Pick a champ and I'll tell you how to beat them

LVL 5 PORO·Sep 1, 2015·17 votes·4,604 views

There are so many post about OP champs, and whats broken, and what needs a nerf, etc. But a lot of the champs people think are overpowered, are not, you just aren't good enough or don't know how to play around them. So, I thought I'd do everyone a favor and tell them how to defeat their most hated champ. I main Mid so I have the best understanding of that champion pool, followed by support and jungle.

Tired of Vayne? Tired of Ahri? Tired of Yasuo? Tired of devourer junglers?

Drop a comment and soon you'll be dumpstering them like you're playing bots.

Edit: It seems I've angered a lot of people that play Vayne. My job here is done. But Vayne is my main ADC so I've screwed myself as well lol.

200 Comments

PredatoreSep 1, 20154 votes

Vayne

LadyRenlySep 1, 20155 votes

Today I've tried out the Morde 5 times, and 4 of those matches had a Vayne. It didn't end well for them.

LVL 5 POROSep 1, 20157 votes

Contrary to what everyone is saying, Vayne does in fact have a terrible early game. Why is her early game so weak? Her range. Her range is terrible, and she doesn't do a lot of damage like Draven, or have poke like Cait. You can exploit this to no end to punish her. The best way to do this is to pick someone like Cait or Lucian into her for adc. They have enough poke to make the laning phase hell for her. Every time Vayne goes to last hit a minion auto attack her, poke her, whittle her down. When she's so low that fighting would be dangerous, zone her from all her cs by standing in or behind the minion wave. By the time the laning phase is over you should have a HUGE cs gap. If you manage to get a kill, even better. With so little gold she'll be no threat in teamfights and you can continue to bully her all game.

Because her early game is so weak Vayne needs a support that will help her survive: Nami, Sona, Soraka, etc. With someone to heal her she has more room to be aggressive and punish you. If her support cant sustain her, be more aggressive in lane.

Vayne's Q is her ONLY escape and way to avoid cc and skillshots. But because her range is so short I see a lot of Vayne player do this: They will Q through the wave and auto attack the enemy adc. This is VERY risky, because like I said, this is her only means of escape. If a Vayne EVER does this to you, beat her into the ground. CC her, auto her, chunk her down. Without Q she will have to walk back through the wave, with no escape, and you will be within AA range to continuously whittle her down.

In bot I usually play support. So, if you want to know what supports to play against her: Nami, Lulu, Leona, Naut. My FAVORITE support to play against her, and my main support, is Nami. If you play Nami into Vayne you have 100% chance of dumping on her. Why? Vayne CANNOT trade with Nami under any circumstances. EVER. Because Vayne's range is so short she will be within Nami's W range A LOT. Whenever Vayne is within range of Nami AA,W,AA her. This will take out a chunk of her hp, even if you cant AA her use W. Because Nami's W heals her, if Vayne AA's you, you wont lose any hp, every time Nami trades with Vayne she wins. So the only thing Vayne can do is get zoned. The other supports I mentioned have high kill pressure or poke, something Vayne never wants to deal with in lane.

Finally, against Vayne. Make SURE you get to level 2 first in lane. With something like a Leona support you can all-in her at level 2 while shes at level one and SEVERELY cripple her.

I hope you find this useful and good luck.

BakedLotionSep 1, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Ange Noir Von,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wRijx9GX,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2015-09-01T01:19:23.453+0000)

Contrary to what everyone is saying, Vayne does in fact have a terrible early game. Why is her early game so weak? Her range. Her range is terrible, and she doesn't do a lot of damage like Draven, or have poke like Cait. You can exploit this to no end to punish her. The best way to do this is to pick someone like Cait or Lucian into her for adc. They have enough poke to make the laning phase hell for her. Every time Vayne goes to last hit a minion auto attack her, poke her, whittle her down. When she's so low that fighting would be dangerous, zone her from all her cs by standing in or behind the minion wave. By the time the laning phase is over you should have a HUGE cs gap. If you manage to get a kill, even better. With so little gold she'll be no threat in teamfights and you can continue to bully her all game.

