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I really think those shen nerfs are fucked up.

adidas··123 votes·4,168 views

Dude already has an abysmal play rate and he cant go past 50% win rate. I dont play shen anymore but thats honestly fucked up that hes even looked at for nerfs.

73 Comments

AwesomeChad10 votes

I like how riot doesn't nerf shen's W duration and instead goes after his dmg. Theres a very specific reason why hes an annoying champ and its not his damage output.

Marshbouy14 votes

then they would be nerfing his niche. If they nerf his niche, fucking rip shen.

adidas9 votes

{quoted}

then they would be nerfing his niche. If they nerf his niche, fucking rip shen.

But do you really think he needs nerfs... if anything he needs buffs... like i just dont understand.. his Q does absolutely nothing mid to late game like flat out nothing... Then his W and E have an 18 second cooldown like. i just dont understand....

Marshbouy2 votes

he definitely doesn't need nerfs, or at least i haven't been shown anything that proves he needs them. Nerfing his niche is just stupid though.

Shahamut8 votes

He definitely needs to be reworked... again... his story and the glowing sword anchor do not mesh at all.

Phoquelesanimaux1 votes

Many people complained about the rework on the pbe forum but no Rioters answered any feedback. They just released the reworked Shen without any adjustement or commentary.

Count Zubat3 votes

Just like some other rework that caused huge backlash as well as became broken as fck monstrosity ruining the balance of last year's worlds cough Mordekaiser cough. In order for champion rework to be reverted the champion's name must be Lee Sin or Riven.

crippler381 votes

were either of those two reworked ever?

Count Zubat2 votes

Lee Sin had so called "retune" on PBE in season 4, which was basically huge changes in both base numbers and scalings on all of his abilities, so yeah, it was sort of a rework and it was reverted. Riven had some passive changes that gave her a resource bar called "Edge", also ended up being reverted on PBE.

Melledoneus2 votes

Shen's W is a partially uncontrollable 2 second dodge zone on an 18 second cooldown. The only reason Shen is "annoying" is because he has a global ultimate, which is pretty much what he was made for.

Imperial Japan7 votes

His "rework" fucked him up already

Imperial Japan1 votes

I loved him prior to the rework as jungle Shen and climbed pretty well till they screwed him up

Imperial Japan3 votes

Technically he's still good in pro play as he has global pressure but he doesnt feel right to me anymore. The nerf which took away the 50% damage reduction on his e, etc

Mecha Incognito1 votes

they took that damage reduction on taunt away because he can block auto attacks now. It'd be ridiculous if he had that on top of the block.

Imperial Japan1 votes

Honestly his w is rediculous right now. Of course it can stop a few autos but if the enemy team baits it out for even 2 or 3 seconds then it won't have any impact at all

Timethief494 votes

They said the next Patch will be focused on pro play because they want to Balance the worlds Patch. Shen is extremly strong in pro play because they can take full use of his global disengage. I havent looked at the exact things they think about nerfing but yeah that's my guess

Melledoneus25 votes

So then why are they gutting his only damage? Hell, if the global disengage is a problem, increase the ultimate cooldown or something.

Timethief491 votes

They let the strength of 1 part of his Kit and weaken another part more instead of making all weak that gives every Champion a personal strength which leads to diversity

Melledoneus6 votes

Shen's ultimate is telegraphed, the shield is almost negligible in this damage creep, and it has a 3 minute cooldown.

If he can't have a decent laning phase then you might as well call the rework a failure.

adidas3 votes

{quoted}

Shen's ultimate is telegraphed, the shield is almost negligible in this damage creep, and it has a 3 minute cooldown.

If he can't have a decent laning phase then you might as well call the rework a failure.

i have no fuckin idea why they nerfed shen.... he needs buffs

Abyssphere7 votes

Basically he's got a really strong laning phase (he basically doesn't lose to anyone) so right now you don't give up anything for picking him (like GP). You have one of the best laners in the game (worth picking for almost on its own) AND you get a free amazing ult on top. If they nerf his laning phase then suddenly if you want Shen's ult you have to give something up for it - you have to risk a top lane that might lose, that the enemy top laner might snowball off of.

