He has a high winrate and a high playrate. Imo his earlygame needs to be nerfed for how well he scales since he can just stonewall the laning phase and even outtrade lane bullies. I think his E cooldown needs to be increased and possibly his Q cooldown too to give the enemy laner a wider window to beat jax and make jax's laning phase less safe before he turns into a hypermobile unstoppable beast.
PhearBunny17 votesHere is Jax in a nutshell--
Builds Trinity+Titanic+Steraks(Bruiser). Becomes God tier assassin(wtf?). Becomes God tier bruiser(Okay, makes sense.). Becomes God tier tank(wtf?). Becomes God tier sustained dps(wtf?). Has S tier mobility. Has outplay potential.
He is overloaded to an extreme. He is a Assassin, Tank, hypercarry all at the same time. Obviously needs to be nerfed into only fulfilling 1 role with a freakin bruiser build.
Z3Sleeper9 votesYou forgot:
Becomes God tier splitpusher Becomes God tier tower destroyer Becomes God tier duelist Becomes bane of all basic attack reliant champions
Seer of Mind2 votes
Z3Sleeper6 votesWhat does that do? Tickle his damage output?
Doesn't seem to do much about his 3s base CD W that deals 180 magic damage or his every 3rd auto 220 magic damage besides the 15% cripple.
Not to mention 20% of that armor is negated by Conqueror.
Or did you mean the thorns passive? The one that deals magic damage which guess who gains 30-70+ mr by ulting?
And if you built this that means you forgo'd a damage item, which means it's gonna take even longer to chew through his health with his ult's bonus armor and mr.
So sure, now you live maybe a full extra second, but now you take an extra 5 or more to kill him.
Barcid8 votesThat was never really a problem before (I mean excluding his release and when dodge stat was a thing, good lord). Issue isn't so much Jax as the meta and Conqueror allows him to do shit he shouldn't.
Jax now out-trades tanks in lane and brute-forces them to oblivion.
Jax gets a myriad of free stats to aid his historically dog-shit early-game, including bonus AD from Conq and the bonus bulk from his ult.
The true damage guarantees you can't actually itemize against Jax.
And in a time when the most oppressive enemies are bursty-as-fuck champions from botlane, being able to render them completely meaningless is a very powerful trait.
SithesisLord1 votesThe true damage guarantees you can't actually itemize against Jax.
It's not like you could itemize efficiently against him before. He does deal magic damage too, after all.
Barcid3 votesWhile true, his damage was lower due to him having to scale first, and his first items were generally AD if he didn't want to get blown up, which meant after laning if he didn't come out on top (which with literally no poke and previously not having the ability to just all-in freely without getting punished to hell, he usually came up either just even or getting stomped) Jax had a period of "down time" in which he basically was nothing but a periphery in any team skirmishes, either being on clean-up duty or having to back out relatively quickly.
Now he just leaps in and kills the ADC without a second thought. Unless you have the CC to keep him at bay, he pretty much just rolls his face on the keyboard and stomps his way forward.
Disembark3 votes"Hashinshin makes good points tho" - as he still complains tanks are OP and Jax is weak.
rtbf2216514121 votesHere is Jax in a nutshell--
Builds Trinity+Titanic+Steraks(Bruiser). Becomes God tier assassin(wtf?). Becomes God tier bruiser(Okay, makes sense.). Becomes God tier tank(wtf?). Becomes God tier sustained dps(wtf?). Has S tier mobility. Has outplay potential.
He is overloaded to an extreme. He is a Assassin, Tank, hypercarry all at the same time. Obviously needs to be nerfed into only fulfilling 1 role with a freakin bruiser build.
Subtract some of that and you get 
Z3Sleeper1 votesThat's the point, subtract some of that and you get something more balanced.
NemeBro1 votesThat's the point, subtract some of that and you get something more balanced.
Nasus is dogshit though.
Atmosphere2 votesDogshit
BigFBear2 votesHe just need a complete rework.
I can't even see a red line in his kit/role. He is just a weird old-design champion who can do everything. He need a clear concept in his kit and his role.
Even his lore sucks. A random dude with a lamp as a weapon? Wtf? Just delete him and make a new champ.
Seer of Mind2 votesHis lore made sense before the massive retcon.
