I love how Meddler keeps saying Aatrox is in a good place

Darkinlegend·Apr 22, 2016·19 votes·1,415 views

Based on what Meddler? Win rate? What do those numbers have to do with anything. Seriously, Lee Sin and Veiger have lower win rates....so does that mean they are in a bad place? No. They are picked more often than Aatrox, and both bring unique strengths---they do what they do well. They are clearly defined champions.

Aatrox is picked less because more players find him boring and because there is very little does that other champions can't do better.

Aatrox doesn't Aatrox well the same way Veigar does Veigar. Or the same with Lee Sin.

Do you get it? You should be embarrassed that I have to explain this to you Meddler.

So when you say Aatrox is in a good place, what exactly do you mean?

37 Comments

Kiyodai AkamichiApr 22, 201611 votes

I think meddler specifically stated they're going to be looking at Aaatrox when they do the "vanguard" update (diving fighters). It's just that, for now, there are champions that need the attention more. It's not that aatrox is in a great spot, it's that he's in a good enough spot that it's not worth re-prioritizing the work they already have in place.

SlythionApr 22, 20164 votes

when/where did he say Aatrox was in a good place?

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

when/where did he say Aatrox was in a good place?

Around 6 months ago on one of my posts on my other account, and recently on another general post where someone got him to respond and he said they have no plans to do anything with aatrox because they think he is in a good place

SlythionApr 22, 20163 votes

Do you have the links to the recent post? Or the old one if possible. I thought I remembered him saying awhile ago that while Aatrox was not their top-priority, he recognized that balancing him was difficult and that changes would be needed.

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Do you have the links to the recent post? Or the old one if possible. I thought I remembered him saying awhile ago that while Aatrox was not their top-priority, he recognized that balancing him was difficult and that changes would be needed.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/pxnw26fN-meddler-where-are-u-guys-gonna-post-specifics-about-upcoming-mage-dragon-blue-red-changes?show=flat&comment=0001

SlythionApr 22, 20161 votes

Well that's...disappointing. I'm actually pretty sad to hear that they will continue to ignore Aatrox :/

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well that's...disappointing. I'm actually pretty sad to hear that they will continue to ignore Aatrox :/

Well they have their hands full undoing lots of mistakes, like having to nerf poppy for example, after the changes (obviously) made her way to strong. Everyone knew it but Riot apparently---3 months later they are like yeahhhh shes too strong. These clowns at Riot, I swear.

SlythionApr 22, 20161 votes

But like...Aatrox has been in this position for over a year now. At some point they need to recognize it's been too long and they need to address the issue, it feels like they're dragging their heels around the topic. Aatrox has so much potential in everything he does, even his own lore, but at the same time everything about Aatrox feels underwhelming like all the potential was wasted. It's a shame and eventually Riot needs to address it

QuephaApr 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/pxnw26fN-meddler-where-are-u-guys-gonna-post-specifics-about-upcoming-mage-dragon-blue-red-changes?show=flat&comment=0001

He very clearly stated that Aatrox was performing to expectations. He was talking about power level and Aatrox is in an OK state. Your arguments about his satisfaction or his niche are not complaints that can be solved with simple balance changes but instead require a rework to some degree, at the very least a minor kit rework from a class update.

All divers have this problem and there's no reason Aatrox requires more urgent attention over Irelia, Xin Zhao, Nocturne, Diana, Ekko, Vi, Rengar, Wukong, and probably a few other diver and diver-hybrids that I forgot about.

Every single one of them does the same thing: dive in and deal damage while taking damage; not as much damage or mobility as an assassin, not as tanky as a tank, just kindof in the middle with no clear reason when you'd want them over an assassin or a tank.

There are also no clear niches for the champs within that subclass so when one of them is overtuned relative to the others (Ekko) then every other champ in the class just feels like worthless garbage. And when the "OP" champion is nerfed, then the next diver in line who deals 1% more damage and is 1% tankier than the others will feel like the completely busted, better version of everyone else in the pile.

