We should bring this up now, tank items with less than 400 hp are garbage and almost never worth.

kasfas·May 13, 2017·40 votes·2,432 views

Abyssal sceptre, randuins and adaptive helm are all subpar items for tanks mostly, due to the fact that the health they provide is so pitifully low.

They also make build paths shit for tanks, as building only ~700 hp is really bad despite the rise in resists.

Then assuming my you need to buy gargoyle stoneplate third to have any semblance of value in team fights, you end up with absolutely no tanking power outside of those 4 seconds which is really shit.

If the resists on these items were much higher they might be good, but realistically they all suck and tanks will almost always continue to buy deadmans and spirits visage instead.

Remember that these items have great potential, but not having the single best defensive stat on the most defensive champions in the game isn't viable.

67 Comments

HelaMay 13, 201724 votes

The problem currently is that during the tank patch, every other role has been buffed to the point that you see less tanks now. Ad champs are no longer punished for building GA since it adds ad and mages can now rush banshees because it adds ap. Tanks on the other hand just get raw stats but deal reduced dmg with the new stoneplate and like you said theres less HP on items now which means every role is moderately more tanky while tanks are more squishy compared to what is expected. They are almost pointless to play currently.

The WhamboozlerMay 13, 201730 votes

Don't you get it? The tank update wasn't an update to buff tanks. It was an update to make a ton of squishy champs tankier. The irony is real... They basically made everyone in the game tankier EXCEPT for the pure tanks.

item 3812 item 3102 and item 3026 . Tell me I'm wrong. They're making all the squishier champs tankier, not helping tanks at all. This update could be called the "man, screw assassins" update more easily than the tank update.

Gosh DarnMay 13, 20172 votes

You're not wrong. I think one of the biggest issues with balance right now is that drain-ADCs are better are staying alive than draintanks such as Xin Zhao and full tanks such as Rammus. Death's dance and PD ends up being somewhere around 38% damage reduction IIRC. I realize the DD damage comes back to you slowly, but the point is that when your lifesteal is higher than the damage you're taking, you become deceptively tanky.

Draven and Lucian and Graves being tankier than actual tanks after they build DD is fucked up because they're simultaneously dealing a million damage.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 13, 20171 votes

Change on item 3026 make squishy champ squishier. Squishy champ was already building in before tank update. I think we should wait a bit... the purpose of items rework is to stop the abuse about some tank... And f*ck BS as Fizz Ekko Tank.

And yeah its a straigh nerf to Assassins.

kasfasMay 14, 20171 votes

Tank fizz is still played same as ever.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 14, 20171 votes

Yeah, sadly, hope the next patch will sh*t him.

VallalanMay 14, 20173 votes

i dont know about banshees being broken, but death's dance/ga are problematic right now. GA especially. its being rushed sometimes by lane bullies which is absurd to me.

kasfasMay 14, 20172 votes

Cooldown scales with level, from 10 minutes downward to (what I it now, 3 minutes?) 2min 30 seconds.

LordGeovanniMay 14, 20171 votes

Assassins get tankier just like everyone else.

AmazoXMay 13, 201714 votes

WHAT? Randuin's Omen is fine, It's critical damage reduction got buffed up to -20% critical damage reduction, -20% critical damage is already a great stat.

LankPantsMay 13, 201711 votes

10% extra crit damage reduction isn't worth 150 HP and a decent build path. Rand's right now is a fairly poor item most of the time. It's always a worse choice than DMP, that's for sure.

It could stand to have its crit modifier adjusted to 15%, its HP buffed to 425 in line with Sunfire and DMP and its buildpath changed back to Giant's Belt+Warden's.

SilverjustMay 13, 20172 votes

The reason it has less HP than the other armor-HP-items is, it makes you tankier against krit and its not suposed to be the most tanky item of all the options. so theres a tradeoff: genaral tankyness (HP) vs special tankyness (attackspeed-slow, krit-reduction) you can't have both

LankPantsMay 13, 20172 votes

In practice its 20% crit damage reduction is only fractionally more useful than Deadman's Plate's passive. When you consider DMP also has 75 more HP and a better build path for the same price you are never going to consider Randuin's over DMP.

