@Riot, I know you don't owe us anything

Malicious Metal·Oct 18, 2015·88 votes·3,835 views

But please, can we maybe get a glimpse into what you want to do with Mordekaiser?

The last few months were filled with futile attempts from Morde mains to influence your perception of the Master of Metal and trying to advocate certain actions that could be taken to improve his Solo laning, his lack of satisfying gameplay experiences and now even his themes and title.

I know we're just your customers, that we're few in numbers, that our champion doesn't exactly seem to fit into the world of flashy plays and mobility. Yet the lack of any stance on your part is truly disheartening. I get it that the boards have been festering with hate and spite, even more so since the title change hit the PBE, but this contempt is even further increased by the sheer lack of Red responses.

We may be rude sometimes, not all of us see eye to eye with each other, we've all got a bone to pick with you after what had transpired but the sound of silence just gives us the feeling that you don't even care. Not about Morde, not about us Mordekaiser fans, not about the community uproar and so on. We whine, we bitch, we're complaining, some of us try to spark meaningful discussions only for them to drown in the sea of hate and bashing of a certain rioter.

We're both at fault here and if you continue this trend this fiasco is going to leave a nasty scar.

Some might say we won't be able to handle it if you were to lay your plans bare and that we'd still be carrying on with our complaining and general lack of respect towards Riot as it may seem. But this shouldn't be the case. Knowing is always better than not knowing. It helps us not to be outraged by what the future holds in store for Morde as was shown by the sudden title change. It shows us that Morde's still on your mind and you're on the ball. It shows us you CARE.

If there's one thing I'd nominate as the worst part about Morde's rework it's going to be the lack of Rioters engaging in discussions about Morde. Yes. the PBE boards were flooding with anger and all the kinds of negative emotions but don't think staying quiet will help at all. On the contrary, it makes you look as if you don't care at all and try to avoid the subject like the plague.

Just this once, one red name popping up in a Morde thread, three words would be enough. "We do care"

78 Comments

SEKAIOct 18, 201520 votes

It's so bad even the ones who don't even care about him or acknowledging his existence at all are now also on the bandwagon, it should be a very clear sign saying "you dun goofed rito".

HayRossOct 18, 20153 votes

You described my take on him exactly. All I knew about pre rework Mordekaiser was:

He was the tin man from Wizard of Oz
He had that one spell the hit you in the crotch with maces coming out of the ground

And that's it, and I can still agree that he's broken as shit

otakoteepOct 18, 20155 votes

he was a momentum kind of character. so long as he could sustain his passive with damage to enemies, he was extremely hard to take down.

but before the Q was kind of the weird mix of target choice. it did maybe 150% extra if the target was alone, but it would just spread to 3 closest for same added damage.
his W was a single target buff with AoE damage. good for poke but when put on minions but potions out sustained it.
E was as you said, crotch shot
R was the same minus dragon effect

DecritOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

he was a momentum kind of character. so long as he could sustain his passive with damage to enemies, he was extremely hard to take down.

but before the Q was kind of the weird mix of target choice. it did maybe 150% extra if the target was alone, but it would just spread to 3 closest for same added damage.

his W was a single target buff with AoE damage. good for poke but when put on minions but potions out sustained it.

E was as you said, crotch shot

R was the same minus dragon effect

Q had a 33% damage increase when the enemy was alone, that was sightly more powerful than the istant conic aoe W could target an ally/minions and was almost meaningless for poke, since the damage it did is not comparable to what it does today and even stopping to attack while chasing an enemy would have been enough to avoid ticks of damage. It was mostly used for a little armor/mres buff, to keep the shield up by damaging minions and for the little Mspeed buff E and R are as you say.

chipi99Oct 18, 20151 votes

Consequences will never be the same!

manbearswineOct 18, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAXMPYm9,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-18T09:04:16.575+0000)

But please, can we maybe get a glimpse into what you want to do with Mordekaiser?

Well considering their reply on sejuani,I'm guessing "he had his time in the spotlight and now can be nerfed to shit and left to rot".

ButthurtOct 18, 20156 votes

I'm sure I'm going to be downvoted but I actually have faith in Riot with Morde. Of course they really shouldn't have put this rework in right before worlds (yay 99% p/b rate) but I'm curious on to what they're going to do. A lot of people don't understand that Morde is more than likely going to get a sort of relaunch. Not Sion level, but more so Trundle or Karma. I have high hopes for his eventual full VU since I absolutely love all the things Riot has put out from the Shadow Isles.

Morde went from a mysterious suit of armor from Zaun to a mysterious suit of armor from Shadow Isles. Not really that interesting thematically.

