir and a Tris for example.

ADepressedLeona1 votes

{quoted}

I think it's very powerful but it would be cool. I've often thought about a marksmen that did magic damage autos, would definitely make certain AD Mid/Top/Jung comps cry with joy.

With everything there is usually tradeoffs though so maybe this marksmen would have stong anti champ magic damage and would suck vs towers etc. Just throwing some random thoughts out there.

Already giving a champion more thought than CertaintlyOP would.

Rebonack8 votes

Part of the issue is that really high magic DPS is harder to itemize against.

For physical auto attacks, you have item 3110 item 3047 item 3143 all for the express purpose of blunting auto-attacks.

No similar items exist for magic damage.

darkdill10 votes

Ninja Tabi would still work against this because even though they're magic, they still count as autoattacks. Randuin's and Frozen Heart wouldn't reduce the damage via resists, but the AA slow would still count for something (albeit not a whole lot).

Additionally, I'd envision a Champion with this mechanic having no anti-health capabilities (i.e. nothing that does % of your HP), so item 3083 and item 3102 would do a lot against this Champion.

Champion Skin1 votes

I can just see that champion building item 3153 Making it rather hard to deal with as I assume it wouldn't convert on-hit effects to magic damage And I would assume that item 3153 could potentially work rather well given that it sounds like the champion wouldn't work all that well with crit (especially early game)

PopePancake8 votes

Really cool idea, but depending on what the rest of their kit's like. 1 item would be the end of them.

item 3060

WolfBV1 votes

{quoted}

Really cool idea, but depending on what the rest of their kit's like. 1 item would be the end of them.

item 3060

But how many people will remember this item.

Aspynn2 votes

Some pro supports have really started liking BoC recently because it just automatically makes a lane slowpush.

The Yetii Rider7 votes

MR in general is much lower because sustained magic damage is rarer. This would be unhealthy because there exists no way to itemize against it properly.

darkdill4 votes

There'd be ways. Health-stacking, for one, would help, because a Champion with this mechanic would (ideally) have nothing that does % of your health in damage.

item 3083 item 3102 item 3065

The Yetii Rider3 votes

{quoted}

There'd be ways. Health-stacking, for one, would help, because a Champion with this mechanic would (ideally) have nothing that does % of your health in damage.

item 3083 item 3102 item 3065

Liandry's is specifically designed to deal with health stacking low MR targets.

darkdill2 votes

This Champion would not scale well off AP. It'd build AD.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

{quoted}

This Champion would not scale well off AP. It'd build AD.

No, this champion would scale well off magic penetration.

darkdill2 votes

Would it really be worth spending that much gold for 15 MPen? I doubt it.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

Not to mention that its autos wouldn't proc Liandries.

Champion Skin1 votes

This champion is more likely to build Blade of the Ruined King and deal % of current health physical damage and lots of magic damage making it rather hard to build against the champion

7ha7guy7776 votes

Azir is probably the closest thing we have to that at the moment

bad manner kid5 votes

Lulu ?

darkdill8 votes

Her AA is still physical; it's Pix that does the magic damage.

Teridax683 votes

I think the more important question is what you want to achieve on a gameplay level. If you want a champion who deals major constant autoattack damage and some ability damage, AD and physical damage would be a much more direct fit (AP and magic damage, by contrast, allow for more pronounced bursts of damage and power on abilities). Crit is also a stat found exclusively on AD items, and magic pen on an AD champion doesn't make all that much sense in itself.

Binxy Prime2 votes

I think Casseopia is similar to that, I kind of like the idea though.

Declined1 votes

Gotta take crit into consideration as well as lifesteal.

darkdill2 votes

My description included the crit consideration.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

30 MPen, since this champ would get Sorc Shoes as well. And then the health burn.

Dar Raksada3 votes

{quoted}

30 MPen, since this champ would get Sorc Shoes as well. And then the health burn.

Liandry's health burn is rather weak though, especially compared to bork's health shred.

Sneak Dog1 votes

Why would you want a champion to deal magic damage with autoattacks? What's the intended gameplay pattern you're trying to create or gap you're trying to fill? Why is this significantly different from current Azir?

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