AD Ezreal playing without W wins more games than AD Ezreal playing with W.
Source: Champion.gg
edit: Moral of the story for those who don't get it: W is fine on AP Ezreal, but needs better utility or higher damage on AD Ezreal. Most of the times it feels really underwhelming and gimmicky, so much that players are avoiding to pick it until they can and they're having better results than those who unlock it at level 4.
1000angrybees29 votesAD Ezreal, maybe. AP Ezreal, no.
XIII Vanitas5 votesAP Ezreal is dead.
edit: Wow, so many downvotes! I thought the "Nietzschesque" one-line was obvious, but maybe it isn't.
SpecterVonBaren25 votesEvil never dies.
KONO RUBICK DA6 voteswhy would you have 1 point in W as AD ezreal? for 60 more damage, with like 80 mana cost? i've been saying that his W is useless since early 2013 but riot isn't listening just play AP ezreal already. they keep buffing his E and Q.
SpecterVonBaren2 votesI think it's because his Q and W are basically the same ability so if AD or AP Ezreal could use both for damage then they may as well just get rid of one of them and give him a new ability but they aren't interested in working on Ez right now because they have other champions that need more attention.
KONO RUBICK DA5 votesI think it's because his Q and W are basically the same ability so if AD or AP Ezreal could use both for damage then they may as well just get rid of one of them and give him a new ability but they aren't interested in working on Ez right now because they have other champions that need more attention.
latelly, i've been playing AP ezreal, his Q does more damage than an AD ezreal (rofl?) with lichbane, and 500 AP it's also better because it reduces the W cooldown by 1.5 sec now (before was 1 sec).
i'm not asking for AD ezreal to do damage with W, i'm asking for a FUCKING GOOD utility because his W is only usefull if you E in, i never saw an ability that requiers an other ability to be usefull (or some exceptions?) maybe bring back his Attack speed debuff because, what's made him op is the width on his W making it undodgeable (if you played around 2012 his W used to hit you even if the animation didn't hit you).
his W used to deal 280 damage, 120 width, 20% AS debuff, was nerfed to 250 damage, 80 width, 0 AS debuff
how do you expect the spell to be usefull
Quepha5 votesSome champions care about some of their skills more than others. That's how it always has been. Ezreal isn't the only champ to ignore a skill until he has to level it, and the skill still provides some benefit in the lategame when he gets those last few levels.
Abyssphere3 votesSome champions care about some of their skills more than others. That's how it always has been. Ezreal isn't the only champ to ignore a skill until he has to level it, and the skill still provides some benefit in the lategame when he gets those last few levels.
What other champion is best off ignoring a skill until the game gives them no choice but to level it? I can't think of a single one - Jayce was like that with his ult and they reworked it because of that.
Zorae4220 votes
E (although it's pretty terrible)
Q
XIII Vanitas4 votesIgnoring Sona's E is the worst thing you can do. edit: Nope, I'm wrong.
Udyr can decide to either go AD/single target damage and max Q or to go AP/aoe and max R.
Quepha2 votesIgnoring Sona's E is the worst thing you can do. Udyr can decide to either go AD/single target damage and max Q or to go AP/aoe and max R.
And he ALMOST ALWAYS goes AP/AoE, just like Ezreal ALMOST always ignores his W unless the team comp favors it or he's trying an AP gimmick.
Whiteeye Avelyn4 votesI only go Ad/Tank Udyr I really hate his r
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=Oryx The Taker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=waGNL8mY,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-22T19:05:42.413+0000)
I only go Ad/Tank Udyr I really hate his r
So you're saying you NEVER level his R? Then I guess Udyr's R is garbage and needs to be reworked.
KONO RUBICK DA5 votesSo you're saying you NEVER level his R? Then I guess Udyr's R is garbage and needs to be reworked.
udyr is an exception in this game because he has 2 playstyles that let him skip his Q or skip his R, those playstyle can't be played in one time because when you cast a spell you can't cast an other for like 1 second and THIS IS INTENDED in the design, ezreal's W wasn't intended to be skipped until lvl 12/13.
but sona's E is garbage like ezreal's W
SpecterVonBaren2 votesIf you're going Tank Udyr then wouldn't R be the thing you max first or third? Why would you max Q if you're building tank?
