Shoudn't Yasuo be strong against ranged (ADC's/Mages) and weak against melee (Tanks/Bruisers)?

Lil Homie busta··1 votes·1,581 views

https://image.ibb.co/jccSkp/Screen110.png

I play this champion for 2 years and to this day i still clueless why he always had access to armor ignoring mechanics. Shouldn't the conjunction of his 475~900 range Q, projectile blocking W, and E's mobility mean that he was made to do well against ranged? Why he has a bonus armor penetration, when most of the time ranged champions only build item 3026 or item 3157 ? Why he doesn't have flat armor penetration, which is good against squishes and weak against tanks? Why he has viable access to Conqueror? Why one of his core items has true damage conversion item 3031?

None of this really makes sense. His only counters are lane bullies and specific picks (Annie Malzahar Kayle, which are ranged champions), that until late~mid game; then after that, he can fight anyone. I mean, he's a late game champion, but should any champion have this power at all?

I wish Yasuo was less of a generalist in terms of dealing damage and more of a niche pick against ranged champions; you know, had his own place in league instead of the 'kill everything/late_game_powerhorse_001.exe' guy.

Edit: Yasuo thread !! Brace yourselves, the downvotes are coming.

12 Comments

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Lil Homie busta1 votes

Yeah. What's the point of creating such ingenious champion if it doesn't have a clear weakness?

King Braum1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wU1jLoXr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-15T19:33:31.498+0000)

Yeah. What's the point of creating such ingenious champion if it doesn't have a clear weakness?

The weakness of the champ lies with the player, unlike many other champions CertainlyT's champions rely on the summoner knowing which tool is used at what time and how to best apply each tool to each situation, this means they lack any obvious weaknesses and that good enough players can straight up avoid any of it by knowing about about the technical aspect of the champion.

In my opinion there is no inhered flaw in this as this means the champions are often weak in inexperienced hands while becoming stronger the more you learn but sadly this rule only applies to the champions of CertainlyT which makes it a problem as now only his champions have this aspect to them making them extremely frustrating to play against.

Beatrice falls1 votes

Ya but I mean, you can give a hammer and a pickaxe to someone and tell him these are his tools, and they are easy to use

Or you can give a damn private jet, a flying car and a jetpack to someone and tell them these are his tools, but he needs to learn how to use them first

PhearBunny2 votes

Theres some weird balancing ideology that its okay for a champ to be mechanically superior to 95% of all champions, while still having higher damage/survivability tunes than less mechanically inclined champions, under the pretense that said champions potential is gated behind "skill".

This of course is absurd. champions like Yasuo, or Zed, who are mechanically better than 95% of the champion pool, should be UNDERTUNED, not over tuned. Their only true weakness is user error.

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

In brief, the answer to your question is no.

To expand, Yasuo’s intended counter class is high damage melees, typically assassins (think Zed, Talon, Xin Zhao). He has specific tools in his kit that counter ranged champions because he is intended to lane against them and function as an alternative (he was one of Riot’s first attempts at an alternate marksman, which is why he does well against other marksmen particularly, and why he scales faster with crit then they do). This means that he does well against tanks, because he’s intended to be a DPS style champion that can take down tanky targets.

As for “access to true damage”: any melee champion has the same access and usability of Conqueror as he does. And he builds crit, which means that Infinity Edge is one of his core items. Is Riot supposed to make specific clauses that say “Yasuo can’t use these things” just because you don’t want him to?

Also, you’re using an image from a bot game to try and make your point?

Lil Homie busta1 votes

Kinda of ignorant from your part saying this

Also, you’re using an image from a bot game to try and make your point?

The point isn't the game mode nor item advantages or build, is the fact that a champion who never was intended to have true damage is able to deal more of it than his normal damage with a default build in a match simulation ambient.

Which brings to the point of him not being weak to what he should be. Even Riot stated that he should be weak against melee back in when they talk about reworking him.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

High damage melee

That’s your assassins and dps heavy fighters, your Zeds, Fioras, Master Yis, those guys. More durable melees that lack damage he’s going to beat because that’s what he’s supposed to do. And Taric is not a high damage melee champion.

And no, using a bot game doesn’t show anything. They are weaker then any actual player and can’t be used as any kind of basis.

Lil Homie busta1 votes

And no, using a bot game doesn’t show anything. They are weaker then any actual player and can’t be used as any kind of basis.

Actually, yes, it does shows. Of course a """bot""" game (more specific, a training mode game) doesn't account player skill, but it's very useful for damage calculation and comproving theoretical damage calculations.

All you need to calculate damage is the engine or the formula. The training mode simulate those using the engine that is used in any other game mode.

You clearly are unable - or purposely refuse - to see my point, i'm not sure if explaining again will work, but let's try shall we?

The point is of this training mode game was to prove that IN NUMBERS, it's possible to deal more true damage than normal damage to an champion using other that wasn't intended to have such type of damage in their kit. All you have to do to prove such thing is to calculate using an common build and rune set item 3006 item 3046 item 3031 item 3072 item 3156 item 3026 . This can be archived by either using the formula or testing on dummies/bots.

High damage melee

Yes, i understand that as a Skirmisher, he should keep with Fiora Tryndamere Riven 's damage, but should he be able to kill a full tank in less than 5 seconds (not putting Taric Bot as example, since he didn't have full build. But it's not something weird to see this days, in fact, i do it a lot when slightly ahead)?

If that's so, Assassins should kill any champion, no matter what their items or resistances, since they're Assassins.

Beatrice falls1 votes

"Yasuo" "weak" ? Those aren't in Riot's minds, Yasuo's is their milking cow

OtterlyLost1 votes

To be fair, he is strong against Mages and ADCs. Honestly, his strength against them is overbearing at times. :/ For me personally, playing an ADC into Yasuo bot is really tilting, especially if he pairs himself with someone like Alistar who eliminates his need to actually hit his tornado. The threat, post 6, from Yasuo dashing through your own minion wave and point black knocking you up is immense and makes actually CSing against him hard. Furthermore, his flow shield, a relic shield start, and boneplating make him impossible to poke out.

That said, he is weak against most tanky melee champions. Darius and Renekton shit on Yasuo.

Shahamut1 votes

That's actually how it is...?

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