Alex h872113 votesif you think jax can out-trade lane bullies you've never lanes against 
or 
with him lol. is more of a skill matchup b/c you can get inside his Q w/ your Q but just straight up out-trades you even w/ your E.
feintfiend4 votes[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wNikfOAE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-07T17:20:47.538+0000)
if you think jax can out-trade lane bullies you've never lanes against
I mean outtrade as in Jax just leaps,stuns them, gets his W off than runs away leaving little room to respond.
Alex h87214 votesthats actually a very subi-optimal trading pattern for jax because it leaves all his abilities on CD, so darius for example could pull him back in and combo him.
The better pattern for jax is get in the wave and set up conqueror on minions, then start bopping enemy laner, maybe w/ a w reset, pop E when they try to trade back and then you can use your Q to follow if they try to run or jump away to one of your caster minions having won the trade.
The combo you are talking about it much more relevant to jungle jax who uses it for ganks E>q in> E reactivation for the stun then w for aa reset damage.
Saezio1 votes[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wNikfOAE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-07T17:36:22.549+0000)
thats actually a very subi-optimal trading pattern for jax because it leaves all his abilities on CD, so darius for example could pull him back in and combo him.
Also, are we gonna ignore the fact that trading pattern is just suicide vs any jungler with more than 3 operating brain cells?
Ifneth1 votes[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wNikfOAE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-07T17:36:22.549+0000)
thats actually a very subi-optimal trading pattern for jax because it leaves all his abilities on CD, so darius for example could pull him back in and combo him.
The better pattern for jax is get in the wave and set up conqueror on minions, then start bopping enemy laner, maybe w/ a w reset, pop E when they try to trade back and then you can use your Q to follow if they try to run or jump away to one of your caster minions having won the trade.
The combo you are talking about it much more relevant to jungle jax who uses it for ganks E>q in> E reactivation for the stun then w for aa reset damage.
Note, it’s E for Empower, W for counterstrike.
Nevermind!
Z3Sleeper5 votesGood Jax's don't leap in, they leap out.
True Jax combo: Walk up and press E, AA-W-AA until E runs out, then walk away. If enemy has trading potential, add Q out at the end of combo.
This combo works because at some point the enemy melee top laner will go for CS. The enemy has no choice unless they want to give up all CS cuz good Jax's never push the lane and just last hit (before Tiamat anyway so they can roam).
There's 0 reason for Jax to Q in. Q'ing in removes his only get out of jail free card. So unless he's against a Quinn, Teemo or some other ranged top laner, or the enemy is low enough to die in one combo, he's never gonna Q in.
Oakleaf Ranger4 votesI can't speak for the Renekton match up but Jax shits on Darius now after Conqueror was added to the game.
Z3Sleeper3 votesI've played against a good Jax as Renekton before (Hashinshin actually). Renekton's engage is so telegraphed that there's actually 0 reason Jax should ever lose that one.
If you E in as Renekton, Jax will immediately prime counterstrike and start attacking. Trying to stun him during this does nothing so ofcourse another option is wait til it runs out to then use W on him but that doesn't work either cuz immediately after the stun he'll either walk too far away (Rene E has already timed out by then) or you preemptively reactivate your E just before the stun to dash behind him to land it however in this case you're still stunned and he can clearly see what you're doing so he'll just Q over you and walk away.
If Jax engages on Renekton (Counterstrike -> basic attack + W until E runs out) then Renekton can retaliate a bit. Once the stun is about to come out you can E through him, E again to follow his Q and then W -> walk away. This trade comes out fairly even-ish but it's in no way in Renekton's favor.
The only real "winning" trade combo is to just E in, Q and E out. This way you don't proc minion aggro at all so if he retaliates he has to use his Q as well and after counterstrike he'll take some minion aggro. The damage from champions comes out roughly even but the minions give a slight advantage after their 1 auto attack they can get off after the stun. What this does though is put his abilities on cooldown so you have the advantage of lane control until his E comes back up since you have W up still. It's a very small advantage but the 30+ gold lead you can acquire here helps a bit.
All this only gets worse with time though, since Jax scales so much faster than Renekton.
I remember back when this matchup was even, and that was in the days where Renekton was the "King of Top Lane". He's since fallen far from that title and Jax has been essentially untouched. There's no reason Jax should be losing this matchup now especially with new runes favoring him much more than Renekton.
