I know I've asked this before, but you always seem either busy or just don't answer.
I'm sure the idea's been put on the table before, so I gotta ask: How would you go about it? Highly mobile? Lots of auras? Lots of CC? Or something else?
RiotMeddler7 votesIf we were to develop a dancer champion it would assumedly be because we felt such a champion would allow us to:
To dig into part 1 above, since gameplay's what you've mentioned in your post:
Dancer as an archetype's generally about physical control - agility, discipline, movement, grace and/or power, etc.
Assassin or light fighter are the roles I'd consider most likely to be a good fit as a result, since those attributes align well with the expected actions and fantasies of those roles.
Could potentially make an argument for support as well, Sona's existence as an 'inspires allies with music' champion occupies a lot of the space there though.
Could also go with something a bit unexpected and go for a mage instead (ritual based caster, with long cast times, with dance acting as a channel for magical power)
Regardless of which choice of role you opted for I'd be inclined to start by looking at some form of combo caster (whether melee or ranged), with ability chaining representing dance flow, and different effects based off whether abilities were used as a setup or finisher. Very easy to get into over complicated design with that sort of approach though, so would want to either have some fallback options or be willing to kill the concept if it wasn't showing promise.
darkdill1 votesOuch, sounds like what I've done so far doesn't cut it in that regard.
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/LNeBvXti-freesia-the-spirit-dancer
Think it needs more oomph to it?
RiotMeddler4 votesOnly had time for a quick skim through, main things that leap out are:
darkdill1 votesPart of Freesia's niche is that she is far more maneuverable than any other support Champion with all the dashes she has at her command. This comes at a cost of any harass capability, and her engages are risky early on.
Because she's short-ranged, tankiness is kind of inevitable, but I'm looking to avoid having her with actual tank-level durability. She'd be like a Karma; reasonably tough, but blows up if focused on.
Your suggestion on the ult and E gave me an idea, though. It'd require a bit more gameplay from her ultimate, but would enable more power.
And as always, my numbers are probably a bit off. A few tanky items on Freesia wouldn't be unwelcome, but she still wants AP to bolster her utility strength. I might have too many CC's on her, though. =/
DeathByWaffle1 votesPart of Freesia's niche is that she is far more maneuverable than any other support Champion with all the dashes she has at her command. This comes at a cost of any harass capability, and her engages are risky early on.
Because she's short-ranged, tankiness is kind of inevitable, but I'm looking to avoid having her with actual tank-level durability. She'd be like a Karma; reasonably tough, but blows up if focused on.
Your suggestion on the ult and E gave me an idea, though. It'd require a bit more gameplay from her ultimate, but would enable more power.
That's not really a niche. That's just what her strengths and weaknesses are.
darkdill1 votesMy mistake.
Her niche is that she works really well with maneuverable teammates like Lucian, Ezreal, Kha'Zix, etc., who would outrun other supports or leave them crying from behind a wall (unless they Flash to chase their teammates). She's also great for peel, despite not being a true tank. The abundance of CC's at her command mean that teaming up a Freesia with Ashe can result in enemies being almost completely locked down.
Absolute perfect combo, however, is Freesia/Sivir. Freesia can peel for Sivir all day while Sivir's ultimate makes Freesia's positioning a breeze.
That said, she's no Braum. Braum can block skill-shots, while Freesia cannot. Plus all of Freesia's major CC's are Cleansable, while Braum's ultimate cannot be Cleansed.
Flemman2 votesWhen I think about the dancer class in various videogame, i think the two series who do pretty well with the concept are fire emblem and etrian odyssey.
They both propose a character very fragile (they are often oneshot if in front of the battle) but who buff their ally so much than having them in the team is a big +.
So, in league, if a dancer should be made, the only role I can see it is as a support. To make a niche, i would probably turn him around the concept of "provide cdr for ally" mage who, by using his most powerfull abilities, either debuff himself (ms lower, armor lower,...) or sacrifice his mana pool (for exemple 20% mana for 10% cdr on an ally)
I will also give the champion only one damage ability (like zilean) to put the "I'm here to buff/help you to attack more" before anything else in the champ feeling. For other spell, except the cdr to ally probably for the ulti, something around cc transfert (ex: remove the cc on an ally and put it on himself for the full duration) and another with mana transfert would probably fit the character in the "I give all i have to you" (but no heal ability to not step on soraka territory)
0fficerJenny2 votesWhen I think about the dancer class in various videogame, i think the two series who do pretty well with the concept are fire emblem and etrian odyssey.
They both propose a character very fragile (they are often oneshot if in front of the battle) but who buff their ally so much than having them in the team is a big +.
So, in league, if a dancer should be made, the only role I can see it is as a support. To make a niche, i would probably turn him around the concept of "provide cdr for ally" mage who, by using his most powerfull abilities, either debuff himself (ms lower, armor lower,...) or sacrifice his mana pool (for exemple 20% mana for 10% cdr on an ally)
I will also give the champion only one damage ability (like zilean) to put the "I'm here to buff/help you to attack more" before anything else in the champ feeling. For other spell, except the cdr to ally probably for the ulti, something around cc transfert (ex: remove the cc on an ally and put it on himself for the full duration) and another with mana transfert would probably fit the character in the "I give all i have to you" (but no heal ability to not step on soraka territory)
In final fantasy tactics all the dancers abilities were to give the enemies debuffs. I think this could work really well also. Like you armor shred or apply grievous wounds or something to the enemy with your abilities. I feel like this could be interesting because we lack any champion that really applies debufffs, everybody just has CC instead.