The changes I'm suggesting would put it roughly on par with Deadman's, although I think it would still be a worse item. As it stands now however Randuin's is a terrible item, bottom fucking tier. You don't go for Randuin's unless you already have a Deadman's Plate and you either have or have no use for a Sunfire and Sunfire is a garbage item.

You can act as if it's a tradeoff but at current it's not. Deadman's Plate is a strictly better item. There is no tradeoff, there is no choice, you just go Deadman's Plate every time.

krit

Crit, please just crit

kasfasMay 14, 20171 votes

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3oGRFp0AqM0BY4axjO/giphy.gif

None of my gifs are working.

AirKingNeoMay 13, 20171 votes

150 HP? No, it's 75 HP, not 150 less than other items.

LankPantsMay 13, 20174 votes

It lost 150 HP, it used to be 500, not 425.

AirKingNeoMay 13, 20172 votes

No, it's technically from 425 because it has 60 armor LIKE EVERY SINGLE ARMOR ITEM NOW.

Trying to say it lost 150 HP for 10% more crit reduction is literally ignoring the fact it gained 10 armor like every armor item did.

LankPantsMay 13, 20174 votes

It had 60 armour before. It's had 60 armour since V5.16.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Randuin's_Omen

It used to be at 500 HP, 60 armour and 10% crit reduction.

nGioMay 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

WHAT? Randuin's Omen is fine, It's critical damage reduction got buffed up to -20% critical damage reduction, -20% critical damage is already a great stat.

It's definitely an upgrade, but it isn't "great" imo. In most cases, you're looking at 10% extra reduced damage from crits from an adc, as most other lanes don't build crit, with some exceptions like Yas and Yi. That same adc who's crits are doing 20% reduced damage got an Infinity, which adds 50% on top of strike chance and 70 AD. Meanwhile, you have less health to do deal with the Fiora who doesn't give a shit how much crit damage reduction you have, and when that Lucian hits 1.6 aps he really won't care much either. I might be wrong, but this is just my opinion on it.

ZT XperimentorMay 13, 20178 votes

Remember when warmogs gave 1k health? Good times . . .

Meep ManMay 13, 20176 votes

And it made you regenerate 0.3% of your max health each second?

AirKingNeoMay 13, 20174 votes

Can't we just not make Warmogs the toxic/useless out of combat regen item?

ZT XperimentorMay 13, 20172 votes

Regenerating regardless of being in combat too!

LankPantsMay 13, 20175 votes

1.38K Warmog's was the best.

SpoofghoulMay 13, 20172 votes

good lucking getting that now with a full build

ZT XperimentorMay 13, 20171 votes

I know right? They've been setting up several tanks to scale off of health, only to eventually nerf health across the board.

Pater GascoigneMay 13, 20172 votes

It's really bad. Not only did they take away 2 tank items and made them into AP/AD items, but they also nerfed all the remaining tank items without compensating the now severly weakend tanks. And let's not pretend that tanks were in a good spot before the update. Any AD champ already tore through your 500 armor 3.5k HP as if you didn't build any defense at all.

kasfasMay 13, 20172 votes

Things weren't that bad before, tanks had a powerspike, and then fell off.

Now they lack a powerspike, and STILL fall off.

AirKingNeoMay 13, 20172 votes

Omen's massive crit reduction is huge. Same thing for Adaptive Helm, but vs Cassio. Unsure about Abyssal.

Don't dismiss good situation items without a clue of how strong unpeneratable percent reduction is.

kasfasMay 13, 20173 votes

It's power budget is way too niche to be viable.

Tryndamere is powerful too, but only at splitpushing which makes him unviable to pros.

The difference with items is that they are only a PART of a champion play style that can be ignored. This item will go unused in significant amount of play due to it being so niche, and it shouldn't because it leaves us with only one good armour and hp item, that being deadmans.