That's essentially the reasoning for the nerf. Make it so that his ult is his defining strength, rather than his ult AND his laning phase. They had to nerf one of these two things and they chose the latter because Shen's ult is supposed to define him.

adidas18 votes

{quoted}

Basically he's got a really strong laning phase (he basically doesn't lose to anyone) so right now you don't give up anything for picking him (like GP). You have one of the best laners in the game (worth picking for almost on its own) AND you get a free amazing ult on top. If they nerf his laning phase then suddenly if you want Shen's ult you have to give something up for it - you have to risk a top lane that might lose, that the enemy top laner might snowball off of.

That's essentially the reasoning for the nerf. Make it so that his ult is his defining strength, rather than his ult AND his laning phase. They had to nerf one of these two things and they chose the latter because Shen's ult is supposed to define him.

Doesnt lose to anyone????? Have you fuckin played shen? I dropped him fora reason. Every ranged champ shits on him and melee champs burn through armor since the meta ones are true damage.

The only good matchup i think i've seen is against riven

Abyssphere14 votes

He doesn't lose to anyone that matters in competitive play, and Riot have made it clear that they're balancing for competitive play right now. It doesn't matter if he loses to ranged top laners - the only ranged top laner that's even semi-popular in competitive play right now is Lissandra. He can cope with everyone he's likely to run into when played by pros.

I don't know why you guys are downvoting me, I really don't care if Shen gets nerfed and I don't think he's overpowered. I'm just telling you why Riot are nerfing them. "Shen's laning phase is too good for his ult" is their reasoning, and I guarantee you that it's what they will say in the patch notes.

CeexSett2 votes

There is also Gnar in the ranged department.

Tarquin962 votes

And gnar is pick or ban in competitive

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

Well i think this won't work out. This whole "fuck soloQ balance, now it's time for worlds" will backfire massively. I mean seriously, fucking over your whole playerbase for 100 players? Riot needs to balance the game for the sake of balance and not to cater to a specific group of player. Otherwise they can also nerf yiand tryndamere to the ground for being noobstompers. And then buff some other champs who are bad in silver/bronze. Just ridiculous imo.

Sozan54 votes

They have been doing it for years now.

Every Worlds they nerf and buff champs to balance it for pro level (which is hugely different than soloQ) simply because they get money based on viewers, and you get more viewers if the games are interesting.

On another note though - on what level of play would you focus on balancing mostly?

Duhpope1 votes

IMO, and I'm not extremely biased in this because i'm a Bronzie this year as opposed to Silver last year, but i think it should be balanced around Mid-level rankings (Low Gold-Upper Diamond or Plat). It makes for some interesting pro-play come time for worlds, sure, but this is always such a long few weeks/months for the rest of us.

Sozan51 votes

You can't really balance from Low Gold-Upper Diamond at once, because those skill levels are way too far apart (don't forget that whole Diamond is only 2% of the playerbase - Bronze-Gold is literally 90% of the playerbase; source). But, I get your point. Balancing based on majority on playerbase makes some sense - however, I disagree that this is the level they should focus on.

I actually think they got roughly the right idea of balancing (well, kinda?) - for very high level of play with occasional changes based on lower skill levels (maybe they could do that slightly more often).

And as far as current Worlds patch changes go - I don't think they will have that much impact on lower levels. Shen and Sivir mains will be hit, but I think both of them will still be viable (and if not, they will probably get rebuffed).

Duhpope1 votes

Yeah and I'm a Shen /Irelia Main, so i'm feeling hits coming to both of my mains. At least Ezreal got buffed a bit!

UnderscorBunnies1 votes

To be fair, there are a few more champions that were ranged and saw semi popular competitive play.

Like lucian. ;)

(In all seriousness Kennen, Quinn, and Graves all saw semi popular competitive play, kennen being most recent. Oh yeah, and gnar. Gnar's strong.)