Because her early game is so weak Vayne needs a support that will help her survive: Nami, Sona, Soraka, etc. With someone to heal her she has more room to be aggressive and punish you. If her support cant sustain her, be more aggressive in lane.

Vayne's Q is her ONLY escape and way to avoid cc and skillshots. But because her range is so short I see a lot of Vayne player do this: They will Q through the wave and auto attack the enemy adc. This is VERY risky, because like I said, this is her only means of escape. If a Vayne EVER does this to you, beat her into the ground. CC her, auto her, chunk her down. Without Q she will have to walk back through the wave, with no escape, and you will be within AA range to continuously whittle her down.

In bot I usually play support. So, if you want to know what supports to play against her: Nami, Lulu, Leona, Naut. My FAVORITE support to play against her, and my main support, is Nami. If you play Nami into Vayne you have 100% chance of dumping on her. Why? Vayne CANNOT trade with Nami under any circumstances. EVER. Because Vayne's range is so short she will be within Nami's W range A LOT. Whenever Vayne is within range of Nami AA,W,AA her. This will take out a chunk of her hp, even if you cant AA her use W. Because Nami's W heals her, if Vayne AA's you, you wont lose any hp, every time Nami trades with Vayne she wins. So the only thing Vayne can do is get zoned. The other supports I mentioned have high kill pressure or poke, something Vayne never wants to deal with in lane.

Finally, against Vayne. Make SURE you get to level 2 first in lane. With something like a Leona support you can all-in her at level 2 while shes at level one and SEVERELY cripple her.

I hope you find this useful and good luck.

Her Range is higher than sivir,graves,lucians, minigun jinx, quinn, and prob more that im missing. How is her range terrible? It's literally the standard range for ranged carries.

LVL 5 POROSep 1, 20153 votes

Its not just her range. Its her damage as well. Everyone you listed has a way to deal with her if she chooses to get in AA range. Sivir has long range poke and a shield, graves has burst, lucian has poke, jinx rocket does waay more damage, quinn has a blind and slow. If she ever gets in range of anyone you listed she will lose the trade with them.

BakedLotionSep 1, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Ange Noir Von,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wRijx9GX,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2015-09-01T02:28:39.076+0000)

Its not just her range. Its her damage as well. Everyone you listed has a way to deal with her if she chooses to get in AA range. Sivir has long range poke and a shield, graves has burst, lucian has poke, jinx rocket does waay more damage, quinn has a blind and slow. If she ever gets in range of anyone you listed she will lose the trade with them.

lel auto tumble auto takes 2 secs at most and does nearly half ur hp and then she just condemns u away she doesn't lose trades cause supports exist and makes sure she can proc 3 bolts

LVL 5 POROSep 1, 20155 votes

half your hp? exaggerating much.

Trash ADC BtwSep 1, 20153 votes

In early game, as a carry, a single proc of silver bolts and 3 AAs at level 3 assuming 2/3 AD runes and 1/3 AS runes

217.2+21.72 physical damage without items or masteries assuming a mitigation of about 25% from armor we get 179.19 damage Plus True Damage = to 20+(let's assume about 600 HP)24

Total damage from three autos = 223.19 damage, or ~37% before factoring Masteries or an item.

If we assume that Vayne got a Doran's Blade and went at least all into the offensive masteries, the number increases to

5.5+~14+7*1.05 = 27.825 bonus AD on top of her base of 58

let's improve the max HP of the enemy in this example to 680 to account for level and their own Doran's

Attack 1 does 85.825 damage Attack 2 (Tumbled) does 111.5725 damage Attack 3 (Silver Bolts) does 85.825 Physical damage and 47.2 true damage

Assuming the same armor mitigation +6% Pen, we find 20% mitigation

Appx 274.7 damage from three autos or 40% Max HP in three autos.

Using Tumble appropriately as a reset, she can proc silver bolts in appx 2 seconds.

LVL 5 POROSep 1, 20154 votes

Dang, that's nice. But if you let Vayne proc three autos on you in a random exchange you deserve it. You can get dorans to sustain through it, use a potion, or get healed from your support. Tumbling into an adc is risky. After that tumble she has to back off so she'll take at least 2 or 3 autos plus whatever you exchange, so either way you'll come out ahead.