Zorae4215 votes??? Except many ignore Sona's E until lvl 7-8 because it's terrible.
It's an awful awful speed buff that just drains your already limited mana pool. It's only use early game is to get to lane slightly faster and to build up power chords if you desperately need them. But since you're strained for mana early game, it's very rare that you'll want to blow it for that purpose instead of waiting a few secs and using a different spell. It's almost useless early levels for trying to chase or escape since the buff is so tiny and short that it only saves/secures in extremely close situations.
Primaquarius7 votesI put one point into her E at Lv 4 always, because it gives her the sole common CC she really needs
Zorae426 votesThe slow isn't very big/long and at those levels powerchord Q still does decent dmg and powerchord W is a better save/tool for trading.
Some Sona's don't bother with it until post lvl 6 (imo it's mostly a personal preference). Especially if they're stomping bottom lane or playing with an ADC that has their own slow/cc, the better dmg/heals are a better option.
Heckin Support3 votesIgnoring Sona's E is the worst thing you can do. Udyr can decide to either go AD/single target damage and max Q or to go AP/aoe and max R.
Most sona players don't even level it up until after 6. It doesn't give a massive use in lane, yah the power chord is ok at best but the extra damage on q and heal on w are more important than a minor speed boost.
TNHA Baritone3 votesIf you're a Sona in lane trying to Cc someone with Tempo....you're probably gonna die.
Qchan3 votesOn phoenix I take tiger just to increase my clear speed. The dot is also useful for some extra damage early game against champs.
SpecterVonBaren6 votesUdyr is a completely different situation. Choosing Q or R is because he's the only champion in the game that can't max out all of his skills at level 18 so one of his skills is always gonna be gimped so he's better off not bothering with it.
Quepha2 votesUdyr is a completely different situation. Choosing Q or R is because he's the only champion in the game that can't max out all of his skills at level 18 so one of his skills is always gonna be gimped so he's better off not bothering with it.
Yeah, who ever heard of Ezreal building AP to benefit his W? O WAIT
B-but AP Ez is an off build that isn't popular and probably not even very good!
JUST LIKE TIGER UDYR
SpecterVonBaren3 votesI'm not fucking disagreeing with you so stop the caps lock shit. I'm saying there are better examples of champs that don't put a point in an ability until they have to like Kog'Maw before the rework with his Q.
macromite4 votestiger udyr is life, how dare you.
Jungle Lux God4 votesUdyr does no always ignore his Q. It depends how you intend to utilize his kit.
In general, you either play by maxing Q and not leveling R (tiger Udyr) or you play by maxing R first and not leveling Q (Phoenix Udyr).
Both offer distinct ways to play Udyr, with the former focused on massive single-target damage and the latter focused on AoE damage.
Quepha2 votesUdyr does no always ignore his Q. It depends how you intend to utilize his kit.
In general, you either play by maxing Q and not leveling R (tiger Udyr) or you play by maxing R first and not leveling Q (Phoenix Udyr).
Both offer distinct ways to play Udyr, with the former focused on massive single-target damage and the latter focused on AoE damage.
The latter generally is better. You simply have faster clear speeds and higher base damage allowing you to be more useful while building tanky enough to get in range. Tiger is basically a gimmick build for if you want to snowball, or maybe if you want to lane with him for funzies and don't want to unintentionally push.
DeathBurst2 votesMalzahar usually doesn't level his area until level 7.
Sona often takes her pink skill after level 5, sometimes as late as level 10.
XIII Vanitas5 votesMalzahar has a purpose to pick his W tho: it helps his waveclear and allows him to stack his passive faster. When he gets level 6, it allows him to deal a good chunk of damage to tanky champions. Ezreal's W isn't picked till level 13 because the spell sucks.
