About competitive integrity in ranked

XIII Vanitas·Jul 5, 2016·52 votes·2,109 views

What would happen if Riot decided to make 2 separate ranked ladders, one for Solo Q and one for Dynamic Q (with only groups of 2, 3 and 5 players)?

56 Comments

Critmaster GarenJul 5, 201623 votes

dynamic que would die, since there wouldnt be enough solo players to fill the gaps for 3 and 4 man premades.

not that this would be a bad thing.

MarshbouyJul 5, 20162 votes

to riot it is (-_-)/

Amasa DelanoJul 5, 20163 votes

According to OP's idea, we wouldn't need any solo players on the second queue, since there would be no 4 man premades, so 2 and 3 man premades could pair up with each other.

Sire HippingtonJul 6, 20161 votes

which would either lead to horrid matchmakeing or insane que times for 2 and 3 man premades

Dextix LTJul 6, 20161 votes

And? So we solos have to be used as tools to balance the que times of premades?

Sire HippingtonJul 6, 20161 votes

No, that just means that haveing a pure soloQ and dynamic que side by side won't work. Either we screw solo's and have dynamic que, ore we get ride of dynamic que.

NidkenJul 5, 20162 votes

what if it was the same queue, but a separate ladder? So queuing solo in dynamic queue gave u a 'solo rank' that was separate from your 'dynamic rank'

DehitayJul 5, 20165 votes

{quoted}

what if it was the same queue, but a separate ladder? So queuing solo in dynamic queue gave u a 'solo rank' that was separate from your 'dynamic rank'

more along the right track, but still too many variables for a solo player to overcome for their rank to be that valid. Premades will still be the biggest deciding factors in games.

Khell DarkWolfJul 5, 20165 votes

{quoted}

what if it was the same queue, but a separate ladder? So queuing solo in dynamic queue gave u a 'solo rank' that was separate from your 'dynamic rank'

It has to be** separate queues and separate ranks**.

It is the only way to remove the variables that people complain about from both ends of the spectrum of arguments.

I'm not against Dynamic Queue, what I'm against is it being the only option with us (solo players) being lumped into it.

I'm also for Ranked 5v5's and ranked 3v3's and think limiting the times people can play it is a terrible move.

XIII VanitasJul 5, 20161 votes

Ehm, you probably didn't pay enough attention while reading. "My" version of DQ would have only groups of 2, 3 and 5 people. No solo players, no 4 premades.

IcepawJul 5, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wzf3ITza,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-05T12:11:08.224+0000)

dynamic que would die, since there wouldnt be enough solo players to fill the gaps for 3 and 4 man premades.

not that this would be a bad thing.

4 man teams would be impossible, and dynamic would be 3 and 2 or 5 man teams.

Why this would be a disaster.. i dont know. Riot ha nightmares

LirikJul 5, 20169 votes

it would be the paradise on earth i would play league again.

Meanie40Jul 5, 20166 votes

The Dynamic Queue queue would instantly have wait times more than twice as long as the old Team Builder.

Riot knows this, and it's the only reason they continue to shove Boosted Queue down our throats.

XIII VanitasJul 5, 20161 votes

But players would have the possibility to choose between a strictly solo queue and dynamic queue with friends. Would the trade be worth, in your opinion?

Meanie40Jul 5, 20162 votes

There would only be the illusion of an option.

By "double Team Builder" time, I mean hour plus waits. At all Elos.

So yes, the Dynamic Queue would "exist." But it would be unusable. And Riot doesn't want to throw away the current queue yet.

UmioJul 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There would only be the illusion of an option.

By "double Team Builder" time, I mean hour plus waits. At all Elos.

So yes, the Dynamic Queue would "exist." But it would be unusable. And Riot doesn't want to throw away the current queue yet.

No. You simply prevent entries of 1 and 4.

macromiteJul 6, 20162 votes

there aren't enough 2 and three to make a queue of them.

Zero ShingetsuJul 5, 20165 votes

In ranked, you should only be able to play five-man teams against five-man teams, or solo against solo. The ranking system should change, too. Having this color-based rank system doesn't really tell players anything about their skill level, so it makes ranked play pointless.