Trash ADC BtwSep 1, 20152 votes

That is true, depending on your support and hers. If a leona E/Q's you the three hit exchange is almost perfectly safe. Same Applies to Blitz hook/Knock up or Thresh hook/Flay the enemy back after you're done beating on them. It's dangerous out there.

On the other hand, if they have a Nami, the bubble could save you, and if they have leona or thresh, the situation resets to neutral with a slight advantage to Vayne after the engage. Also bear in mind that this is assuming Vayne's support or Vayne herself engages on you, not the other way around.

The numbers Drop HARD against a Graves from his Armor/MR passive, assuming it's fully stacked in the early game it mitigates appx 6% additional Physical damage, or about 5.5% of the total damage, leaving him closer to 1/3 HP down after the hard engage.

Lady HammerlockSep 1, 20152 votes

do people still forget most adcs have 1.someway of long range trading in the lane 2.range steroids vayne may have 2 ad steroids but her early isn't weak she just has low kill pressure pre bork

SquidblimpSep 1, 20152 votes

People like to QQ about Vayne a lot, and sure, she's overtuned compared to a lot of ADCs right now. However, it's the other ADCs that needs buffs, Vayne honestly doesn't need a ton of nerfs. I would say that Vayne should have some of her cooldowns increased, or increased mana costs perhaps.

Lady HammerlockSep 2, 20151 votes

then she would be ashit champion

SquidblimpSep 3, 20152 votes

Disagree.

Vicarious117Sep 1, 20152 votes

I have a hard time taking the advice of a silver who mostly plays normals very seriously :/

LVL 5 POROSep 1, 20155 votes

You dont have to, thats fine. I'm not saying I'm faker and know how to instawin games but to a degree every champ has a weakness and if you play long enough you'll learn what they are and how to exploit them. I'm just sharing the minuscule knowledge that i have learned.

Valor BotSep 1, 20151 votes

Heimerdinger

LVL 5 POROSep 1, 20153 votes

Dont play a melee champ.

Ahri will stomp a heimer, I highly recommend using her. Syndra is also good because she can throw his turrets. If its heimer top and you are melee, you have no choice but to farm under the turret. If its heimer mid and you're a mage then its easy. EVERYTIME you lane against a heimer make sure you get to lane first. As soon as that loading screen is finished, get your items and rush to lane. Why? Heimer will want to put his turrets down but when you get to lane first you can destroy them before the minions spawn. WIthout his turrets he cant push the wave and putting them down cost a lot of mana. Choose someone that can push the wave just as hard as him.

When you go to destroy a turret they will fire a laser when you are within range. Make sure you juke it to avoid a lot of damage. After that, it'll go back to attacking the minions. Destroy it then. Without his turrets Heimer is dead and you can easily bully him. However, after his first back he will get a chalice or something to sustain his mana. At this point, destroying his turrets is useless because they no longer cost anything to put them down and he can spam them all day.

So, take out his turrets with range and poke him down. Without his turrets you can easily 1v1 kill him. After they are destroyed you can even call your jungler to get help with a kill. He's easy pickings. Good luck.

Edit: Its risky, but try to force him under the turret once you destroy his turrets. You are susceptible to ganks but this way he cant push the wave or harass you, he can only get denied cs. This is a lot safer to do with Ahri because her ult allows her to get away. But if you are going against a devourer jungler or someone with no gank pressure like ekko, push that lane to hell.

YumaS2AstralSep 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Ange Noir Von,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wRijx9GX,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2015-09-01T02:19:18.729+0000)

Dont play a melee champ.

Ahri will stomp a heimer, I highly recommend using her. Syndra is also good because she can throw his turrets. If its heimer top and you are melee, you have no choice but to farm under the turret. If its heimer mid and you're a mage then its easy. EVERYTIME you lane against a heimer make sure you get to lane first. As soon as that loading screen is finished, get your items and rush to lane. Why? Heimer will want to put his turrets down but when you get to lane first you can destroy them before the minions spawn. WIthout his turrets he cant push the wave and putting them down cost a lot of mana. Choose someone that can push the wave just as hard as him.