AirKingNeoMay 13, 20172 votes

Niche doesn't mean bad. Omen is pretty strong right now with a 55% slow active and massive crit reduction that not even last whisper breaks.

kasfasMay 13, 20173 votes

Yes but its not good enough to be used often, and with the guting of sunfire tanks have no good items for laning anymore. Omen WOULD be good if it could be paired up with a large hp pool, but it can anymore because hp is down across the board.

Tank items suck now because no one item is good enough to build off of, unlike before where you built off sunfie, or adc's who build off one of a few items, or bruisers who get black cleaver and triforce.

Tanks don' have any good general items anymore, and we need to build only the best items available, therefore randuin's isn't really useable if you want to get tanky.

Great OzymandiusMay 13, 20171 votes

Speaking of tryndamere, i have a question: could he build gargoyle stoneplate as his one defensive item, and activiate it right after his ult expires to get away? Would that be viable? E in, whack enemy, ult, keep autoing, ult is about to run out, activate stoneplate, and run away?

Who is TaliyahMay 13, 20171 votes

Abyssal is only good if you play amumu or other tank mage and have a strong ap team.

Sire HippingtonMay 14, 20172 votes

One of the bigger reason for this issue is that we lack good raw HP items to compensate for the lack of hp on the resi items. Back in the day, FH was a staple and hp overall was even lower than now on resi item, yet tanks were in a fine spot as getting warmongs as first or second item was perfectly viable to get the HP you need. Now Warmongs is quite a bit worse as raw HP item and has it's regen gated so you won't get full value from it if you buy it early.

TimX24968BMay 14, 20172 votes

Some are just not even worth at all, regardless. item 3056

Sir FuzziMay 13, 20171 votes

I still have no fuckin idea how Adaptive Helm works, does it cancel out only one instance of damage or any instances? Like would it reduce Teemo's shroom and poison darts if both hit me, or just one of them?

kasfasMay 13, 20171 votes

The most recent instance of magic damage, if reapplied, is reduced by 15%.

AmazoXMay 13, 20172 votes

It reduces the last spell that hit you no matter how many times it hit you, It's damage is reduced by 15%.

kasfasMay 13, 20171 votes

That doesn't account for dot effects though. Like teemo poison.

I thought it reduced that.

Doesn't matter anyway, I won't really be buying it.

OMGSoAnnoyingMay 13, 20171 votes

Basically it's an item I'll get if I see certain champions ( Cassiopeia comes to mind), but that's really it.

MannnyMay 14, 20171 votes

Since when did health = tankiness?

Oh wait this is season 7 and tank Yasuo is pretty much item 3022 with GA... My bad I forgot

kasfasMay 14, 20172 votes

Health always = tankiness. More health means tankier, resistances back up that health but without hp you aren't tanky.

MannnyMay 14, 20171 votes

Health NEVER ='d tankiness. Health's purpose was to avoid burst damage and help sustain. This stat has gotten out of control and so many champs build it to get really tanky despite the stats main purpose used to live burst damage and sustain only.

more health means tankier, resistances back up that health but without hp you aren't tanky

This is not even close to true. Health does back up resistances, however, in season 4 and below a 300 armor 280 mr Nasus with only 2400 health was a lot more tankier than a 3000 health 80 armor 75 mr Nasus

kasfasMay 14, 20173 votes

% armour shred anyone?

Anyway, generally speaking you need health to be tanky, and you get armour and mr to bolster that health.

Having low health, now more than ever, makes you less tanky.

Also remember that health is a multipurpose tanking stat where as resists only block one source of damage.

Note: true damage too.

MannnyMay 14, 20171 votes

You are talking about now when I am talking about earlier seasons. Yes, Health means tank currently but previous seasons it wasn't as good and did not mean you were tanky.

kasfasMay 14, 20171 votes

It's too bad riot tried to revert to that, and failed so miserably.

LordGeovanniMay 15, 20171 votes

Not true previous seasons adcs sat around 2500 hp bruisers around 3200 hp and tanks easily hit 4000 hp while still building Frozen Heart which had 100 armor with no health at the time and tanks werent op it was an assassin meta

3TWarriorMay 14, 20171 votes

I would like to see some math and explanations for this as gameplay-wise, it seems builds to make those numbers would not have been effective