Can I humbly suggest that we not keep this trend up with tank itemization value.

kasfas·Jun 5, 2017·85 votes·3,181 views

It's been happening for at least three years now that riot has been slowly lowering the cost of tank itemisation, and simultaneously lowering the amount of value given on those items. The change to glacial shroud on the one showcases this, decreasing cost by 100 but also decreasing armour by 5. It's not even a real buff considering the value of 5 armour is exactly 100g.

People who play tanks like to have expensive and powerful items as much as the adcs and the fighters. We don't always want to have our items cost less to do less. Sometimes we just want an item to be buffed. Like glacial shroud was already in a good spot. If it built in to better items, or items that are less niche it wouldn't need this pseudo-buff.

So I say once more, can we please end this trend of pseudo-tank item buffs that keeps reoccurring, because it's not an enjoyable or healthy trend.

66 Comments

rtbf76109271Jun 5, 20175 votes

People who play tanks like to have expensive and powerful items as much as the adcs and the fighters. We don't always want to have our items cost less to do less.

They literally have to for the games design. Damage dealers must outscale tanks and they even have to outscale them before getting to full build. Or else when you have games where tanks on both teams are ahead, you have team fights where squishies die first and tanks live to wet noodle each other. Or a single tank on one team lives and cannot kill something meaningful from that advantage (not enough damage to kill turret inhib in 30 sec ect). So you would have 45+ minute games where only tanks live in fights just for everyone to re-spawn and then you do it again. If tanks were at a similar end game power to damage dealers, "stalemate only tanks lived again" situations could drag out games to lengths which are unhealthy

Tank items cost less and do less because PER ITEM SLOT they have to be weaker than damage items for the game to actually end at a reasonable time if things get to full build status

RogueWillJun 6, 20179 votes

Why is not ok to rewards tanks that got ahead despite having weak early game? That is counter intuitive. If an ADC gets fed he is allowed to kill me in 2 shots, but If I get ahead I can't become unkillable during mid game because you can't be bothered?

NineTailedMysticJun 6, 20173 votes

idk what game you're playing but Tanks are pretty unkillable when ahead. They still die to focus fire which they still should.

rtbf76109271Jun 6, 20175 votes

They do get rewarded and they do get very ahead. Tank items stats and abilities PER GOLD is great. But PER ITEM SLOT is bad. So you get 8000 gold tank to fight an ADC with 5500 you are going to stomp them and feel invincible no question. It's just this CANNOT continue into the late game or else games can't end

kasfasJun 6, 20174 votes

The problem is this isn't true anymore after the item changes.

Firstly you can't get ahead as a tank anymore because you have no damage to do so, secondly if you DO get ahead you still don't get as tanky because of all the other survivability in the game diminishing the impact of actual defensive items.

Champions who do not build defensive items with health, and resists should not be able to avoid being killed quickly, which is not true anymore due to the unnecessary buffs to lifesteal items, but I digress.

The entire point of building defensive items is to take less damage. When damage is overwhelming enough to make significant impacts THROUGH resistances, the purpose of the stat is nullified or at least reduced.

One last thing, riot has stated that they want tank item builds to 'grow' as the game progresses, and used this as justification for the nerfing of tank items as a whole. Now tanks don't spike as hard mid, and still fall off lategame because their items are worse. If they really wanted tank itemisation to 'grow' more naturally, they would need to allow offence to not outscale defense which they obviously don't want.

GorantharonJun 6, 20171 votes

Currently many tanks do quite a bit of damage, which is ok, if you don't want them to just be CC bots, but that also means they can't be too tanky.

If they'd make the items stronger, tank damage would have to take a huge hit and while that also sounds fine at first, the problem can become that tanks are ignored again when their CC is down.

NinjaGuy69Jun 5, 20174 votes

OP is probably a Canadian, but still....armor*

Pie CubedJun 5, 201742 votes

{quoted}

OP is probably a Canadian, but still....armor*

I have to say, sometimes Americans are a little self-centered. We Canadians spell things slightly differently, deal with it.

NinjaGuy69Jun 5, 20179 votes

I have to say, sometimes Americans are a little self-centered. We Canadians spell things slightly differently, deal with it.

Plenty of people can be self-centered, not just Americans. Apparently humor doesn't translate very well online, eh?

Pie CubedJun 5, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Plenty of people can be self-centered, not just Americans. Apparently humor doesn't translate very well online, eh?

Actually, I was referring to your original point, but that seemed a better place to reply. And when I say self centred, I've noticed from experience that people ask "what state are you from?" or "do you live in x state or y state?" as if everyone lives in the States. I don't mean to offend anyone, simply that assuming everyone is American is wrong.

AnidanJun 5, 20178 votes

Can I just point out that I love how every comment is related to the spelling of "Armor" and nationality and not a single one is about the actual topic brought up by OP?

Like, I'm not planning to rectify that or anything, I just find it legitimately funny.

kasfasJun 5, 201719 votes

Humour*

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 5, 20172 votes

French ^^

OriyokiJun 6, 20173 votes

You mean British English aka the way it is supposed to spelled, not simplified for the foolish Americans?

DeathBurstJun 6, 20174 votes

This "trend" is actually that Support Items are getting cheaper and cheaper, not Tank Items. Except Iceborn Gauntlet, all Glacial Shroud upgrades are actually Support Items, they have team-wide supportive effects, but are not the best items if you want durability. Tanks should go for a Randuin/Deadman instead, or maybe a Sunfire early game. The only reason you'd want to buy a Shroud as a Tank is if you need the early mana, and you can probably get by with other alternatives, such as the Meditation Mastery (you don't need Merciless if you're a Tank), Mana Regen in Runes (you can get MR/CDR from your items), Corrupting Potion, Doran's Ring(s) or even an early Catalyst into RoA if you have some AP ratios in your kit and are dominating your lane.