When you go to destroy a turret they will fire a laser when you are within range. Make sure you juke it to avoid a lot of damage. After that, it'll go back to attacking the minions. Destroy it then. Without his turrets Heimer is dead and you can easily bully him. However, after his first back he will get a chalice or something to sustain his mana. At this point, destroying his turrets is useless because they no longer cost anything to put them down and he can spam them all day.

So, take out his turrets with range and poke him down. Without his turrets you can easily 1v1 kill him. After they are destroyed you can even call your jungler to get help with a kill. He's easy pickings. Good luck.

Edit: Its risky, but try to force him under the turret once you destroy his turrets. You are susceptible to ganks but this way he cant push the wave or harass you, he can only get denied cs. This is a lot safer to do with Ahri because her ult allows her to get away. But if you are going against a devourer jungler or someone with no gank pressure like ekko, push that lane to hell.

Actually, there is one melee champ that is the only one capable of laning against Heimerdinger: Chogath

Why? Because he can destroy Heimer's turrets from a safe distance with his silence and his rupture. Thanks to Cho's passive, he can heal himself from Heimer's harass. The early game will still be somewhat difficult as you probably can't kill Heimerdinger, but Cho'Gath is the only melee who isn't completely stomped by him during the early game.

Also, after 6 you can just use Heimer's turrets as fodder for Cho's Feast. As the game pass, Cho'Gath becomes too tanky to be killed by Heimerdinger alone, yet he becomes extremely powerful too.

FluxBoundSep 1, 20153 votes

As that one Sion main said earlier this week, just yell his turrets into weird places

TheI3igDaddySep 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Ange Noir Von,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wRijx9GX,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2015-09-01T02:19:18.729+0000) Dont play a melee champ.

Sion Those are some nice turrets you got there...would suck if someone...used them to damage you...

LVL 5 POROSep 2, 20152 votes

True. There's an exception to every rule but most melees cant deal with his turrets like Sion can.

Comrade NapoleonSep 1, 20153 votes

DON'T PICK Syndra JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE TOLD YOU SHE IS A COUNTER! unless you are used to play her generally. iv stomped so many poor players picking syndra with my donger just because someone told them she is a counter. the idea is to remove his turrets without losing health with minimum mana use possible, i find Orianna Ziggs are very capable to do this because of their passives (strong enhanced AA), plus any "poke AD champ" like Varus

warpenguin555Sep 1, 20151 votes

Fizz

LVL 5 POROSep 1, 20154 votes

Fizz is completely 100% broken. The best thing you can do is ban him every game. But if you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to lane against him, this is what you do:

Harass. Harass. Harass.

Because he's melee you can poke him down hard with auto attacks. In mid take hybrid pen marks to give you more auto damage and hit him as much as possible, you have to be REALLY aggressive with your auto. Every cs should cost him blood. This annoying fucker has to be shut down fast or you're screwed.

Let me just say this: I have never in my life played a game where Fizz didnt get fed. Even when he laned against me, once he realized I wouldnt give him a kill he would get fed somewhere else. He's just too broken. Feel free to look at my match history, whenever I've had a game with him he's went like 21/3 or something. Swain is good against him because he can lock him down. But everyone else is pretty much screwed. He can 100 to 0 you in lane without his ult and a few auto attacks while barely taking damage.

If at any point Fizz gets ahead, dont fight him. You're dead. Unless you are extremely broken as well i.e. Xin, Shyvana, Mord, Elise, etc ....

Also, no matter what, the first item you buy against Fizz is Qss or take cleanse to remove his ult.

Edit: Also, if you have 30% hp or lower. Back. No matter what. If you dont he'll kill you. Turrets dont mean anything to Fizz, he will dive you, he will kill you, and he will get away. Never stay in lane with low hp with Fizz.

Toothierosprey3Sep 1, 20152 votes

Harass through his Crystaline Flask? Sorry, but as a Fizz main the only people that beat him in lane are people like Diana or a good Yasuo. Most champs run oom trying to poke him through his flask.