Though Riot has been pretty flip floppy in terms of lore (The Bilgewater event was amazing, but the Shurima one was absolutely terrible). I'm holding my breath for this one, I think Riot will eventually put Morde in a decent spot.

Just give them until next season, right now they're extremely busy with worlds. Kicking and screaming about how you're not getting attention won't necessarily help. Plus it's oddly hilarious that suddenly everyone cares so much about Morde when he's actually decent, pre-rework he was very unpopular, though had a balanced winrate. Like how Karma was the least popular champion for some time, but when she was finally reworked everyone hated it and were suddenly ex-Karma mains.

Yes Mordes lines and abilities are charming + funny, but I'd honestly rather have him be more serious. Vlad has the same problem, half of his lines are really bad puns and really doesn't fit the character at all. Morde is supposed to be feared, he is supposed to have control over the dead, mercilessly slaughtering those who oppose him and forcing them to fight for him. When he breaks the fourth wall and says "You only have to click once, fool" just seems to break the theme and character of him.

These people saying that Mordes theme is metal are absolutely hilarious, yes Riot has been very inconsistent with Mordes theme but metal? I mean really? That's like saying Aatrox's theme is flying because he kind of has wings. I think Riot chose the right path with steering him away from the metal theme, since they may very well have a metal based champion planned. Though they could have kept Morde on that theme, it's clear that that's not what they want for him. Which is funny, because it is their game. The people who act like Riot is ruining Mordes theme by doing these changes act like they're personally being attacked by Riot by destroying their own intellectual property... You guys didn't make Morde up, Morde is Riots property and they can change him basically however they see fit. Is his identity being slightly changed? Yes. Is it fitting his over all theme and kit better? Yes.

The old Mordes metal themed abilities were just wonky + weird, and not in a good way. His Q was a mace that... split into more maces? His W has remained mostly unchanged, gives sustain now and particles are a bit different though. It's still a weird ability that I think is a bit underwhelming, but eh. His E was another strange one, he summoned a bunch of his maces from the ground? It just made no sense. Then suddenly his ultimate was him attempting to steal the body of his enemy??

His theme was all over the place and Riot decided to focus around his ultimate, which most champions seem to be themed around anyway.

So instead of being a mixed heavily armored weird mace summoning with a kind of metal based and body stealing kit they decided to just go with one thing. It seems that Riot really doesn't like mixed or confusing themes in champion, so these decisions make sense (to me at least).

Do I think his kit is absolutely broken and a nightmare to play against at the moment? Yes, absolutely. His Q and Dragonforce passive are some of the most ridiculous abilities I've ever seen in League. But I have faith that Riot will do something about it. Should they revert the rework? I don't think so, like at all. Should they rework him again? I actually do agree with this, but if they want to keep his theme then they can't really. His problem lies within his ultimate, the win-more style of his ult just makes him a nightmare to balance. Not to mention, like I said, his Q and new ult passive are broken as well.

Would the game be more enjoyable if they reverted the rework? Probably, but then Morde "mains" would go back to bitching about how below average their champion is and how Riot doesn't care about Morde. Riot can't really win in this situation.

Kind of a long rant but.

TL;DR:

Wait until Worlds is over, then bitch about the lack of changes. Riot is pretty busy at the moment and of course they have team members available and their balance team is still live, but just give them some room. I hardly ever defend Riot, but this crying over Morde is just absolutely ridiculous. Please stop making threads, if Riot wanted to respond they could have but clearly they don't have the answers yet. Just wait until the new balance patches start rolling in again to expect a red response.

CasterGilgameshOct 19, 20152 votes

i personally trusting riot since someone has to with all the toxic salt this community is.seriously i'm embarrassed to be a league of legends player since all this community is known for is being toxic cancer.

MordepoolOct 19, 20151 votes

You talk to us about Morde threads like we are still going like yesterday.

We know riot needs time to fix hopefully rework/ relaunch him.

This is our only avenue to exert pressure. We aren't riven mains. We don't get special treatment

I can't respect riot for how they mishandled Mordekaiser he's old and his fanbase while small stretches back far. He deserved more Respect than he got And we all should expect better

S1 Morde Main. Ex Lol player. Peacing out

TransgressorOct 18, 20155 votes

"You don't owe us anything"

...Uhm what?

If me and you didn't play the game, give them our money to buy their shit and whatnot, they wouldn't exist...? Even investors would just back out since there'd be no profit coming out of their investments, and the game along with the company would die out. They owe us EVERYTHING. Not in a self righteous way, but more like, if we, the players, didn't play this game/give them our money, thus making one of the biggest to ever exist, there would be no Riot to afford these policies in the first place.

Kuroi86Oct 18, 20154 votes

They owe us EVERYTHING.

