Is Yasuo supposed to be a Late Game Hyper Carry or Early Game Lane Bully?

warpenguin555·Nov 24, 2015·225 votes·12,987 views

Because right now he's both. And if Azir cant get away with it, why can Yasuo?

151 Comments

HeadHonchkrowNov 24, 201566 votes

Riot be like http://i.imgur.com/fzZU5wH.jpg"

DarthSpectrumNov 25, 201536 votes

It really depends on the match-up.

Surprisingly, Yasuo isn't a good early game champion and he is countered by almost every melee solo lane champion in League and a good portion of ranged champions. However, the problem is that in the mid lane, he rarely runs into the champions that counters him.

As a Syndra, Lux, or Ahri, Yasuo is absolutely aggregating to play against. He can Wind Wall or dash out of most skill shots, and his passive shield is just frustrating to deal with when playing a poke champion.

Even though Yasuo actually has a mediocre early game, he still feels oppressive to many mages because his kit is designed to negate skill shot damage. Next time, try playing a mage with targeted spells such as Malzahar or Annie.

Annie absolutely obliterates Yasuo. Tibbers goes through Wind Wall, and her stun isn't consumed if Yasuo blocks her Q. Take a look at Yasuo's stats on Champion.gg. He barely manages to scrap by with 42 to 43% win rate against Annie. Likewise, Yasuo is also hard countered by other champions such as Swain and Malzahar. The moment you bring targeted spells or spells that he cannot dodge to the table, Yasuo suddenly becomes a lot weaker. In my experience, Cho'gath works exceptionally well.

Yasuo is as much as an early game bully and late game carry as Jax or Vayne is. Most top lane champions can out trade Jax early, and frankly most ADCs have an edge over Vayne before she gets her first two items. However, put Jax against any AA reliant melee champion or put Vayne against any melee match up and suddenly their early game seems godly. Jax is meant to counter AA champions just like Vayne can counter melee champions by kiting.

The same is with Yasuo. Yasuo's concept was thought up in a time when all the damage dealers were ranged. So he was equipped with abilities that heavily counters skill shot champions so he can be played as a replacement for a mage or assassin in the mid lane.

SpongebobIsLifeNov 25, 20159 votes

very, very well said my friend +1

Infernal CypherNov 25, 20152 votes

This^. Yasuo really does have a rough time in the early game against a ton of champs, he just rarely faces them because people so stubbornly stick to the meta (which currently favors yas in most of the mid-lane match-ups) and their chosen lane even when its to their detriment. You don't generally see yas top because he would be crushed by the in-meta top laners, so most of the complaints about him would be solved by swappiing your mid and top laners, however I think I've only had a single game in the hundreds I've played where the enemy team swapped lanes because they couldn't handle their opponent who was hard countering them.

CherysseNov 24, 201519 votes

Because people love their plays on the LCS, I mean they are just so fun to watch, everybody loves them, haven't you seen Hunger Games 1? you know how they had to become popular and loved by the crowds to survive? well, that is what a champion has to do in LOL to avoid getting nerfed.... F+ck the casual players. Rito's Logic [zombie-brand-mindblown]

MartyrofsandNov 24, 201513 votes

Because he was made by CertaintlyT and for some idiotic reason Riot refuses to actually fix the abominations he released resulting in either a set of insanely overpowered champions or horribly weak pieces of trash, all of which are miserable to play against.

Prospector PeteNov 24, 201510 votes

There's also Riven

The Sword SaintNov 24, 201544 votes

Riven is not a late game hyper carry. She has a stronger then average early, spikes mid game, and falls back to average late.

hhy5473Nov 25, 20159 votes

Please don't complain about riven right now. She has a 44 percent win rate after preseason patch...

ShitsurenNov 25, 20151 votes

becouse everyone playing yasuo now

Diggy Hole DwarfNov 25, 20151 votes

Because of AD casters items nerfs, don't worry, her kit is still strong as f....

ShitsurenNov 26, 20151 votes

yes her kit is still very strong, but i'd say if you'd take away her stun she'd be more balanced

PennsNov 24, 20158 votes

Why can Jax Lucian Vayne Tristana and some others too tho?

SirsirNov 25, 201530 votes

Jax Vayne and Tristana aren't lane bullies, they can get fed off of underskilled opponents but that doesn't make them bullies.