JavelinJoeSep 3, 20152 votes

Kayle She out pokes him and can heal. Her ult is basically saying "well, you tried to all in me and now you don't have anything left to escape with so... your dead". But be careful to **always **call mia because fizz is, in my opinion, the #1 champ for gaining roaming kills.

MohawkBirdSep 3, 20151 votes

[deleted]

JavelinJoeSep 3, 20151 votes

ok kat is also good, but i've shut her down more times than a fizz when she ganks

5000000000000000Sep 1, 20151 votes

Huh, I thought this thread would be a sarcastic one. Like I thought you'd say "Step 1: cry."

But seriously. How do you counter Soraka? I play as her a lot, so I want to know what it'd be like to be countered as her.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 1, 20151 votes

Don't let her destroy you early. Her late game is honestly complete garbage, so you don't really have to worry too much about it if you can just wait it out. Try playing Jinx or shudders Vayne into her if you are the ADC, or somebody like Braum or Alistar or somebody else with hard engage, farm early, and just wait until late game to absolutely wreck her.

At least, that's what I did against the Soraka I just played against.

5000000000000000Sep 1, 20151 votes

How does Soraka destroy her lane opponent? She's like the least aggressive support there is.

WalkingInACircleSep 1, 20154 votes

Better Soraka's are quite aggressive with their autos and heal off starcall. They only go into heal bot mode if they're losing or if against a champ like blitz who'll flip their aggression on them.

ks916Sep 1, 20151 votes

How do I beat azir kalista, and viktor when I see em top and im melee like garen, voli, morde. :P

FluxBoundSep 1, 20154 votes

Azir is really weak early if you have engage. Let him waste his Q and then go for him. I think the same goes for viktor, but I've never gone against him top.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 1, 20153 votes

Azir: Don't let him poke you. It's hard, but try to at least stay far enough away from his soldiers that he has to move them closer, which is annoying to him and costs a lot of mana.

Kalista: She is heavily nerfed in the top lane, as much of her power is in her ability to bond with her Oathsworn. She will most likely bond with her jungler, so if you see the line between her and that bush pop up, back off. Staying will end in death.

Viktor: His top lane power is also a lot worse, as his E (lazer) is difficult to hit when minions aren't in a straight line. Don't let him hit his W (stun field) ever, don't let yourself get hit by his E, and stay a decent amount away if he has his ult (big death lazer circle) up.

Remember this as well: No matter how much gold you're losing, no matter how much XP you're losing, don't let yourself just die. If you have to miss a lot of minions, it's okay as long as the enemy isn't getting a lot of kills. You don't want to get to the point where you start to play safely, and realize that your enemy is so powerful that they can destroy you, safety or not.

LVL 5 POROSep 4, 20151 votes

Freeze the lane at your turret and dont give them any kills

kurthl33tSep 1, 20151 votes

What about Brand? I've tried several different midlaners (in no particular order: Katarina, Diana, Anivia, Orianna) and he always seems to pwn me.

Stars ShaperSep 2, 20151 votes

Poppy Is the only 1 I can't figure out

LVL 5 POROSep 2, 20151 votes

Honestly, I rarely see Poppy so I dont have much to go on. Her ult makes her super tanky. Ideally, you should avoid fighting her near walls or she'll dash you against them and beat you up, which does a lot of damage. Pick someone like Shyv or Tryn who can duel her reliably.

Stars ShaperSep 2, 20152 votes

Her being rare to see is one of the facts that makes her hard to deal against^^ I really can't get how to out trade her. The few times I've met her she just out damaged me and there was nothig I could do.

LVL 5 POROSep 2, 20151 votes

I laned against her top once. Shyvana out trades her but besides that I dont really know.

Stars ShaperSep 2, 20151 votes

K thanks for the info :)

TheHypeGokuSep 2, 20151 votes

You're silver. Why is silver giving advice?

LVL 5 POROSep 2, 20153 votes

Because its a free country. #DealWithIt

Stars ShaperSep 2, 20152 votes

Maybe because ppl like you who only see their boosted e-peen could get some benefits from suggestions of a person who (probably) had put thought into it and not simply dashing into matches hoping that sooner or later he will get out of elo hell by pure luck.