This difference really frustrates me as a Sion main.

kasfas··73 votes·4,909 views

So, I know that Sion is in a good place right now, and I've been having a good time playing him and wrecking my games, but there's a small inconsistency with this game that triggers me REALLY HARD.

That is the fact that Sion needs to rank up his w to get the bonus health stacking up but not only is it his worst skill to rank early, another similar stacking skill functions even without points in it. I'm talking about garen's w.

Edit: Garen's W does not stack armor and MR when unranked. What it does is allow all minions killed before it's first rank to be stacked retroactively, so before that first rank of W you get no bonus to resistances. -redniwediS

Now garen is not Sion so I don't expect them to be treated the same way, but the fact that he can just not rank his w and still get the extra benefit of all the minions he kills prior to ranking it once he hits 3 just infuriates me.

What I want (though it would be probably unnecessary) is to do the same thing with sion. This may give people up to ~70 health depending on when they rank up w which isn't much, but the number of games that I have trouble in lane because I put a point in w second to get bonus health is just rediculous.

Yes I know Sion doesn't need buffs (and garen probably does) but I just REALLY HATE this inconsistency.

102 Comments

redniwediS42 votes

Quick thing that I want to clarify; Garen's W does not stack armor and MR when unranked. What it does is allow all minions killed before it's first rank to be stacked retroactively, so before that first rank of W you get no bonus to resistances.

I'd be all for Sion getting a quality of life change like this.

Ralanr23 votes

The only thing I have against it is that Garen's bonus resistances cap at 30 while Sion is infinite.

Though considering all the crap and counterplay with Sion, a QOL change isn't bad.

Penns1 votes

"Counterplay" Kappa

Mistress Madoka18 votes

Sion is Pretty easy to counter dude

Warlord Zudane1 votes

Well, killing him is sort-of half of his ability.

Ralanr3 votes

Not like his passive is hard to avoid though.

Edit: though apparently people forget about it sometimes. I'm not sure if I should be angry or not that I got a kill from his passive due to my opponents ignorance.

Ralanr5 votes

Then it's a cheese build and I can only imagine a Sion building that if they're dying too often.

Even then I'd just get Frozen Mallet.

Penns1 votes

Well you cant dodge his spells without dashes/blinks, so.. I dunno. With something like Vayne Sion should be easy but if you have no mobility you cant really do much against him.

Ralanr26 votes

{quoted}

Well you cant dodge his spells without dashes/blinks, so.. I dunno. With something like Vayne Sion should be easy but if you have no mobility you cant really do much against him.

Wut...

Are you fucking joking? Please tell me you are, please tell me you left out the fucking Kappa. Because that sentence is bloody painful to read.

Can't dodge his spells without dashes or blinks? I'm sorry but is walking not sodding good enough for you? Cause that's how you screw Sion over. You walk out of the way. Even his ult can be walked away from. Hell you can feint a walk and go the other direction and still dodge it!

So you can't seriously think you need a dash or a bloody blink to dodge his abilities.

Spizzle90009 votes

To be fair, walking away would appear to be very good counterplay for most Noxians, but particularly Sion. Even more so than Darius and Vladimir.

Seriously though, how fucking hard is it to walk away from Sion? If you dodge his E or Q you basically win.

TotalJerk1 votes

If you just casually walk out of his Q range he'll just reactivate it the moment before you get out of range.

JusticePauldrons1 votes

And do absolutely fuck all to you as it will have no damage or crowd control

Melledoneus5 votes

I hope you realize that even if I went fucking Braum top lane and built nothing but boots I would still beat Sion in lane.

AramsAreBest1 votes

No you wouldn't

Melledoneus5 votes

E to block minions or his E, jump out of Sion's Q to a minion, Q-auto can decimate Sion's shield, and Braum's ult sets up a nice gank for the jungler.

Stand Behind Braum!

AramsAreBest1 votes

Except for the fact that you have much longer cool downs and you forgot about sions ult. You're assuming sion stands completely still the whole time.

Melledoneus6 votes

No, but Braum merely needs to survive Sion's combo and he wins. Braum's passive hurts a lot more than you think, especially when he stacks HP.

Arakadia1 votes

Braums passive deals damage based on HP?

AFK Push3 votes

I believe that his q does as well.

Arakadia1 votes

I'm certain Q does but I thought his passive scaled off level only.

AFK Push1 votes

You're right it only scales off level, but it increases his autos and Q damage by 20% when stunned from his passive.

aLawfulFalafel1 votes

braums passive has nothing to do with his HP

Spaceman5pff1 votes

But that is what Sion does. He stands still, hits q and yells at minions

Melledoneus4 votes

Drill Sargeant Sion confirmed.

"GET IN THERE AND FIGHT LIKE A MAN, MAGGOT!"

aLawfulFalafel1 votes

this made me laugh so hard

sion : FIGHT MAGGOT

braum : you are safe with braum

minion switches teams

Elisheva3 votes

As a Sion main this really worries me. If they give him any sort of buff, players will read it in patch notes, (not even notice it ingame because the general IQ is 'bout 7), and call for an overnerf because they were once killed by a sion who was either higher level than them, built AD, or just better than them.