Sire HippingtonJul 5, 20164 votes

If you want competetive integrity, 5vs5 needs to be seperated, as that's the only truely competetive format. Dynamic que just doesn't work with competetive integrity. If you take soloQ out of it, the 4 man premades allso are out, and 2+3 man premades get massive que times as they alsways have to wait for two 2+3 parings to get a match.

The old solo/duo + 5premade ladders were just the far better system. Duos had a small enough impact on overall team coordination to be bearable on the solo-que ladder while alowing friends to play together, and 5vs5 is the true competetive format.

If they want a solid competetive experince for 3 man, they should do more work on Twisted Treeline. And if they want a competetive expereince for 4 man, they need a 4 player map, as 4 man on a 5vs5 map always means there is that 1 random dude, which feels always feels shitty on either side.

XIII VanitasJul 5, 20161 votes

Do you think that a 5 premade team against a 2+3 premade team would be an unfair matchup?

Sire HippingtonJul 6, 20161 votes

Depends on the 5 man premade, but if they are prepared and comunicate well, then it will be a god damn masacer. I think 2+3 premade vs 5 solos is a fairer match than 2+3 vs 5 premade, provided the 5 premades play together on a regular basis with an competettive mindset and thus built up some synergie and teamcoordination.

UmioJul 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Do you think that a 5 premade team against a 2+3 premade team would be an unfair matchup?

It has the potential to be fair if they create new mmr for how you are queueing. Then match with the 5MMR and stop basing dynamic team on soloMMR values

Such that if you queue as a 5 man premade - once you win or lose you get assigned a 5MMR value to your account. So if you que as a duo, neither your solo MMR or 5MMR effect the mmr of you in a duo group - your win loss as a duo gets assigned a 2MMR etc.

SecretlolzJul 5, 20164 votes

that would be the death of the garbo system of dynamicq, since that shit doesn't really appeal to anyone but the fucks wishing to feel better about their rating by stomping a group of solo players as a premade.

dynamic queue needs to die

redfeenixJul 5, 20163 votes

It would be something everyone wants but well never get.

Adding solo q destroys DQ. They spent the entire season, hundreds of hours and millions of dollars making that. You think they can ever say ohhh fuck our investment was wrong we just wasted a mill.... bring back solo q. Yeah right

Zero ShingetsuJul 5, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Adding solo q destroys DQ. They spent the entire season, hundreds of hours and millions of making that. You think they can ever say ohhh fuck our investment was wrong we just wasted a mill.... bring back solo q. Yeah right

So once again, Riot wasted money on something they didn't need. We'll mark that down with...

The Chroma system.
All those CG trailers released several years after the game became almost ubiquitous.
Pro player winnings.
Whoever it is that beta tests the patches since they practically made PBE pointless.
Vi and Illaoi.
Pool Party Fiora.
Battle Bunny Riven.
Draven.
Do they pay for /ALL Chat...?

SithesisLordJul 5, 20163 votes

The Chroma system.

It was an attempt at something. To make 520 RP skins obsolete. And give those players who think the classic skins are better the chance to get 3 recolors for the price of a 975/1350 skin. I think that on that matter, it worked.

Whoever it is that beta tests the patches since they practically made PBE pointless.

May i introduce you to Murphy's Law?

Just because the patch went alright on the PBE, doesn´t mean it´ll go alright in live. Sure, the PBE is for testing, but the real shakedown cruise is on the live servers. It happens to a ton of online games.

Vi and Illaoi

How exactly did they waste money on those two?

They´re incredibly fun to play. And both have relatively unique kits. Both dunk better than Darius too.

Pool Party Fiora.

Fiora with a pool noodle. Fiora fighting a crab.

How is that wasting money?

Battle Bunny Riven.

It´s funny. Not all skins need to be really serious or really edgy, like Yasuo and all his skins.

Draven.

Only point i´ll agree on. And only because of his persona, not his kit or gameplay.

redfeenixJul 5, 20161 votes

I agree, I actually like how riot makes new things. Sometimes it backfires like dq, but usually i can appreciate their creativity and passion for making new things.