Divers need a class update as a whole and your best bet is to look for one of those to see how Aatrox can be distinguished from other divers and vice versa.

DarkinlegendApr 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

He very clearly stated that Aatrox was performing to expectations. He was talking about power level and Aatrox is in an OK state. Your arguments about his satisfaction or his niche are not complaints that can be solved with simple balance changes but instead require a rework to some degree, at the very least a minor kit rework from a class update.

All divers have this problem and there's no reason Aatrox requires more urgent attention over Irelia, Xin Zhao, Nocturne, Diana, Ekko, Vi, Rengar, Wukong, and probably a few other diver and diver-hybrids that I forgot about.

Every single one of them does the same thing: dive in and deal damage while taking damage; not as much damage or mobility as an assassin, not as tanky as a tank, just kindof in the middle with no clear reason when you'd want them over an assassin or a tank.

There are also no clear niches for the champs within that subclass so when one of them is overtuned relative to the others (Ekko) then every other champ in the class just feels like worthless garbage. And when the "OP" champion is nerfed, then the next diver in line who deals 1% more damage and is 1% tankier than the others will feel like the completely busted, better version of everyone else in the pile.

Divers need a class update as a whole and your best bet is to look for one of those to see how Aatrox can be distinguished from other divers and vice versa.

I wish people like you would read the god damn post and try to understand it before responding with a god damn novel.

I am questioning meddlers and Riots entire definition of what it means for a champion to be in a good state. I never once stated that simply balance changes was all he needed.

And furthermore, he is no tin the same state as other dive champions. For example Wukong can initiate a fight with his ult and then dive out after if he wants. If aatrox dives to ult, he has no way to leave the fight.

And even furthermore, it really feels like Riot had no formula in place for what a balanced game is.

Basically, they are like someone cooking a meal and when they discover it needs salt, they add too much...then they need to add something else to mask the salt, and they add too much of that, then they add more food, and add too much so now you can't taste the salt again....so they add more salt again.

They are just floundering idiots who are amateur game makers. I have no respect for them anymore.

Surr20plzApr 22, 20163 votes

Work on your grammar before trying to call someone out you foreign savage.

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Work on your grammar before trying to call someone out you foreign savage.

Get a life dude. Go knit pick something else and don't ever comment on my posts again please.

Surr20plzApr 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Get a life dude. Go knit pick something else and don't ever comment on my posts again please.

You invite me to comment on your garbage post by putting it in a public forum.

You don't know anything about game design and live with your parents. How are you gonna stop me?

NO RE :D

ZarvanisApr 22, 20161 votes

You clearly want attention, and I have nothing better to do right now, so I guess I'll give you some.

How's it going, kid? What's Middle School like these days? Or Elementary School, if I've overestimated your age.

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You invite me to comment on your garbage post by putting it in a public forum.

You don't know anything about game design and live with your parents. How are you gonna stop me?

GG

NO RE :D

Cool story bro

SettDownShutUpApr 22, 20163 votes

Aatrox is shit. And in his current state he isn't allowed to be good.

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox is shit. And in his current state he can't allowed to be good.

Yup, tell that to Meddler. He thinks Aatrox is "in a good place"

Lady HammerlockApr 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yup, tell that to Meddler. He thinks Aatrox is "in a good place"

In a good place Health balance wise I MEAN NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY WANTS TO SEE AATROX EVERY GAME i see that he is quite weak in every aspect,but seriously if i saw aatrox every game,he'd be worse then seeing a lee sin or zed every game There isn't much else you can do against him but simply kite(properly),but he odes face one EXTREMELY big issue that makes meddler totally wrong

A champion isn't in a good spot,when for it to even work properly,they'd have to be fed af

basically feast or udder famine

WinBoatApr 22, 20162 votes

Aastrox is annoying. I hope he is never buffed. His passive is BS, his attack speed gets insane late game. He's like a Kayle sorta

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Best EV3R NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zemhw77m,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-04-22T05:16:23.741+0000)

Aastrox is annoying. I hope he is never buffed. His passive is BS, his attack speed gets insane late game. He's like a Kayle sorta

Aatrox is so easy to shut down. His passive is only there when his bloodwell is full and when he revives he has no blood in the well so he has no bonus attack speed.