Linna Excel1 votesMeddler, how would a dancer work defensively? Dodge was removed from the game (panth still has block) and that seems like something the dancer would do for defense. Would perhaps adding a percent of move speed or attack speed in to AR and MR suffice as a unique defensive mechanic that makes sense for this champ?
Uberphish2 votesI'm curious - and maybe this wouldn't work for a Dancer type particularly well, but it's something your discussion brought to mind - whether you guys might consider making a champ who works on Magicka-like principles. That is, their abilities are basically elements or forms or runes or sigils that are stacked and combined, only to be discharged in some way when a cap is hit or the player likes what they've made.
Say, for instance, there was the Dancer champ. Q was a spin that dealt a small amount of damage in an area, W was a leap that functioned as a dash and could maybe cross the smallest of walls, E was some other movement (maybe a Plie that 'anchored' their stance, increasing defenses), but R would take the various dance moves that were done and perform some large, more complex maneuver that combined the effects and the order of those effects into some larger, more effective dance that could be directed as it unfolded.
This sort of thing could probably work more easily in a magical/elemental sense - combine effects to make more interesting, differently-shaped, differently functioning effects like Fire + Water = Steam - but I imagine there would be a lot of possible applications for a system that let multiple smaller actions/abilities grow into something greater than the sum of its parts.
Tortferngatr1 votesAFAIK, Riven was sort of intended to fill the assassin/light fighter "battle dancer" role already, and her autoattack/ability weaving does sort of resemble some sort of dance flow. I feel like unless it were a really different take (such as dancing between the front line and back line--I actually saw one dancer ability idea involving a ribbon dance that acted like a skillshot Urgot ultimate), it would be a bit like the Sona overlap from the "support approach."
Fateborn1 votesIf we were to develop a dancer champion it would assumedly be because we felt such a champion would allow us to:
- Offer new gameplay of various forms (new skills to master playing as said champion, the ability to do new things in the game others can't and an impact on how teams think about strategic play).
- Tell a story and present a personality we hadn't already included in the game
- Offer a distinct visual appearance, silhouette especially
- Do all of the above better than other concepts we were considering at the same time (e.g. if looking for a new assassin we'd want to be confident that the dancer idea in question was better than other assassin ideas on the table). Dancer is an idea we've talked about occasionally, so far though we haven't hit on a version we felt was stronger than other options we've been looking at.
To dig into part 1 above, since gameplay's what you've mentioned in your post:
Dancer as an archetype's generally about physical control - agility, discipline, movement, grace and/or power, etc.
Assassin or light fighter are the roles I'd consider most likely to be a good fit as a result, since those attributes align well with the expected actions and fantasies of those roles.
Could potentially make an argument for support as well, Sona's existence as an 'inspires allies with music' champion occupies a lot of the space there though.
Could also go with something a bit unexpected and go for a mage instead (ritual based caster, with long cast times, with dance acting as a channel for magical power)
Regardless of which choice of role you opted for I'd be inclined to start by looking at some form of combo caster (whether melee or ranged), with ability chaining representing dance flow, and different effects based off whether abilities were used as a setup or finisher. Very easy to get into over complicated design with that sort of approach though, so would want to either have some fallback options or be willing to kill the concept if it wasn't showing promise.
In that regards, how would you suppose an ideal dancer for League of Legends universe to look like? Olivia from Fire Emblem Awakening? Kali from Dragon Nest? Or something else entirely different?
Ale non è male2 votesIn that regards, how would you suppose an ideal dancer for League of Legends universe to look like? Olivia from Fire Emblem Awakening? Kali from Dragon Nest? Or something else entirely different?
Eddy from Tekken...
Falcon1 votespower you say? I'm all for a Miley Cyrus champion who's ult twerks so hard its a global knockup and collapses all reksai tunnels. no other champion can do that? her q could be some kind of lucian q only with a huge tongue. now that would be unique and a new fresh look on leauge
Holy Malevolence3 votesFor a dancer champion I'd probably stress mobility above all else. Because.... Well.... Dancer. Probably something like:
Passive: Rhythmic stance. After using an ability, champion enters a stance that increases one of her stats. Subsequent moves change depending on the stance she's in. All three moves excluding her ultimate share a cooldown.
Q: Press. Press stance increases her AP. Switching to press causes her to deal damage in an area around herself. Switching to Step causes her to jump to a nearby target, dealing damage if it's an enemy. Switching to cross deals damage and stuns an enemy for .5 seconds.
W: Step. Step stance increases movespeed. Switching to press moves her a set distance and deals damage to any enemies she moves through. Switching to step allows her to use a moderate range dash, large enough to move over walls. Switching to cross causes her to deal damage to enemies in front of her while she jumps back.
E: Cross. Cross stance increases armor and MR. Switching to press provides a shield. Switching to step moves her a set distance, creating a decoy that lasts for one second who moves in the opposite direction. Switching to cross causes her to nullify the next attack she would get hit with within .5 seconds and reduces the type of damage she would've taken from it by half for three seconds.
R: Dance. The champion declares an enemy to be her dance partner. For eight seconds, her partner takes damage over time if she remains within three hundred units of said champion. If the target dies, the cooldown resets.
Jamnon1 votesWay too complex man. Sounds super cool idea an all but really TLDR man. I should be able to mouse over her in champ select and know how she can help out a certain comp / compete against other comps/trades.
"The other mid is X, if I go Y I can out trade them/take advantage of their immobility/add some CC to my team fights/provide a hard dive assassin to take out their Vayne/etc"
Oleandervine1 votesI would think he/she could have some kind of defensive mechanic similar to Fiora's Parry or Sivir's Spell Shield.
Baron von Jiggly1 voteswhat is or i guess what was an orianna?