Auryiel1 votesMalz's W as waveclear.... wat
It wouldn't even clear a minion wave with 1.3k ap
Flagrock2 votesIf the minions have more than 458 hp then getting Pool will do more dmg than a rank up in Q as long as the minions stay in for 3 ticks. 3 ticks is how long the minions take to walk across the pool, so yes, it would be better than getting another point into Q for waveclear.
Ahristocats4 votesMalz's W as waveclear.... wat
It wouldn't even clear a minion wave with 1.3k ap
it helps him to get his voidling faster
Flagrock5 votesMalzahar usually doesn't level his area until level 7.
Sona often takes her pink skill after level 5, sometimes as late as level 10.
Smart Malzahar's will grab pool before 7 because you lose dmg for your suppression otherwise. Think about the math and it's base dmg. Also 4% max hp hitting all 6 minions will do more dmg than getting a skill-up in Q. If you hit a SINGLE minion for the duration (which is REALLY EASY if drop when the wave starts to attack) it will out damage a rank up (because after the first point the Q scales 55dmg per lvl) in Q as long as the minion has 275 hp. If you only get HALF THE DURATION (2.5 seconds which guess what? THAT'S THE SUPPRESSION DURATION) the person only needs to have 458 hp for you to do more dmg than a rank up in Q. So, unless your enemy has less than 500 hp at lvl 6 you should be going a point in W every single time to increase your burst for your ult and your overall wave clear.
The math: .12*XHP = 55 dmg X = 458 hp
tl;dr: Math does not lie. Please do your math before you say comments that are obviously wrong.
Moon Mom2 votes440k pt diana main. I grab E at level 8, lackluster laning ability. Costs too much mana when i could have more dmg at 6 and 7, as q is a flat 55 mana cost with better base dmg. W provides survivability, which is better than a slow that pulls them in to you.
I get E at level 5 if a ftiend is jungling for E flash ganks pre 6. If they're focusing other lanes i just get it at 8. I only use it to interrupt channels and pull jumps and dashes as a peel technique (lile janna nado). Or if i know i can grab 3 plus people.
Several other champs do this situationally as well.
Abyssphere2 votes440k pt diana main. I grab E at level 8, lackluster laning ability. Costs too much mana when i could have more dmg at 6 and 7, as q is a flat 55 mana cost with better base dmg. W provides survivability, which is better than a slow that pulls them in to you.
I get E at level 5 if a ftiend is jungling for E flash ganks pre 6. If they're focusing other lanes i just get it at 8. I only use it to interrupt channels and pull jumps and dashes as a peel technique (lile janna nado). Or if i know i can grab 3 plus people.
Several other champs do this situationally as well.
There's a big difference between that and the Ez situation though. You leave E till 8 because it's an ability that's very useful late but mediocre before then. This Ezreal build of not taking W until 13 isn't because it's a poor laning ability that comes online later. It's literally "I just don't want to have this ability".
Stuff like Di E, Malz W and to a lesser extent Sona E are all abilities that can be left till later because their use is not necessarily justified in the early game, but they all pull their weight later on. It's somewhat interesting to have abilities in a kit that are best ignored early but are good later on, but an ability being left until you've literally no alternative other than to put a point into it is completely different from that. That's just "I don't want this ability full stop".
Quepha3 votesIt's literally "I just don't want to have this ability".
It's not as useful as his other abilities, but a team AS buff that helps take down objectives faster is hardly useless.
Abyssphere2 votesIt's not as useful as his other abilities, but a team AS buff that helps take down objectives faster is hardly useless.
Then why wait until 13 to level it? You don't leave leveling an ability until you have no choice but to for something that's useful.
Obviously no ability is utterly useless, it'd have to have literally no effect to have no point. But Ez's W is about as close to pointless as you can get. Every other ability being listed in this thread (except Udyr, who is a weird case) is not taken early because its use doesn't come out until late game. Ez's W is the opposite - it scales horrendously. If an ability is not being taken until as late as possible and is useless in the late game then it's terrible at every stage of the game. It really just is. You either don't have it full stop or it makes no impact - that can't be said for stuff like Sona's E and Malz's W.