Duhpope2 votes

And that's cool and all, but it's a little ridiculous that champs that are viable and strong in Pro-Play, but what about us that actually play Shen as Silver nubs? A little unfair that we take a damage gutting and health regen nerf, one after another after another really, on a champ that is already largely less powerful than before his rework. I play him mostly in the jungle now just because his damage and regen are just not heavy enough against most tops, even with is shield and barrier.

ImNotGio1 votes

He only shits on like 3 champs. Tryndamere, Poppy and Wukong. Nerfing him is gonna make him weaker than he already is.

Melledoneus9 votes

Shen has some of the lowest scaling stats in the game, his base armor is abysmal, he has one offensive move that relies on opponents being melee, immobile, and/or stupid. As a matter of fact, he loses to most top lane champions because of superior poke, CC, or overall dueling capabilities. Shen only slightly counters Riven, and that's if there is a skill gap. Otherwise, Shen players have to rely on skill to win unfair matchups in the enemy's favor.

His laning phase is among the weakest, and he has to more than make up for his lacking tank stats. Even when he's ahead DPS can fuck him up badly.

Abyssphere2 votes

I really didn't think I needed to specify that I was talking about pro play. He has a very safe laning phase in competitive play and the champions he struggles with in lane are not played there. This is something commentators have mentioned - there are almost no relevant top laners that he struggles with.

You mentioning the weak points in his kit doesn't mean anything, either. Having poor base stats doesn't make someone bad, nor does having a lack of offensive moves.

BioticBrony2 votes

You bring up a good point that in competitive his counters are not played there but by nerfing his proplay you are also nerfing his casual play.

Morticianjohn1 votes

Everyone deals with their main champion getting nerfed from time to time. Sometimes our champions go ignored or whatever. We either adjust to the meta or we don't. It's up to us as players to decide is the champion Shen important to us that we'll continue playing him to a 40% win percentage or am I going to be flexible and choose someone I have more success with only picking Shen when I am countering something the opponent's are trying to do.

TLDR: It's just part of the game to have our main nerfed. It happens to everyone eventually.

BioticBrony1 votes

Yea, you're right. I guess this is the first time seeing one of my mains nerfed like this.

DarkRitual2 votes

Problem is, his ult cooldown is already absurdly high. If they wanted to balance it, they would do what they did with Pantheon, and give it a large range instead.

DrDiaga1 votes

{quoted}

They said the next Patch will be focused on pro play because they want to Balance the worlds Patch. Shen is extremly strong in pro play because they can take full use of his global disengage. I havent looked at the exact things they think about nerfing but yeah that's my guess

They are nerfing his Q, and his sheild duration. Pointless random nerrs.

Bears eat people4 votes

His rework was shit. He was viable and balanced safe pick before rework but rito did some strange shit with him.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

yup. When i didn't know who to pick i just picked shen and be fine. I haven't even tried playin the reworked shen. It just looks shit tbh. Played him once on aram and he felt shit as well.

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Boards logic.

  1. Complain about how tanks do too much damage.
  2. Riot nerfs the damage of a tank.
  3. Everyone loses their mind.
  4. "I like Shen though, so he doesn't need nerfs."
Phoquelesanimaux5 votes

LOL, do you really think Shen is a damage dealer ?

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

No, but he is a tank, and people are complaining that damage has increased across the board.

I'm not saying that's why they nerfed his damage, but people are flipping out about a champ receivimg a damage nerf even though they maintain that tanks shouldn't have damage.

LatetotheRace7 votes

The wrong way to decrease damage throughout the game is by starting with the weakest champions (damage wise) and going from there. >.>

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

He's the weakest champ damagewise? But doesn't his Q deal %health damage?

Not saying his nerf is justified, but doesn't that put him above a few champs in terms of damage?

World Ender4 votes

Yes it does, but that's his only real damage skill. A tank like Malphite has damage on every ability but you don't call Malphite a "damage dealing tank." His overall damage is minimal, especially come late game.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Fair enough, are they buffing him in other areas?

World Ender2 votes

Not currently.

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