Btw, the only kills I was able to secure against him were because Hash in particular loves to over-extend and get ganked, kind of his thing.
VermillionWolf1 votes[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wNikfOAE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-07T17:20:47.538+0000)
if you think jax can out-trade lane bullies you've never lanes against
As a Darius main I have to say it favours Jax more than you think. If your Q as is dodged you've basically wasted 1 second doing nothing and your heal is gone for 7 seconds early game, you haven't stack or anything while Jax (who has just dodged your Q by using his Q) dealt damage and gap closed, his E denies you stacks completely then stuns you and everything else just straight up out damages you. The only saving grace is that if your experienced as Darius you can pull him as his E runs out. But again thats just a mind game to see when he reactivates it.
Z3Sleeper1 votesDarius' counterplay here is to use his Q to poke and try to goad Jax into retaliating with counterstrike. There's absolutely nothing he can do about counterstrike but eat it here.
Once Jax's E is on CD then Darius controls the lane until it's back up (since E and W are still available). This means either CS denial or some free damage if he tries to CS.
Sadly this all means that Darius can never make the first move cuz Counterstrike is pretty obnoxiously strong. It's really up to the Jax player whether or not he wants to die in this lane.
Tychusfindlay9189 votesCounterstrike has ludicrious strength at level 1 no doubt.
It's what allows him to have such insane cheese strength in the early game especially against people who don't necessarily know how to play around it, but even against people who do it's still a massive pain.
It would be nice if Jax just got a rework, because the trading pattern of even the best jaxes in the world boils down to "I used Q to jump on you then I smashed your face in while my E prevented retaliation."
GripaAviara9 votesJax problem is that he has way too much burst for a champion that can then go in a dueling frenzy
Doge20206 votesI have a really easy time against jax as nasus, I just wait for the jax to engage with q and e. I wait until the stun wears off before I use w and run him down with q and ult. Once played a game where my laner (who was jax) killed me like 3-4 times early, but then my brother who was mid ganked top (as brand) with the jungler and they camped him. When I got my triforce I was able to easily run him down and kill him over and over, and of course he got my tower early and was pushed up so more room for me to run him down lol. He fed hard after that.
Fckjaxsuo43v3r1 votesYou just told that you needed 3 guys to stop his butchery. And since it worked, I guess either Jax was bad or built the wrong items, or your mates were good enough to kill him with 2 champs and a minion is disguise (nasus far behind). That's exactly what people complain about, you need 3 guys to stop him (and that's before he's gotten 3 items). I just played against a jax that healed 50+ hp per hit with...DORAN'S BLADE! Yeah it's complete bullshit, healing like the bloodthirster + essencereaver + PD sivir with only a 450 gold item while having 2500 hp, 1.7 or so AS, 20+% CDR and 500-700 damage PER AUTO (so nearly 1000-1400 damage PER SECOND).
BTW, his Lux took all the kills at the point we shit on him for 20+ minutes, then he reached his powerspike and 1v3 us to death non stop. Sure when he can stick to you while killing you in 1-3 seconds with hydra's AOE damage to soften all of us at once, his no counterplay E and R...I had 5.5 items he had 3.5 he just rendered the 3 of us useless (377 AD Hecarim youmuu BC trinity tiamat swiftness warrior). And it was 3v3 blind pick with Sivir (why on earth pick sivir in this mode in blind pick?) and AP Leona. Not that her going tank would've changed much anyway. Lux was so fed it was hard to kill her, MF just put sivir mid life in 1 auto even after being shit on for 15-20 minutes, she dealt 30% of my hp on the 1st hit.
Fízz v26 votesyeah, thank hashinshin crying for months and riot listening to it XD
Z3Sleeper3 votesAll they did was fix Jax's E bug right? Other than that he's been untouched and plans for nerfing him have never been discussed AFAIK.
Time to discuss though.
Killer of Night96 votesI think his mid-late game damage are a bit too high (he can basically jump to a carry and oneshot him just like assassin do) for how much tank he is (at 3 damage item, you can't outduel him in any scenario).