Quepha3 votesThen why wait until 13 to level it? You don't leave leveling an ability until you have no choice but to for something that's useful.
Obviously no ability is utterly useless, it'd have to have literally no effect to have no point. But Ez's W is about as close to pointless as you can get. Every other ability being listed in this thread (except Udyr, who is a weird case) is not taken early because its use doesn't come out until late game. Ez's W is the opposite - it scales horrendously. If an ability is not being taken until as late as possible and is useless in the late game then it's terrible at every stage of the game. It really just is. You either don't have it full stop or it makes no impact - that can't be said for stuff like Sona's E and Malz's W.
Because his Q and E are still better most of the time, W is still good and can easily make a difference in a game. Depending on your team setup he would probably give it a much higher priority. You're all being crazy over a silly statistic that you're interpreting in a wild fashion.
Abyssphere1 votesBecause his Q and E are still better most of the time, W is still good and can easily make a difference in a game. Depending on your team setup he would probably give it a much higher priority. You're all being crazy over a silly statistic that you're interpreting in a wild fashion.
Most champions have better and worse abilities. There's a difference between that and a champion where one additional point in another ability is better than having access to another ability at all.
Quepha2 votesMost champions have better and worse abilities. There's a difference between that and a champion where one additional point in another ability is better than having access to another ability at all.
Like Sona or Udyr or Cass or... they don't save their last ability until they're out of options (well udyr usually does) but they also don't immediately pick up their last ability when they first get the chance
Flagrock2 votesMalz W abilities that can be left till later because their use is not necessarily justified in the early game, but they all pull their weight later on. It's somewhat interesting to have abilities in a kit that are best ignored early but are good later on, but an ability being left until you've literally no alternative other than to put a point into it is completely different from that. That's just "I don't want this ability full stop".
I'm sorry, but did you really say Malz W you don't grab because it's "lack-luster" and not justified early game? If you are not grabbing W before you're lvl 6, then you are doing it wrong. Part of Malz's burst is based on dropping every ability and then suppressing. If you are not taking W, then you are gimping his dmg by 8-12% MAX HP on the target. Even someone with 500 hp that translates into 60 dmg which is more than enough to justify picking it up because that's almost as much as a Q would do, and let's be honest by lvl 6 champs have more than 500 hp. So please think before you make random claims that are obviously wrong.
UrPalAl2 votesUsually you wouldn't level it up more than 1 point, however it was a strategic sort of thing where you would level it up if you needed the Armor or wanted to fight tanks with his Q>AA>E combo, I kinda miss it. I wish they just made the buffs a bit better.
Penns4 votesIts only 2-3% more win rate tho and the "sample size" is like 17% of the one with W.
And, I mean, 
https://i.gyazo.com/ad10cdf3a3a9c3960cef7ccff6213071.png
"Brand is only op because of DFT" kek
Jbels13 votesIts only 2-3% more win rate tho and the "sample size" is like 17% of the one with W. And, I mean,
The fact that you can win at all without taking W is pathetic for a champion. Every ability should have some kind of use, and Ezreal's W doesn't. It's extra base damage that doesn't scale until you put points in it and takes up mana you would rather save
Quepha4 votesThe fact that you can win at all without taking W is pathetic for a champion. Every ability should have some kind of use, and Ezreal's W doesn't. It's extra base damage that doesn't scale until you put points in it and takes up mana you would rather save
It also is an AoE AS buff for allies, obviously that isn't going to be useful in every comp, and even then not until the late game during team fights. It gives him late game strength so he levels it up in the late game.
It's fine.
AL0004 voteslook at numbers...
50% of 25934 53% of 4536
pretty small influence...
Yrzen3 votesRelative to each other.
4536 is more than as many games as there have been Galio in them. The 3% is a small change, but it's absurd that handicapping yourself by not taking W is a benefit.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesAll they need to do is make Ezreal's W hit minions and change ezreal's E to only attack champions.
