For example, as Aatrox you never see anyone buy iceborn gauntlets. The cost which is based on everything the item does is therefore based on giving 500 mana among other things. Its lost value to buy it.
However, what if bonus mana on items gave a percent of the bonus as something else on non mana chanmpions?
I feel like this would open up more builds for mana less champions.
Malhammers4 votes....So every champ could build every item? ...No.
Darkinlegend1 votesOkay lets just leave things how they are where some champs sync WAY better with items than other champs.
darkmatchwaldo2 votesThat is uhh...that is...that's the entire point.
Certain champions are supposed to sync way better with certain items than others.
While we're at it why don't we add mana to EVERY item so mana users also have a reason to build non-mana items. I feel like this would open up more build paths to mana using champions.
Darkinlegend1 votesGreat than how about items that give say, an increase on BONUS attack speed so that only certain champions like Aatrox will benefit from due to his bonus attack speed passive and ult? Making the item useless for other players?
Darkinlegend1 votesYou realize that the way Riot itemizes homogenizes the champions, right? A sated ,rageblader no matter who it is is a menance. The tank items do bonus damage and give moment, negating the trade off of being tanky...they still do enough damage and move plenty fast. Too many items too too much and are too crazy.
darkmatchwaldo1 votesNot really true. A sated rageblade 
isn't nearly as devastating as a sated rageblade 
.
Darkinlegend1 votesNot early as devastating, but still devastating nonetheless.
darkmatchwaldo1 votesAny champion can be devastating it doesn't really matter what they build.
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Hell a champion can be devastating with NO item if they use their ult correctly. Ults from these champions can win you the game even if they had no items based on their sheer utility.
Devastating a team isn't about the items or builds on certain champions, it's about the champions kit and utilizing that kit to it's full potential. Jax's kit just happens to synergize well with 
, if those items were removed from the game entirely he would still find ways to destroy teams. It would just be with a different build.
cuddlykitten41 votesyour
Quepha2 votesOkay lets just leave things how they are where some champs sync WAY better with items than other champs.
Exactly. Different champions are supposed to work differently with different items because those different champions and items are DIFFERENT.
You now understand the point of a strategic game filled with player choices.
Also, mana is priced so efficiently on the items it appears on that it can still be a good buy for manaless champions. There's a Diamond Shen main who recommends IBG or Frozen Heart on Shen because the power of the cdr and passives on him completely make up for the mana he doesn't care about, there have been several points in this game where champs like Garen would build Triforce despite their lack of mana (or AP scalings back when Triforce had AP on it). If you're playing a Mundo and the enemy has a couple auto attackers on their team, then Frozen Heart is your best buy, the mana has nothing to do with how powerful that passive is.
You say no one builds IBG on Aatrox because of his lack of mana pool, but the real reasons they don't do it are because Aatrox doesn't have a lot of short cooldown abilities to proc it repeatedly, both of his abilities are already packaged with AoE slows that just overwrite the one from IBG, and as an on-hit champion the cdr doesn't benefit his damage very much while he's looking for raw AD or attack speed..
Darkinlegend1 votesWow. You still don't get it. The way items fit some champions so perfectly makes such champions inherently stronger than other champs who don't have items that fit so perfectly. Shyvana, voli...for example very high win rates...very tanky, and they benefit from all the awesome tanky items while still doing tons of damage. They don't need to worry about attack speed and damage and health and armor and CDR. They only need to focus on a couple of those and the rest takes care of itself.
Not so with aatrox. He has long cool downs, CDR would be nice, but he needs attack speed for his w but that scales off AD, the heal and the bonus damage, but he also is squishy so he need to be tanky.....he is pulled in too many directions. Where as garen, darius, shyv, voli, mundo etc are not pulled in as many directions.
Get it yet?
Quepha1 votesWow. You still don't get it. The way items fit some champions so perfectly makes such champions inherently stronger than other champs who don't have items that fit so perfectly. Shyvana, voli...for example very high win rates...very tanky, and they benefit from all the awesome tanky items while still doing tons of damage. They don't need to worry about attack speed and damage and health and armor and CDR. They only need to focus on a couple of those and the rest takes care of itself.
Not so with aatrox. He has long cool downs, CDR would be nice, but he needs attack speed for his w but that scales off AD, the heal and the bonus damage, but he also is squishy so he need to be tanky.....he is pulled in too many directions. Where as garen, darius, shyv, voli, mundo etc are not pulled in as many directions.
Get it yet?
Is that why Master Yi has such a high winrate with Guinsoo's Rageblade? Because he synergizes perfectly with an item that's 50% AP when he gains zero damage from AP?
Aatrox is weak because he has a poorly designed diving fighter kit that was no fun to play against. Riot nerfed him to an appropriate power level for the fun he provides to the game and left him to rot in the bin next to Irelia, a champion with an almost identical kit.
Darkinlegend1 votesHaha are you seriously trying to use an exception to disprove the rule?
Nice try but my point still stands...and is generally true.
Anraton3 votessorry but ... why would you buy 
on 
?
Darkinlegend1 votesIf that item gave some other bonus besides mana, it might be useful against champions like quinn at top who are quite oppressive. The armor and increase cool down help his survivablity and the spell blade gives at least some damage after a diver or a poke. Obviously you wouldn't buy it as things stands.
Anraton1 voteshm .. Aatrox has q with 12 sec base cd @skill level 5 .. w doesn't proc spellblade, e has 8 sec base cd @skill level 5 ... so... you can't really use the spellblade effective at all ... so .. why not try dead mans instead? or randuins? Or .. if you want it because of the cdr .. take a frozen heart ... (ok still mana within but may more usefull in my oppion)
Darkinlegend1 votesGood lord
1)I have never built a IBG on AA 2) I am not advocating anyone do so 3)understand the context before you post your advice.
Anraton1 votesWhat i want to say ... even if ther was the mana scaling as you suggest ..what makes the item strong is pretty much lost
cuddlykitten41 votesyou can't stop me
Mandang02 votesRiot does seem to bend backwards for mana champs in their itemization offerings.
Just look at RoA and Rylai's - the best health+AP item for mana-using and manaless champs: RoA has 100 more health and 20 more AP than Rylai's for 200 less gold. And, oh yea, it just so happens to effectively make that champion manaless.
Now, in a vacuum, this is where you say "but what about Rylai's slow?" However, when you look at the difference between your typical manaless and mana-using kit, you'll realize manaless champs are usually given much less utility (read: hard CC) than their mana-using alternatives. So, once each type of champ finishes building their AP+Health item, they're both effectively manaless, but the mana user has hard CC while the manaless champ usually has only slows.
Lastly, the same is true of the other itemization in the game: manaless champs' greatest strength (the ability to skip a stat in their itemization) is neutered by a lack of decent manaless items. Want CDR? You're either building full defense (kindle items) or you have to spend on mana/mana regen (glacial/idol). Want a meaningful lifesteal analogue? Too bad, spell vamp currently sucks unless you're Vlad. Just want sheer AP? The highest AP items are mana items too.
PS: Yea, this is discussing AP champs, but IBG and Muramana are the same argument for AD champs.
Darkinlegend2 votesFinally an intelligent response. Thank you.
cuddlykitten41 votesI'm