SithesisLordJul 5, 20161 votes

I´d say that DQ only backfired because Riot tried to advertise a change still in development and improvement as a already finished feature, and of course, people thought that what it released as was the final version, when in reality it was not.

I see a lot of potential in DQ, honestly. And i wanna wait to see how many changes Riot can poke at it before deciding to join the 'DQ is crap' bandwagon or not.

Patience is a virtue, after all.

Zero ShingetsuJul 6, 20161 votes

Let me preface my reply by saying some of these were largely inside jokes. I'll mention which ones. (Sometimes I make post elements just for my senpai to laugh at, when he's sitting here waiting for me to get into the next game.)

It was an attempt at something. To make 520 RP skins obsolete. And give those players who think the classic skins are better the chance to get 3 recolors for the price of a 975/1350 skin. I think that on that matter, it worked.

The premise was fine. The issue was the price. There are amateur 3D artists who can and have made chromas of the same quality or better than what Riot put out, in the matter of a day per champion. I don't like that Riot asks money for Chromas when, if they were spending their time and resources properly, they could've very easily had their artists make these in their spare time and put them out there as IP rewards. That would've been preferable, because aside from new champions, IP is more or less useless to veteran players right now.

May i introduce you to Murphy's Law?

Just because the patch went alright on the PBE, doesn´t mean it´ll go alright in live. Sure, the PBE is for testing, but the real shakedown cruise is on the live servers. It happens to a ton of online games.

It's fine, honestly, if their in-house bug testing does the job. But almost every single patch that goes in breaks something in the game. Usually something completely unrelated to what the patch affects. When they have to disable champions for days at a time after almost every patch, their quality control isn't doing the job, and I feel like hiring more (or better, depending) people would fix that problem. It seemed to me that when PBE was more open to the public, this happened less, but I could be imagining it.

How exactly did they waste money on those two?

They´re incredibly fun to play. And both have relatively unique kits. Both dunk better than Darius too.

Vi and Illaoi are an inside joke. My senpai and I hate that sort of "trying too hard to be tough" look that many Western game characters have, and it's more noticeable on women than it is on men. We groan every time we see one of them in a match. So I put this in as part of the joke.

Fiora with a pool noodle. Fiora fighting a crab.

How is that wasting money?

Another inside joke. We hate what they did to her hair in this skin. And the tattoo thing makes her seem much less dignified. I'm fine with the bathing suit, and the one they chose even fits her personality. But that hair and that tattoo both come together to really tear her noble look apart. If you take Leona, for instance. And Graves. Both of them have pool party skins that really fit their champion. The "feel" of each champion is maintained perfectly, with the gag elements being put into their weapons and particle effects. I think Fiora should have been the same way.

It´s funny. Not all skins need to be really serious or really edgy, like Yasuo and all his skins.

Another inside joke. Partially. Part of it is unpopular opinion. The inside joke is from the fact that neither of us like the "Play Boy Bunny" look on women in general, and we feel like if the point were a gag skin referencing how she hops around, putting her in a bunny suit would have been funnier. The opinion part is that the skin is a complete contrast to Riven's personality. It's okay to contrast a little, but skins like Battle Bunny Riven that make Riven look rather trashy, or Deep Sea Nami which turns fun, playful Nami into some kind of giant man eater... A lot of people don't like them, and I'm one.

Only point i´ll agree on. And only because of his persona, not his kit or gameplay.

Yes, his kit is fine for sure! It's just his persona (and his facial hair) that annoy me. He didn't really bother me until he became a nearly universal meme in the community. Then I started to really notice how annoying he was...

HackProofJul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So once again, Riot wasted money on something they didn't need. We'll mark that down with...

The Chroma system.

All those CG trailers released several years after the game became almost ubiquitous.

Pro player winnings.

Whoever it is that beta tests the patches since they practically made PBE pointless.

Vi and Illaoi.

Pool Party Fiora.

Battle Bunny Riven. *** Draven.**

Do they pay for /ALL Chat...?

Uh, Draven is the BEST. Draven is so unique and fun to play. Draven's character is so funny. Draven is the best adc. Draven is the best type of Draven Draven. If Draven could Draven any better, he would Draven any player to League of Draven Challenger.