CrettApr 22, 20161 votes

They in the same breath speaking on the subject mentioned that they'd like to revisit him (on a different post). Keep in mind that rioters (and people in general) might not really want to reply to such a confrontational post! You should try to just have a chill discussion rather than a Heated Argument

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They in the same breath speaking on the subject mentioned that they'd like to revisit him (on a different post). Keep in mind that rioters (and people in general) might not really want to reply to such a confrontational post! You should try to just have a chill discussion rather than a Heated Argument

I have tried for a year straight on my other account being polite.

hOrnnApr 22, 20161 votes

Aatrox is good, bad players build situational items, botrk on him and fail, try crit, try bt, w ad scale rly good.

MLDzXnRRRApr 22, 20161 votes

Devourer + tanky items is the most annoying thing in the game...

RaerodrayneApr 22, 20161 votes

Out of like 50+ people on my friends list at least, (then 30+ on my brothers). My brother is the only Aatrox player we even know. Though he agrees that Aatrox shouldn't be ignored as much as he should. But he's happy with Aatrox mostly because it's his favorite top/jg to go to, and he has a really high win rate on him. He is pretty strong if he can keep up or get ahead of the other players. He can also solo Baron/Dragon with a few items. So he is pretty good even with all these meta shifts, but it'd be nice to see them do something to him. item 3070 Aatrox

Imperial JapanApr 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Based on what Meddler? Win rate? What do those numbers have to do with anything. Seriously, Lee Sin and Veiger have lower win rates....so does that mean they are in a bad place? No. They are picked more often than Aatrox, and both bring unique strengths---they do what they do well. They are clearly defined champions.

Aatrox is picked less because more players find him boring and because there is very little does that other champions can't do better.

Aatrox doesn't Aatrox well the same way Veigar does Veigar. Or the same with Lee Sin.

Do you get it? You should be embarrassed that I have to explain this to you Meddler.

So when you say Aatrox is in a good place, what exactly do you mean?

@Unknowntopublic (Plat Aatrox top main)

ToastersaotApr 22, 20161 votes

The problem with Aatrox is that he has infinite manaless sustain (The same reason they reworked Vladimir) that has no cost. He's also pretty darn generic and has several champions that do his job (split pushing) but better Tryndamere Fiora Jax Nasus

So maybe if it's a split push meta and these guys get nerfed he'll be pretty good but right now he's underwhelming.

Maximum MordeApr 22, 20161 votes

He's not in a horrible place right now. Maybe could use a minor, and I mean minor, boost. His winrate is sitting just short of half and his experienced players are at 55% so, I mean, he's pretty close to where he should be.

Aatrox has a design problem, not a power problem. He's very much a "get stat checked" champion, which doesn't lend itself well to a healthy game. He's in the class of Champions where people just pick whichever stat ball is the strongest. Since he's not right now, he gets mostly ignored. He needs a redesign so he's not in that group.

Solidair3Apr 22, 20161 votes

He said aatrox is middle of the pack. Seems fine.

Voluug13Apr 22, 20161 votes

Why people always mispell Veigar's name.

But yeah Aatrox is currently... atroz (awful in spanish, coincidently!).

CoolkippApr 22, 20161 votes

Aatrox is a wierd champ, as a main I actually can't describe to you what he meant without going into detail about all of his quirks.

Basically, Aatrox's kit is fundamentally similar to Riven's. He can build damage while still being able to remain respectively bulky due to his w (riven's e in comparison), while still having the option to trade the healing for damage. This allows him to win matchups against tanks and other fighters alike due to the pressure his w can exert.