BrightWîngs6 votesI just dont think i should get out traded if I have a full item on him and he just has 2 
and 
does a quarter of my health with just one trade
rayzo6 votesmale champions can be nerfed only after 2:30
Zeromatsu6 votesConqueror is just too good on him. He gets A LOT of attack speed for free, so the extra ad from conqueror hurts. Also you can't build anything against him. Even before he dealt ad and magic damage and now he also has true damage.
MOLTinaTOR5 votesJax is probably one of the most overloaded champs in the game. AOE stun, a gap closer, his abilities hurt, his autoattacks hurt, can out duel almost every champ, can block AA and a portion of AOE damage, gets extra resistances with ult, mega damage every third AA, can one shot squishes and melt tanks and let's not forget his absurd engage potential and him being one of the best splitpushers. The champ is just too perfect it's actually insane.
limebuster4 votesCompletely agree with you here, for a champ that has amazing damage and tanky stats, his early game doesn’t leave him vulnerable enough for counterplay. The safety with his q contributes to this as well
Summonah123694 votes
> 
My Names Gumbas4 votesHashinshin Intensifies
Ignika D3 voteshe is poorly design he can dodge every auto ok cool but also get a 25% aoe damage reduction why the hell ? did he the dodged too early no problem click r and get free defence , also his ulti passive is another free w every 3 autos
SweedishGunner3 votesI'd rather nerf his late game if anything, he just seems to do a little bit too much damage whilst being a little too tanky.
ChasmOfTrossm2 votesNerf the defensive stats he gets on activating his ultimate, specifically the AD-to-armor conversion ratio. This way building a fuckton of damage doesn't come with a fuckton of armor. This makes the Trinity force + Essence Reaver more risky for him, and enables bruisers who are building like they should to punish him for screwing up.
SHANK LUX MAINS2 votesId rather him be op than tanks be strong and hes part of whats keeping them out of the meta which is good for the game until riot reworks them to not 100-0 squishies
Stróc Dúnmharú2 votesYou make some interesting points, but none of that has anything to do with ass-to-mouth...
delete shaco2 votesThe only thing too strong about him realistically is the lvl 1 dodge cheese, and that’s literally only because of conqueror.
Try playing Jax and tell me how easy it is to actually farm with him. And not some easy shit like a tryndamere, lane against literally every other meta top laner and see for yourself.
Mews992 votessort of a TL;DR at bottom and this is coming from an avid player of Jax but not pro or anything like that.
I agree Jax is a little on the strong side and could use some tweaks and adjustments here and there BUT...
First, It's not just him, it's masteries, items AND player incompetence that is making him so strong.
Now what do i mean by "player incompetence"? I'm not saying you're stupid for losing against Jax. What it means is not running away from Jax when he E's, grouping up and getting AOE stunned by Jax, NOT using AP against him, AP hurts Jax like a motherfucker and before you say "but jax can just build magic resist", well while he's building magic resist he's: not building 
or 
the worst offenders as you'll read in point 3 and he's not building armor, now Jax doesn't need armor as much as other champions do because of his E but it's not like he doesn't need armor at all and in point 2 you'll see why.
Second, Jax is a lot more vulnerable while is E is on CD, of course he isn't completely defenseless without it but people underestimate how vulnerable he actually is without his E.
Third, Items and masteries also make Jax a lot stronger + being the worst offenders and Conqueror as well.
Now there is prob more i could say but i just wanted to say something for now and let me say this again i DON'T think Jax is weak he IS strong right now but it's not just him it's: Items, Masteries, and people not playing properly around Jax AKA "player incompetence" as i like to call it.
Revali1 votesThe way they should touch jax imo is his passive R and his R's armor/mr ratio.
Him dealing somewhat high damage isn't the main issue as it's more you cant really fight back against him because he has way better stats then you save for some champs where he just suicides jumping into like Illaoi.
SS19861 votesIf nasus did not have to stack and got 3 stacks just for minions dying near him he would be jax level op be able to max E and actually win lane before 6 then snowball like crazy as he instant 1 shot minion waves still not as mobile but likely directly a bit stronger .
5050BS1 votes
+ WQ
This is the SAME issue 
has(d)
They should also lower the radius on his e. 300 is A LOT for a (primarily) defensive ability. To put it perspective, rakan's aa is 250 and urgot's aa is 350.