And Lucian isn't a hypercarry. He doesn't fall into utter trash but his late game is nothing special

MartyrofsandNov 25, 20156 votes

Jax can be depending on the match-up. Put him against someone like Ryze/Gnar/Liss who really wants to stay at range most of the early game and Jax can wreck them pretty well by just jumping on them with his stun.

But against someone like Darius/Fiora/etc he gonna get wrecked without some early game help.

S H A Y C 0Nov 25, 20153 votes

feel free to freeze the wave by your tower and stall laning phase out untill you have enough for a rageblade...if you dont give up a kill before that, you win league...not just lane..the whole god damn game, community, company, lore and ranked season altogether...matchup is irrelevant.

Small TiddiesNov 26, 20152 votes

Unless they have garen. Then you're fucked. As a Jax main I hate Garen and Darius more than anything.

MunchCrunchLunchNov 26, 20151 votes

darius isn't a problem after early stage. but garen is always until you get 6 items. i hate garen with passion.

JJI744Nov 25, 201531 votes

Eh, to be fair, Trist is a bit of a lane-bully, she just has a terrible mid-game.

SpecterVonBarenNov 25, 20151 votes

But she's not a lane bully. She can do a good all in with the right support but she doesn't have any tools for bullying people.

DalaninNov 25, 20155 votes

i poke with e a shit ton, and when they're low enough if just dunk them

sir d wreckNov 25, 20153 votes

Early game with her E+Q and then auto, auto, auto is pretty good though.

doombotMECHANov 25, 20153 votes

yeah, that's always been the funny thing with trist, she has the strangest power pattern of bursty early, super-strong late but a terrible midgame so that she has to get rolling during the laning phase to make it as short as possible.

XanesNov 25, 20152 votes

That was old Trist, because she had high base damages that didn't scale at all. So she was strong early, dipped in the midgame and came back in the lategame when autoattacks reigned supreme.

New Trist doesn't have the same powercurve.

Small TiddiesNov 26, 20152 votes

LOL. Jax is nothing even close to a lane bully.

My Waifu VanillaNov 26, 20151 votes

After level 6 and he clicks you with Q+W+R for half your health and a pickaxe he's a lane bully.

Small TiddiesNov 26, 20151 votes

He's very much not a lane bully. Jax's weakest point is when he's in lane. Unless you're someone really squishy his damage doesn't kill you very fast. Maybe over 12-14 seconds or if you just let him sit and auto you. Otherwise, you're not gonna die to him before 20 mins.

My Waifu VanillaNov 29, 20151 votes

When Im playing GP (someone with quite a large a mount of health and has scaling mr) with mr and armor runes and a phage and all he has is a pickaxe and his jump plus auto deals at least half my health there's a problem. Yeah, Jax may have SOME bad lane match ups, but the easy ones for him are EXTREMELY easy for him since all he has to do is outstat his opponent or just dodge their AAs. Xin Zhao, who used to do decent against him, now gets rather destroyed since Jax can now also dodge his CC so instead of them both being CC'd when Xin goes in (or Jax goes in) it is now only Xin which leads to every single trade being unfavorable and an unwinable lane for Xin. Same goes for Nasus, since while yeah Nasus should get dumpstered in lane and his Q should have been dodged all the time, Jax hits his absurd power spike 1000 gold earlier than before (due to how cheap rageblade is compared to trinity) and will probably get it before Nasus finishes his FH/Iceborne and simply destroy him any time he THINKS about going for a minion.

Slamurai JackNov 24, 20156 votes

He's more of a early-mid game snowballler that falls off late game as everyone else catches up to him in damage.

CherysseNov 24, 201525 votes

hahahaha catches up to him in damage? dafuk? are you for real?.... try building him properly, absolutely no-one can pass that 50% armor pen cap.

Slamurai JackNov 24, 20157 votes

Compared to his Shiv IE powerspike, Yasuo's late game is a huge step down. You still do more damage than ranged adcs, but the gap is much smaller at 6 items compared to their relative power levels at 2-3 items. Yasuo still does tons of damage late game, but so does everyone else, so his high damage is less relevant. He's nowhere near the late game powerhouse that champs like Cass, Veigar, and Vayne are. Still above average overall, but it's a huge step down from his top tier mid game.

The Sword SaintNov 24, 20158 votes

It's true that as everyone reaches the ability to 100-0 squishies, which person reached that amount of damage first becomes less relevant compared to how safe and reliable that damage is - which is something that ranged or tankier champions have over yasuo as long as they have the damage to kill him.