They DO NOT owe us to sit there and be insulted by people for their balance decisions. For their business decisions. They DO NOT owe us to sit around and take death threats and wishes for cancer on them and every member of their families for their design choices.

If the league community were less toxic, I could see being upset at Riots silence so often. The fact is we try to excuse our behavior too often and I wouldn't be surprised if Riot is getting sick and tired of it. They actually try to communicate with the community, a lot of companies can't say that, how much longer they keep it up, I can't say.

TransgressorOct 18, 20153 votes

I'll speak personaly for this responce, simply because the "community's vocal minority that partakes in all sorts of behaviours(including the ones you mentioned)DO NOT express me in any way:

I do not partake in such activities, nor I encourage them, but at the same time I don't give a fuck about them. Not in game-which is irrelevant to our point-but as communications toward Riot go. That is, simply because I, personaly, give no flying fucks about whatever angry memelord teenies have to say. They are just hollow, dumb words by dumb people. Besides, whether we like it or not, wishing cancer to someone UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES GIVES THEM CANCER. Subjectively, it can be a bad thing to say, but it's just that; words, and words can not cause deseases and whatnot. In addition, no matter how fucking hard people circlejerk here on the NA Boards(I can GUARANTEE you no other boards in this game have this hard of circlejerking going on), CertainlyT will keep working for Riot and produce content, Riven will be a shitty champion that's great to play and people have no clue how to play against, LeeSin will be OP, Rengar will be OP, Heimerdinger and Zed will be OP, etc etc etc.

Now that I've clarified that, there's the other side of this fenomenon. Let me give you an example: Digital Extremes, are the developers and publishers of a F2P game called Warframe. Now this game, has achieved RIDICULOUS development and UNPRECEDENTED growth. By that I mean, they started as a crowd funded project with founders, and now they have PC, Xbox1 and PS4, and are standing at the top3 F2P games on Steam. All that in almost 3 years. Imagine that, right? And they, despite their growth and fame, have kept top notch communication, policies and behaviour towards their consumer base. Now don't get me wrong, they are not without flaws, but they've not sunk like Riot has. Proof of concept, their support has personaly replied to me in many instances, both to my requests and dumb jokes on a friendly manner. No automated email trash, with tickets open for weeks on end, no "fake professionalism".

Let me itterate: Communication and policies are where Riot suffers. A WHOLE FUCKING LOT. When their art/music/gameplay production departments are stellar and keep raising the benchmark, their communications team, balance team, policies and public relations are trash. Shit-tier. That, on different terms, affects their face towards the consumer base. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think they owe me in any way other than to keep providing me a F2P game with great gameplay and content. Since I've given them my euros for RP time and again. If I have that, I'm satisfied. BUT, when they keep fucking the game up, and pussy out on their responsibilities towards it, that's when I have my intelligence insulted, and get pissed off. Meaning that, albeit still having fun, you can't just do whatever the fuck you want and expect no consiquences. They keep making bad decisions one after another. And they turn their backs to the backlash, and then throw their cookie-cutter hypocritical apologetic shit towards us(they've done it 4 times already lol, and it worked EVERY time!). We're not all edgy memelord teenies, some of us are mature enough to demand some respect. +check out Montechristo's video on sandbox mode and Riot's policy+

With my train of thought, some feedback or direct correlation with their decisions and playerbase is to be expected. Especially when "a changed something" has such a massive impact on the game, since all we play is summoners rift. It's not like, we play lets say an RPG, and they change the color of an arrow set. They change an item, suddenly the balance of this game changes. People got angry at the brick wall they raised, Riot sends Repertoir to communicate with the boards for a couple of weeks, boards get happy and the angst dies out; "bless Repertoir" they say. Where the fuck is he now? His job was done, the frustration died out, and they can go back to erecting their wall at peace. When they seal us out, they'll send a shitty apology.

What could've been done? "We're revamping the lore, expect good stuff" -they remove summoners, the IoW, thus the lore has no fundations- -shit hits the fan, HARD- -they keep releasing shitty lore, reducing the existing one, changing/removing pre-established identities- -lore revamp has been going on for years- "Uhm, sorry guys, apparently we met some pretty big unforseen obstacles on the way which set us back(I shit you not, for this to reach us, booths and panels had to be filmed)" -still, nobody knows what this game is about- -let's release Bilgewater lore!-.

What should've been done? "We'll revamp the lore""Ugh, it appears we've had a series of unfortunate events, we'll keep you posted""We're sad to announce we've hit some pretty big obstacles with the lore, and we've resulted in a bad state, but we'll do our best to correct this issue, keep you guys updated on our plans and progress""Yes, do not worry, we won't be fucking any pre-established champion lore when the game does not practicaly exist in our world because of the obstacles we stumbled on".