Oh yeah, don't listen to the guides telling yo uto max q or e first over w. Aatroxes only real damage comes from his w, so without it you'll do peanuts.

If you can't make him work for you, feel free to ask for tips etc. I spent quite a while figuring out matchups and situational builds through experience that keep aatrox being a threat throughout the game.

Shrek LuigiApr 22, 20161 votes

I'm not fond of Aatrox because he's a bit of a one-trick pony--he's got a bit of mobility/self-peeling on him but, aside from that, his kit is super-centric on all-ins and outsustaining your opponent in prolonged trades. Once the grace-period in which he's able to beat just about any beefy fighter throughout the first half of the game ends, his role is greatly diminished since prolonged fights as a frail fighter aren't generally an option (too many people who could potentially focus you down!).

Some champions are destined to be nothing more than a good counterpick in specific matchups. Aatrox shines against a few toplaners who would otherwise be considered high-tier picks, but has so many drawbacks that it's often not worth the risk to pick him over someone else. Same deal with Urgot or Yorick--it would be nice to see Riot breathe life into these fellas by redistributing power off of the trademark aspects of their kit and pumping some more flexibility into them.

DarkinlegendApr 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shrek Luigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zemhw77m,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-04-22T20:07:52.042+0000)

I'm not fond of Aatrox because he's a bit of a one-trick pony--he's got a bit of mobility/self-peeling on him but, aside from that, his kit is super-centric on all-ins and outsustaining your opponent in prolonged trades. Once the grace-period in which he's able to beat just about any beefy fighter throughout the first half of the game ends, his role is greatly diminished since prolonged fights as a frail fighter aren't generally an option (too many people who could potentially focus you down!).

Some champions are destined to be nothing more than a good counterpick in specific matchups. Aatrox shines against a few toplaners who would otherwise be considered high-tier picks, but has so many drawbacks that it's often not worth the risk to pick him over someone else. Same deal with Urgot or Yorick--it would be nice to see Riot breathe life into these fellas by redistributing power off of the trademark aspects of their kit and pumping some more flexibility into them.

Except Riven has Way more mobility (stupid mobility in fact) and TWO hard CCs, and her AOE stun is MUCH easier to land then Aatrox's dive, and can CC and entire team.

Shrek LuigiApr 23, 20161 votes

I'd agree that Riven is probably a straight-up better champion overall but Aatrox's strengths are greatly understated. Aatrox is one of those Champs that stands a very good chance against Riven in lane, for example, because he can just rely on his base values to keep him healthy while simultaneously building-to-counter whoever he's up against--and easily draft that early buy into a workable build for the mid game. He's not the worst toplaner out there (against snowbally melee Champs in particular) because he can easily deny his opponent those early kills that would otherwise cause them to go Incredible Hulk on your team when the lanephase ends, and the free revive is icing on the cake as far as ensuring that happens.

Some people swear by him as a jungler too but I'm not fond of it. :/

DarkinlegendApr 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shrek Luigi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zemhw77m,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2016-04-23T13:52:37.617+0000)

I'd agree that Riven is probably a straight-up better champion overall but Aatrox's strengths are greatly understated. Aatrox is one of those Champs that stands a very good chance against Riven in lane, for example, because he can just rely on his base values to keep him healthy while simultaneously building-to-counter whoever he's up against--and easily draft that early buy into a workable build for the mid game. He's not the worst toplaner out there (against snowbally melee Champs in particular) because he can easily deny his opponent those early kills that would otherwise cause them to go Incredible Hulk on your team when the lanephase ends, and the free revive is icing on the cake as far as ensuring that happens.

Some people swear by him as a jungler too but I'm not fond of it. :/

Aatrox is great in lane. That is not his issue. Riven is trash against him in lane. But Rivens team fight is waaaaay stronger