Ralanr3 votes

We all fear that brother.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

how is his E better to rank than his W?

kasfas11 votes

Armour shred slow and around 300 magic damage through minions. good for poke and pressure with q. W is just a tiny shield that isn't really good till past 6.

Also, people tend to forget that it costs 65 mana rank 1 out of your pool of 325-535 and gives less than 100 health shield for several levels. Its really bad earlygame and getting it gimps your really powerful lanephase. if i could id put it off until level 4 because it really isn't worth the mana until then. Even vs tanky opponents, your q and e do more damage early than w so its not worth ranking. its ONLY good because it lets you begin stacking bonus health.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Armour shred slow and around 300 magic damage through minions. good for poke and pressure with q. W is just a tiny shield that isn't really good till past 6.

W does good amount of Burst from the Explosion. E poke isn't worth it unless you are maxing it first and Q is unreliable.

kasfas3 votes

Check my post again.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

Well you edited the post.. zzzz

kasfas6 votes

that's why i told you to check it again! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Sohleks2 votes

{quoted}

Armour shred slow and around 300 magic damage through minions. good for poke and pressure with q. W is just a tiny shield that isn't really good till past 6.

I have at times started shield on Sion; it is both defensive and offensive, the shield explosion does pretty decent damage....

Ralanr2 votes

The downside is that it costs more mana as you level it, while his Q is flat.

Spoofghoul1 votes

but E is the best poke tool

i usually level e as my q gets more damage with levels anyway because it scales with 1.95% total ad

Ralanr1 votes

Depends on the match up for me honestly. His Q is great for farming, but if it's a champion I don't want to deal with up close then I max E.

StarGuardianSion1 votes

{quoted}

Depends on the match up for me honestly. His Q is great for farming, but if it's a champion I don't want to deal with up close then I max E.

Very much this. If I'm harassing, I max E. If I'm waveclearing or they're bad, I max Q.

AFK Push1 votes

I used to start W in jungle until they nerfed the time for you to detonate it. :(

AFK Push2 votes

Also maxing E makes Ranged matchups much easier/safer since you can trade from afar. If you land the E then you're almost Garenteed to land the knockup on Q since they got slowed (Also their armor is shredded, so Q will hit harder). This is imo the best ability to level up first, because of what has been said and that it will make it hard for the enemy to itemize against. E will do tons of magic damage while also increasing your attack damage with armor shred. If you max Q first then they can simply build armor, but if you max E first you'll be doing more hybrid damage overall.

Take in mind that maxing E first is going to cost a lot of mana. I would start with item 1056 and back for an early item 2033 for all that sustain.

Secret Butt Fun2 votes

You're joking, right?

I (almost) have mastery 7 on Sion, and I rank up his W second after his Q. The W is an amazing burst and wave clear tool. Speaking from experience, you have no idea how many times I've killed people from the surprise damage from it.

You're missing the point that Sion is a massive lane bully early who transitions into an unstoppable tank peeler later. Of course the shield is not gonna be Nautilus levels early, but late game, your stacks and items will compensate for that and be even better than his.

I recommend you charge your W during your Q cast, so that when you knock them up, you can simultaneously AA and blow up W at the same time. Also, ignore these idiots who think Sion Is easy to counter or peel. You CAN release Q earlier for a slow or even a mini knock up.

It's all about practice. I have no trouble timing R or Q even on Lucians or Kalistas.

Peace.

kasfas2 votes

http://i.imgur.com/DmhFIJr.png http://i.imgur.com/EPZr9Yr.png

I think i know what i'm talking about.

el PepE hanDs 1 votes

{quoted}

http://i.imgur.com/DmhFIJr.png http://i.imgur.com/EPZr9Yr.png

I think i know what i'm talking about.

If you max q on sion then I can assure you that you don't know how to play sion.

Ralanr4 votes

I max Q on Sion. I've also done builds where I max E or W.

It's a preference.

kasfas1 votes

Most of the time no, i go R>E>Q>W. There are some occasions where i will max q first though, like if im stomping lane really hard against someone who doesnt build armour and is slow. Also occasionally get a second rank in w early on if i need the shield really badly but that almost never happens.

Gorgiolio2 votes

Well, it probably has to do with the fact Garen's resistance's are going up by .25 no matter the minion or monster kill. Has to kill 4 just for 1 point. It'll take 120 minions/monster kills to max out at just 30 mr and armor. Sion starts out at 2 health per monster/minion kill, and then 10 for large monster and champ kills. Not only that, but it scales infinitely. Not only does it take less kills and time to out value Garen's W as Sion, it also doubles as a max health scaling shield and max health damage if it survives. Garen's only gives a 2 second damage reduction for most of the laning phase into mid game since it is maxed last. The difference between this scaling ability, and the effects of their W's in general and the time it takes for either to scale is why Garen's is a little easier.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

Sion's W is fine as a first rank in the jungle.

You shouldn't be playing Sion in the top lane anyway. If you are, then ranking your W first sets you up to power farm. Ranking up something else lets you bully your lane, in which case you shouldn't be power farming at the same time.

General Esdeath 2 votes

Garen's W has a limit, Sion does not.

I was Lupxel2 votes

I was expecting Kled ult vs Sion ult

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