To FINALLY conclude, they are really at fault here, for they frustrated, dissapointed, and insulted those who care. Fuck the edgy memelords, but why do I have to be disrespected like that? Their RP purchase systems work perfectly fine, they've never had issues taking my money. shouldn't I expect a proper Tribunal and not fucking stupid automated shit from a bot, and for trolls to be actually banned?

Sorry for the wall of text :(

MordepoolOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'll speak personaly for this responce, simply because the "community's vocal minority that partakes in all sorts of behaviours(including the ones you mentioned)DO NOT express me in any way:

I do not partake in such activities, nor I encourage them, but at the same time I don't give a fuck about them. Not in game-which is irrelevant to our point-but as communications toward Riot go. That is, simply because I, personaly, give no flying fucks about whatever angry memelord teenies have to say. They are just hollow, dumb words by dumb people. Besides, whether we like it or not, wishing cancer to someone UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES GIVES THEM CANCER. Subjectively, it can be a bad thing to say, but it's just that; words, and words can not cause deseases and whatnot. In addition, no matter how fucking hard people circlejerk here on the NA Boards(I can GUARANTEE you no other boards in this game have this hard of circlejerking going on), CertainlyT will keep working for Riot and produce content, Riven will be a shitty champion that's great to play and people have no clue how to play against, LeeSin will be OP, Rengar will be OP, Heimerdinger and Zed will be OP, etc etc etc.

Now that I've clarified that, there's the other side of this fenomenon. Let me give you an example: Digital Extremes, are the developers and publishers of a F2P game called Warframe. Now this game, has achieved RIDICULOUS development and UNPRECEDENTED growth. By that I mean, they started as a crowd funded project with founders, and now they have PC, Xbox1 and PS4, and are standing at the top3 F2P games on Steam. All that in almost 3 years. Imagine that, right? And they, despite their growth and fame, have kept top notch communication, policies and behaviour towards their consumer base. Now don't get me wrong, they are not without flaws, but they've not sunk like Riot has. Proof of concept, their support has personaly replied to me in many instances, both to my requests and dumb jokes on a friendly manner. No automated email trash, with tickets open for weeks on end, no "fake professionalism".

Let me itterate: Communication and policies are where Riot suffers. A WHOLE FUCKING LOT. When their art/music/gameplay production departments are stellar and keep raising the benchmark, their communications team, balance team, policies and public relations are trash. Shit-tier. That, on different terms, affects their face towards the consumer base. Now, don't get me wrong. I don't think they owe me in any way other than to keep providing me a F2P game with great gameplay and content. Since I've given them my euros for RP time and again. If I have that, I'm satisfied. BUT, when they keep fucking the game up, and pussy out on their responsibilities towards it, that's when I have my intelligence insulted, and get pissed off. Meaning that, albeit still having fun, you can't just do whatever the fuck you want and expect no consiquences. They keep making bad decisions one after another. And they turn their backs to the backlash, and then throw their cookie-cutter hypocritical apologetic shit towards us(they've done it 4 times already lol, and it worked EVERY time!). We're not all edgy memelord teenies, some of us are mature enough to demand some respect. +check out Montechristo's video on sandbox mode and Riot's policy+

With my train of thought, some feedback or direct correlation with their decisions and playerbase is to be expected. Especially when "a changed something" has such a massive impact on the game, since all we play is summoners rift. It's not like, we play lets say an RPG, and they change the color of an arrow set. They change an item, suddenly the balance of this game changes. People got angry at the brick wall they raised, Riot sends Repertoir to communicate with the boards for a couple of weeks, boards get happy and the angst dies out; "bless Repertoir" they say. Where the fuck is he now? His job was done, the frustration died out, and they can go back to erecting their wall at peace. When they seal us out, they'll send a shitty apology.

What could've been done? "We're revamping the lore, expect good stuff" -they remove summoners, the IoW, thus the lore has no fundations- -shit hits the fan, HARD- -they keep releasing shitty lore, reducing the existing one, changing/removing pre-established identities- -lore revamp has been going on for years- "Uhm, sorry guys, apparently we met some pretty big unforseen obstacles on the way which set us back(I shit you not, for this to reach us, booths and panels had to be filmed)" -still, nobody knows what this game is about- -let's release Bilgewater lore!-.

What should've been done? "We'll revamp the lore""Ugh, it appears we've had a series of unfortunate events, we'll keep you posted""We're sad to announce we've hit some pretty big obstacles with the lore, and we've resulted in a bad state, but we'll do our best to correct this issue, keep you guys updated on our plans and progress""Yes, do not worry, we won't be fucking any pre-established champion lore when the game does not practicaly exist in our world because of the obstacles we stumbled on".