Zero ShingetsuJul 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Uh, Draven is the BEST. Draven is so unique and fun to play. Draven's character is so funny. Draven is the best adc. Draven is the best type of Draven Draven. If Draven could Draven any better, he would Draven any player to League of Draven Challenger.

I'll reword that entry:

"The artist who designed Draven."

s LessThanThreeJul 5, 20163 votes

I guess you werent here for seasons 1-5 huh

XIII VanitasJul 5, 20161 votes

I've been playing since the mid/end of season 4.

zecastarJul 5, 20162 votes

Riot is afraid to let the community decide what it wants. It would rather make stupid surveys like "would you like to play ranked with friends?" where most of the people will just say yes because they don't understand how Riot will twist this to mean DQ only or other implications.

Mandang0Jul 5, 20161 votes

Inb4 "it's impossible" or "it'll kill dynamic queue".

Riot would need to add an incentive for solos to play the less-attractive queue, but I think offering SQ alongside DQ is the only way Riot's not gonna piss off some portion of their playerbase. For a similar case, consider when Riot was deciding between supporting call order or pick order in queues - they still piss some players off either way until they release role selection.

I doubt solo queue + duo/trio queue + 5s will work, because forcing duos to queue only with trios will greatly increase their queue time (and I can't see Riot taking ranked away from 4-mans).

XIII VanitasJul 5, 20161 votes

"My" version of DQ allows to queue up only as a 2,3 or 5 men group. No solo players, no 4 premade.

Mandang0Jul 5, 20161 votes

Oh. Well, I really don't think that's going to work either. Can't see Riot telling 4-mans they can't play ranked anymore. Riot's also always supported duos, and requiring them to wait for a trio to play a game is going to increase their queue times dramatically over DQ or solo/duo of previous seasons.

chipndip1Jul 5, 20162 votes

{quoted}

"My" version of DQ allows to queue up only as a 2,3 or 5 men group. No solo players, no 4 premade.

But then 2 would NEED 3, 3 would NEED 2, and 5 would NEED 5. That'd spike queue times like a bitch.

XIII VanitasJul 6, 20161 votes

What if the new DQ was available only 4 days a week, from Friday to Monday, just like they're doing with ranked teams on SR?

chipndip1Jul 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What if the new DQ was available only 4 days a week, from Friday to Monday, just like they're doing with ranked teams on SR?

Then what's the point of ranked 5's either?

Like, you'd have to remove ranked 5's again to separate DQ and SQ.

XIII VanitasJul 6, 20161 votes

That would be the point, if it was possible to have a balanced game when a 5 premade group happened to face a 2+3 premade group.

Hyrum GraffJul 6, 20161 votes

Like I said...

KnKitsuneJul 6, 20161 votes

Matchmaking would be a clusterfuck because the lack of Solo players would not only increase queue times, but also mismatch premade teams.

Imagine a Duo with 1100 and 1500 MMR trying to queue. Because theres no Solo players with that kind of MMR and premades are either a larger party or their MMR is just too large of a gap, the Duo could end up fighting against a 4-man with a 1700 average MMR because they were the only ones available.

MuyAstutoJul 6, 20161 votes

Won't work because the QD ladder wait time would be huge. DQ should be the replacement for normal que and ranked should be solo.

UmioJul 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What would happen if Riot decided to make 2 separate ranked ladders, one for Solo Q and one for Dynamic Q (with only groups of 2, 3 and 5 players)?

Everyone would be happy.

ZeeWolfZJul 6, 20161 votes

League of Legends will thrive again.

Serika ZeroJul 6, 20161 votes

dynamic q would have 30+ minutes queue times, it would be played as much as dominion and nobody would care unless riot starts giving skin rewards from there or shit which will cause complaints again

s LessThanThreeJul 6, 20161 votes

That would be too smart of a design choice for rito and would make too much sense

DingleNutsMcGeeJul 6, 20161 votes

Theyve commented on this. They wont do it b/c it would split the community in half, making queue times for each too high.

Dextix LTJul 6, 20161 votes

Or people would simply choose the one they prefer more so the other dies. And considering how they lied about giving back soloq, we know which que would die in that case...