Earl EulrichNov 25, 20156 votes

though lategame a well placed windwall can block absurd amounts of dmg by denying that 5-6item carry for 3sec(or the stun that would kill your carry)...so it´s more like lee sin where he only falls off lategame if played okish, while a true master of the Champ will still keep scaling.

YumaS2AstralNov 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJmftEEl,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-25T00:54:31.281+0000)

though lategame a well placed windwall can block absurd amounts of dmg by denying that 5-6item carry for 3sec(or the stun that would kill your carry)...so it´s more like lee sin where he only falls off lategame if played okish, while a true master of the Champ will still keep scaling.

On my opinion Yasuo falls off late game only if his team can't support him with the proper setup - that is, knockups and lockdowns. Yasuo can scale really well into the late game, but he is more team dependent than other hypercarries.

My Waifu VanillaNov 26, 20151 votes

The problem with Yas late game is not his damage but the fact that even with the passive shield he is an absurdly squishy melee champion with no way to get into a fight without his ult. If there isn't another knock up engage on his team he had to Q minions or tanks (if they let him) to rack up a knock back to hit the back line. Even if a Sej lands like a 5 man ult it is still very difficult for Yas to follow up on it since if he goes in he will get obliterated by standing in the middle of their team the second they get un-stunned.

VerxintNov 25, 20155 votes

Yasuo actually has some of the lowest damage output among melee carries.

Jax, Fiora, Yi, Xin all put him to shame.

KnoyleNov 25, 201511 votes

His danger isn't from damage though it's still nothing to laugh at. It really comes from his speed, reach and ability to shutdown ranged attackers. And lategame if you aren't a tank stacked full of armor he is a terror.

CherysseNov 25, 20152 votes

true, at least now I can once again use Quinn against him

VerxintNov 25, 20157 votes

None of what you said is wrong. In fact, he gets those things because he has low tier damage for his class.

I just like to remind people that he has relatively low damage compared to other melee carries.

For me there isn't much more satisfying as Yi then to melt a yasuo so fast he doesn't even finish his E

Dar RaksadaNov 25, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Mac is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJmftEEl,comment-id=00000000000200000001,timestamp=2015-11-25T03:35:50.767+0000)

None of what you said is wrong. In fact, he gets those things because he has low tier damage for his class.

I just like to remind people that he has relatively low damage compared to other melee carries.

For me there isn't much more satisfying as Yi then to melt a yasuo so fast he doesn't even finish his E

The thing to note is the 'relatively low damage compared to other melee carries', melee carries have obscene damage, usually in exchange for little to no utility/cc/bulk. Yasuo still has higher (sustained) damage than most champions, while also bringing very strong utility, as well as some cc.

A Miss FortuneNov 24, 201518 votes

Falls off late game? Pretty sure he's the opposite of that with his mobility, utility, and damage. Even if he's behind he pretty much can kill towers with a single wave in just like 5 seconds, blow up ADCs, and we all know how he can solo baron and dragon like It's nothing.

WhatAGeiniusNov 25, 20151 votes

Isn't hyperbole great?

(It's actually not great at all, don't use it)

VerxintNov 25, 20153 votes

But boards runs on hyperbole

"He can do these things and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it because he'll just do this"

Pretty much most balance QQ posts

3TWarriorNov 25, 20153 votes

then there's riot, "we're sorry we made a fun, rarely used champion too viable...we'll nerf him right away and you can go back to wrecking faces and getting screamed at by people throwing their keyboards at a wall"

TurquoiseYoshiNov 25, 20151 votes

To be fair, all but the last one are pretty true.

WhatAGeiniusNov 25, 20151 votes

Yasuo actually isn't terribly great and taking down structures either, comparatively speaking at least.

My Waifu VanillaNov 26, 20151 votes

Especially compared to pre-pre-season when trinity was in the build. He can seige well due to windwall blocking stuff to stop him but he doesn't do much damage to towers since he really doesn't build that much AD or AS compared to an actual ADC.

Red RyuNov 25, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJmftEEl,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-11-24T23:40:07.512+0000)

Falls off late game? Pretty sure he's the opposite of that with his mobility, utility, and damage. Even if he's behind he pretty much can kill towers with a single wave in just like 5 seconds, blow up ADCs, and we all know how he can solo baron and dragon like It's nothing.

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo

His winrate drops as the game goes on to late, so he isn't wrong on that front.

Early mid it when his winrate is the highest.