To FINALLY conclude, they are really at fault here, for they frustrated, dissapointed, and insulted those who care. Fuck the edgy memelords, but why do I have to be disrespected like that? Their RP purchase systems work perfectly fine, they've never had issues taking my money. shouldn't I expect a proper Tribunal and not fucking stupid automated shit from a bot, and for trolls to be actually banned?

Sorry for the wall of text :(

Thank you for the wall of text

ZzEslIolZQOct 18, 20155 votes

Speak for yourself. I've spent 500+ on this game they owe me certainlyT's head at min.

Reformed DunniOct 18, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Halo of the Sun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAXMPYm9,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-10-18T13:16:51.481+0000)

Speak for yourself. I've spent 500+ on this game they owe me certainlyT's head at min.

That's why red don't come here anymore, this guy is a prime example

SolaxoOct 18, 20153 votes

"don't owe us anything" uhm we're their customers.

SEKAIOct 18, 201510 votes

{quoted}

"don't owe us anything" uhm we're their customers.

That attitude is probably why most people shudder at the thought of working in customer service hotline.

The key here is mutual respect. People are mad because Riot has shown to only selectively respect a certain portion of the community, and they're just getting real tired of it.

A LiberalOct 18, 20151 votes

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ee/6d/f6/ee6df64ac7cb20d13010b9a0df6169e6.jpg

disregardableOct 18, 20152 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/MAwZOiOv-is-riot-deliberately-ignoring-anything-mordekaiser-related

I searched "Mordekaiser" and "Has Riot Comments". Oh, what's that? The first link is a Rioter posting exactly that they're not avoiding Mordekaiser topics?

Gee. It's almost like people just circlejerk without actually responding to existing topics.

SEKAIOct 18, 201518 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAXMPYm9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-18T09:24:44.846+0000)

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/MAwZOiOv-is-riot-deliberately-ignoring-anything-mordekaiser-related

I searched "Mordekaiser" and "Has Riot Comments". Oh, what's that? The first link is a Rioter posting exactly that they're not avoiding Mordekaiser topics?

Gee. It's almost like people just circlejerk without actually responding to existing topics.

Yeah that thread was made almost a month ago too.

Now things have got even worse with the title change, where is their responses on that? I don't think Riot has answered yet.

Fiora's title revert was done, no big drama. I don't think it's that hard when it comes to Morde.

EDIT: If anything your example only shows how little Riot cares about Morde players because 1 month has passed and nothing has changed and it is only going for the worst.

disregardableOct 18, 20152 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/cKv5fAvE-rest-in-peace-mordekaiser

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/soi9JK9c-im-so-fucking-scared-of-what-certainlyt-has-in-mind-for-caitlyn-oh-my-god?comment=005700010000

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/vWEoZ6X0-balance-team-qa-ask-us-anything?comment=00470000

You're welcome for doing what you should do before you post. I don't really care if you disagree with them (I don't really care about morde at all), I'm just saying claiming that they aren't here is flat out false. Scruffy said in the 2nd link that they're taking Morde in a new direction. If that's what you guys don't want, that sucks, but they're not going to go back on it. They'll talk to you about moving forward. Twice in a row they've asked what you guys want to talk about, twice in a row 0 legtimiate responses.

Burnt Iron KingOct 18, 20157 votes

Very fitting name

Photos of GhostsOct 18, 20151 votes

Dam you beat me to it

SEKAIOct 18, 201514 votes

[{quoted}](name=Very Toxic Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAXMPYm9,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-18T09:41:30.586+0000)

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/cKv5fAvE-rest-in-peace-mordekaiser

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/soi9JK9c-im-so-fucking-scared-of-what-certainlyt-has-in-mind-for-caitlyn-oh-my-god?comment=005700010000

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/vWEoZ6X0-balance-team-qa-ask-us-anything?comment=00470000

You're welcome for doing what you should do before you post. I don't really care if you disagree with them (I don't really care about morde at all), I'm just saying claiming that they aren't here is flat out false. Scruffy said in the 2nd link that they're taking Morde in a new direction. If that's what you guys don't want, that sucks, but they're going to go back on it. They'll talk to you about moving forward.

There is a difference between giving lip service and actually discussing, proposing and negotiating for a better solution. The response of "nah we know it better" is exactly the same as total silence.

Let me give you a classic example, DmC the reboot of Devil May Cry series.

Upon its release it was shatted on really, REALLY hard for "taking the series to a new direction". The main reason being Dante is no longer a punch line cheese on the outside and a complicated emotional person inside but instead changed into a street punk. However after the initial uproar while some are still against the reboot but most has accepted it one way or the other.

Why?