EDIT: also, reading other comments, there are good points from other posters. Damage dealers have to out-scale Tanks in the late game if we don't want the game to crawl to a stall, so Tank items can't be as slot-efficient as Damage items, and the best way to do that while maintaining satisfaction is to make cheap but very gold-efficient and powerful items for mid-game.

NinjaGuy69Jun 5, 20172 votes

It's not even a real buff considering the value of 5 armour is exactly 100g.

Armor*

THE RlVER KlNGJun 5, 201762 votes

*British spelling

Glory ln DeathJun 5, 20177 votes

*OP is using an NA account

AMYS GRAVEJun 5, 201756 votes

* Canada exists

Glory ln DeathJun 5, 201735 votes

*Canada is an urban legend. Like Santa. The Tooth Fairy. The Queen of England. I used to buy into those kiddie stories, but guess what? I'm an adult, now! I grew up! I got educated! Those things aren't real, kid!

Jeddy017Jun 5, 201723 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wb1AaGUd,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-05T20:30:59.284+0000)

*Canada is an urban legend. Like Yorick Players. The Non Toxic Riven mains. The Chances of NA winning Worlds. I used to buy into those kiddie stories, but guess what? I'm an adult, now! I grew up! I got educated! Those things aren't real, kid!

*cough* FTFY

Glory ln DeathJun 5, 201712 votes

That, too!

MordepoolJun 5, 20172 votes

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.1212517

Excuse you. I'm Canadian

Glory ln DeathJun 6, 20172 votes

I don't believe you. Clearly, you are an internet bot created by the government in order to trick people into believing the lie that is Canada! It's all an elaborate plot to get people to buy more maple syrup by convincing the world that it's good enough that an entire nation has based its entire culture around the syrup!

macromiteJun 6, 20173 votes

maple syrup can't melt steel beams

MordepoolJun 6, 20177 votes

BUT it can melt it's way into your heart

Mistress MadokaJun 6, 20173 votes

http://i.imgur.com/40g9N3K.jpg

EightprismJun 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

maple syrup can't melt steel beams

Umm of course it can. If it splatters it can even bring down nearby buildings. Everyone knows that. That's why factories that bottle it are made out of rubber. Geez, do you even mythbusters.

Hyrum GraffJun 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.1212517

Excuse you. I'm Canadian

Eww, keep Google AMP links out of this please.

MordepoolJun 7, 20171 votes

It's a Link to a news Story about the Maple syrup Heist.

And no that's not a new DLC for GTA V

Hyrum GraffJun 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's a Link to a news Story about the Maple syrup Heist.

And no that's not a new DLC for GTA V

https://www.google.ca/amp/

Maybe just link to http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/2-charged-in-18m-maple-syrup-heist-1.1212517 ?

KoKobotoJun 6, 20172 votes

Tfw you realize you don't exist... http://imgur.com/aSVjtu7

FefnilJun 6, 20171 votes

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ncKaFO2Dts/hqdefault.jpg Am I the only one who got the reference?

THE RlVER KlNGJun 5, 201716 votes

Ok? I don't see how that changes him/her being allowed to use British spelling. My stepmother is British, still has her native accent and spelling but lives in Florida.

EndlessSorcererJun 5, 20178 votes

Canada is part of North America.

Glory ln DeathJun 5, 20172 votes

But not part of Britain.

EndlessSorcererJun 5, 201713 votes

But part of the British Commonwealth (AKA Commonwealth of Nations).

Canada uses British spellings.

starelementpokeJun 5, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wb1AaGUd,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-05T19:35:56.139+0000)

*OP is using an NA account

I'm NA, and I spell it Armour. I think alot of people who play fantasy games do.

Mistress MadokaJun 6, 20173 votes

Armour is Superior because u are in it, and u are special :3

mrgiraffeweevilJun 6, 20171 votes

What a username

five oh tree Jun 5, 20172 votes

To be fair, this is lowering the slot efficiency of the item, but it is allowing you to have access to it earlier (and the cdr it provides, which is key on tanks).

FNC JinxJun 6, 20172 votes

Tanks don't have "Expensive Powerful Items" because their power spike is different than an ADC a mage or a fighter. The role of a tank is to soak damage and have utility in fights, not be a do-it-all machine, so the itemization has to be similar to that of a support. Cheaper, because you can get value from pretty much sitting under tower and barely farming and tank gold income is lower than an mage or an ADC, and not as efficient because one single tank item can have way more impact that 2 or 3 damage items. Need I remind you of the Mao/Poppy/Naut meta and Sunfire rushes?? That's your idea of "fun"?

woodvsmurphJun 7, 20172 votes

It's not just tanks - it is literally every role except adc's. Jhin and adc mains are clearly holding Riot hostage to force them to make adc's be able to outcarry any other role come mid-late and late game while having equal carry potential to mages, fighters, and bruisers mid game. People said this way back with the mage rework where items got cheaper but less powerful. Perhaps others will start to listen and join the petition to stop adc's from having such bloated mid-late and late game power that carries in other roles simply don't matter if their adc is worse than the enemy adc.

magic lassoJun 7, 20171 votes

I played a game yesterday where I was Nami supporting a twitch against a jinx so a 2v1. It was end game and all three of us were similarly loaded itemwise. Twitch died simply because my cast animation times with Nami were too slow to save him. Jinx died as well but ADC damage is completely out of control. Assassins should be the only heroes who can kill another hero in under a second and if they fail to do so they should be punished heavily from cooldowns. Auto attacks at 2.5 second dealing 1400 damage per hit is just retarded. This is a targeted, super versatile, no cooldown, ranged nuke. If a mage had something similar the community would be going ape shit.