Because the new Dante can be very similar to and just as emotionally capable as the old one on the inside, they just come off differently to people in their self presentation. And also, the new DmC plays really well, for the most part, and is very well received by most critics and gamers alike in terms of visual and mechanical standpoint.

That's why it's a reboot, it changes the direction but never forgot its roots.

However Morde has none of that. The new Morde does not make sense thematically nor mechanically when compare to the old one, now even the name is going to be changed. What kind of reboot is that?

Why not just make it a new champ considering new and old Morde have exactly NOTHING in common outside of their gigantic armour?

Kuroi86Oct 18, 20152 votes

The new Morde does not make sense thematically nor mechanically when compare to the old one, now even the name is going to be changed.

Dude, he got a new Q, a minor rework on his W and a buff to his R and passive. That and a new title suddenly changes his entire them and mechanics? Literally 10% of him was changed, his look, most of his mechanics, heck his attitude when he talks are all the same.

There is a difference between giving lip service and actually discussing, proposing and negotiating for a better solution.

Because 99% of what people were wanting fell into the category of either a revert or simply put Morde back into the state he was in before. Apparently people missed the memo, Riot doesn't consider Morde healthy as a solo laner. As bad as he is in duo, he was worse in solo and Riot decided to do something about it. What did the people want, exactly what Riot was trying to move away from for the time being, solo Morde. I hate it, I absolutely despise having to take Morde duo, but hell, I still recognize the need for the change. And until they can come up with a Soraka level rework for him, this is what we've got to work with.

KaeblenOct 19, 20152 votes

Let me pose a brief argument, and just find out your thoughts on it:

The argument given for why Darius, after his recent rework, did not receive meaningful balance changes was because 'he is banned in so many games we can't gather meaningful data on how to correctly change him'.

Let's assume that that is a valid argument. I think it probably is a valid argument, even if it's slightly annoying.

So, Morde is ALSO banned a lot. A lot more than Darius is in worlds. But if, on the next PBE cycle, there was a full revert on Morde--not one with any intention of going live, but one only on PBE and only for the explicit purpose of data--how much play do you think old Morde would receive, on PBE, during that cycle? Given that it IS PBE, riot could choose a player base that would be interested in him, and create an easy situation in which he would be played often, and use that situation to find exactly which gameplay elements were 'good' and which were 'bad'. Meanwhile, with Morde in his current state there are very few who enjoy him. I rarely see him used, and am not sure I have ever seen new morde used in a healthy way. I'm not really asking for a full revert here, but wouldn't it actually be BENEFICIAL from the data gathering perspective?

Kuroi86Oct 19, 20151 votes

But if, on the next PBE cycle, there was a full revert on Morde--not one with any intention of going live, but one only on PBE and only for the explicit purpose of data--how much play do you think old Morde would receive?

On the PBE with the revert or live with the current kit?

If on the PBE with revert, Morde mains would go nuts. However popular does not equal healthy. And while I don't think Duo Morde is healthy, I will say he's slightly healthier for the game than solo Morde was. I don't like saying it, but when you analyze Mordes kit pre-rework, it says some clear things about him. The rework didn't necessarily fix what was broken, but by putting him in a duo lane, you've got more factors to consider when going against him other than if you out range him or if he's got his item 3145 yet.

KaeblenOct 19, 20151 votes

On the PBE with the revert or live with the current kit?

My question referred to how much play morde would see on pbe, and therefore how much data would be available, if the proposed method was used.

I'm not sure why my question was a difficult one for you to understand (I still edited the quoted part you gave, to clarify it), but I'm still waiting, in case you do attempt to answer my question this time around.

SEKAIOct 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

On the PBE with the revert or live with the current kit?

If on the PBE with revert, Morde mains would go nuts. However popular does not equal healthy. And while I don't think Duo Morde is healthy, I will say he's slightly healthier for the game than solo Morde was. I don't like saying it, but when you analyze Mordes kit pre-rework, it says some clear things about him. The rework didn't necessarily fix what was broken, but by putting him in a duo lane, you've got more factors to consider when going against him other than if you out range him or if he's got his yet.

Morde was never broken. He had only 2 things in his kit.

Potential epic damage. Bad early.
Potential epic sustain. Bad early.

0 CC, mobility or any utility.

How is that broken? That's one of the fairest kit in the entire game if you ask me.

What's broken should be nonsense like 2 different %hp damage in spells, 7 spells, high base stats, extra free stats, epic snowballing, innate sustain, tons of CC, tons of gapclosers etc etc all within the same kit like Lee Sin. Oh wait I guess that's balanced and nope Morde is broken.

Wat.

If there is anything broken, reworked Morde is. Because of his 3rd Q and dragon ghost, he WILL and deserve to be nerfed into Eve tier and yeah that's totally balanced eh? What a joke.

By shoving him into bot they killed the flexibility to go between top and mid he used to enjoy. By shoving him into bot they are literally pushing meta shift right onto our faces. By shoving him into bot where ranged and tank characters thrive, they had to give him blatantly overpowered stats due to his lack of early sustain and any form of utility, because screw logic as out of anyone who could have taken the place it has be Morde there right? Don't even get me started on the Dragon ghost which makes no sense and serves no purpose other than force locking the duo lane bot meta.

How is that more acceptable than his old self, where most people don't even see him anymore and you'd have to be really good at taking risks to perform well with him?

This shiet had only gone pass PBE because of 2 things. One because it's Riot who sets up a testing ground but only test contents with official patches in-game, and two because it's CertainlyT who believes himself to be a LoL Jesus and listens only to his own BS.

Kuroi86Oct 19, 20151 votes

Broken: To put it simply, this class of character cannot be allowed to be strong due to the potential for them to warp the meta. AKA LeeSin Nidalee and why they faced a number of nerfs (Though the recent Lee passive buff screwed the pooch on that one.)

When laning against the old Morde you had two factors to consider. Do I out range him? Does he have item 3145 ? If your answer to the first is no or your answer to the second yes, you won't win trades. If you answer no and yes, then you aren't playing league for the next 20 minutes. Pretty similar problem to Annie

SEKAIOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Broken: To put it simply, this class of character cannot be allowed to be strong due to the potential for them to warp the meta. AKA and why they faced a number of nerfs (Though the recent Lee passive buff screwed the pooch on that one.)

Except Lee is the champ they actively want to keep him within the top meta, the ulti buff only proves that, I mean who is given a buff just because they aren't in the friggin meta for a few weeks out of their entire life time?

When laning against the old Morde you had two factors to consider. Do I out range him? Does he have ? If your answer to the first is no or your answer to the second yes, you won't win trades. If you answer no and yes, then you aren't playing league for the next 20 minutes. Pretty similar problem to

Morde doesn't stun you, he has to work hard to burst you down. Do not put him on the same level as Annie. For a Morde to effectively delete someone 100-0 he would 99% of the time NEED to burn his entire kit as well as Flash and Ignite unless he is already incredibly fed.

For against old Morde in lane you don't stand in minion waves, don't pick farm characters and just rush his face before he reaches 6. Not hard at all I can't see why you'd be struggling with old Morde, he had a very low pick rate for a reason because he was full of weaknesses.

Revolver only helped him to not die from his own spells, it did nothing else, nor would it have win the lane for him.

Kuroi86Oct 19, 20151 votes

Except Lee is the champ they actively want to keep him within the top meta, the ulti buff only proves that, I mean who is given a buff just because they aren't in the friggin meta for a few weeks out of their entire life time?

Try the last month or two of last season and the majority of season five when Cinderhulk was prime. He's been considered a tier two jungler for the past season, some even saying tier three. Also, that ult buff was a joke. It goes against his play style and may see use in maybe 1% of his games. The big thing was the passive buff.

Morde doesn't stun

Sigh come on dude, you know what I meant. When playing against Annie either you out range her and you can win lane or you don't and you auto lose lane. It has nothing to do with CC or burst.

Revolver only helped him to not die from his own spells

No, that is what his passive is for, Revolver healed him on top of his shield and pretty much made him a royal pain in the butt to try and kill unless you were an assassin or had someone coming to gank. Even then, if Morde is lvl 6 and you don't CC lock him, he could still kill one of you even if he falls.

SEKAIOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sigh come on dude, you know what I meant. When playing against Annie either you out range her and you can win lane or you don't and you auto lose lane. It has nothing to do with CC or burst.

No, that is what his passive is for, Revolver healed him on top of his shield and pretty much made him a royal pain in the butt to try and kill unless you were an assassin or had someone coming to gank. Even then, if Morde is lvl 6 and you don't CC lock him, he could still kill one of you even if he falls.

You have no idea about how to play as or against Morde with this single post.

Morde was pretty close to being melee.
Morde had no CC, any utility and sported a weak early means you could just rush his face and kill him again and again.
Morde used to auto push lane because all of his basic spells were AoE, and his base stats weren't impressive enough to reliably last hit with his AA. This was done deliberately to make him counterable and introduce more risk-reward into his already very committing-all-in style of gameplay.
His passive was completely non-existent until he was either very ahead or at least past a couple of levels in.
As a result, all Morde rushed Revolver because it was only there so he wouldn't have a negative sustain. And that was it.
Morde was incredibly weak if he was not fed because all of his spells had mediocre to average scaling, and only real scaler was his passive (R scales on enemies so that doesn't count). They also offer almost no utility besides straight up damage and defenses.
If a Morde wasn't fed, when faced a gank there would only be 3 outcomes. 1 he died. 2 he used Flash. 3 he used Flash and still died.

For all your rant against Morde you're only saying 1 thing: That he was actually capable of doing something.

Being able to 1 shot because he's fed? Not fair. Being able to be very hard to kill because he's fed? Not fair. Being able to kick your arse because you don't know how to deal with him in lane? Not fair. Being able to kill somebody by dumping everything he has onto 1 single target? Not fair.

What the fuk. I'm done.

Kuroi86Oct 20, 20151 votes

Rant? I've been trying to make it clear why this was expected, why it happened. You're the one that's been going on like you're pissed off over a dang game.

For crying out loud you've made it sound like you hate this game with the last few posts of yours.

SEKAIOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Dude, he got a new Q, a minor rework on his W and a buff to his R and passive. That and a new title suddenly changes his entire them and mechanics? Literally 10% of him was changed, his look, most of his mechanics, heck his attitude when he talks are all the same.

You do not build him the same, he does not play the same due to spell changes and reworks, nor do you even level the spell in the order like it was before. 90% of him is changed in fact, the only thing left are his general appearance.

Because 99% of what people were wanting fell into the category of either a revert or simply put Morde back into the state he was in before. Apparently people missed the memo, Riot doesn't consider Morde healthy as a solo laner.

How was he not healthy solely because they think that it's the case? He had a very low pick rate, and an average win rate, nothing shouts "balanced" (I'll refrain from using "UP") more than everyone else in this game. And just because Riot doesn't like it he needs a rework? Where is the objectivity here?

As bad as he is in duo, he was worse in solo and Riot decided to do something about it. What did the people want, exactly what Riot was trying to move away from for the time being, solo Morde. I hate it, I absolutely despise having to take Morde duo, but hell, I still recognize the need for the change.

Morde is meant to solo, that's his entire existence. You just admitted that Riot was simply trashing on all players who have any sort of love towards this guy. If it ain't broken, don't fix it. There is a difference between improving and fixing something, when it's not wanted, any fix is bad unless objectively good, which is NOT the case here at all in any aspect you look at it from, be it economically, artistically or statistically.

And until they can come up with a level rework for him, this is what we've got to work with.

Except Soraka rework is utter bull shiet since again, it gives no shiet about who Soraka actually is just like Morde rework. Sion and Yi rework is what they should strive with.

Kuroi86Oct 19, 20151 votes

You do not build him the same, he does not play the same due to spell changes and reworks, nor do you even level the spell in the order like it was before.

So by your definition building Morde off meta was tantamount to spewing feces in his face...

How was he not healthy solely because they think that it's the case?

This isn't about anyone thinking he's not healthy, he WASN'T. Whether you won or lost lane to the old Morde was based on two factors. Do you out range him and does he have item 3145 . If you didn't or he does, you lost lane. If you didn't and he does, you aren't playing league for the next 20 minutes.

Except Soraka rework is utter bull shiet since again, it gives no shiet about who Soraka actually is just like Morde rework.

WHAT?!? Sorakas rework is one of the best of all of them. It focused on her as a healer and built around that while giving her some pretty damn good poke. Soraka was and is meant to be one of the best healers in the game, she remains that way while trimming off the much needed fat from her kit and giving her aspects that fit her considerably better than before.

SEKAIOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So by your definition building Morde off meta was tantamount to spewing feces in his face...

If a character has nothing in common with their old self before rework besides the character model, voice and what not, then It's not the same character. And that's the case with Morde, they might as well have released the new Morde as a separate champ instead of gutting him down for no reason.

He wasn't picked in pro scenes or anything. He was just like that, gutted and reworked, out of no where.

This isn't about anyone thinking he's not healthy, he WASN'T. Whether you won or lost lane to the old Morde was based on two factors. Do you out range him and does he have . If you didn't or he does, you lost lane. If you didn't and he does, you aren't playing league for the next 20 minutes.

Have you even played as Morde or against Morde before?

Firstly his early used to be piss easy to kill, you literally just walk up into his face and duel to kill him again and again before he reaches lvl 4-5. He is only a trouble when you're playing a farm type character against him considering he was one of the greatest farmer in the entire game.

However that was also his problem, he could not control his farming at all, meaning auto push and be exposed to ganks which he has no ways to escape from.

That's balance in a nutshell. Anyway who says that he is broken clearly has no clue about Morde.

Revolver did not/could not make him a god, it was simply a pain killer to save him from negative sustain in lane even if he receives exactly 0 damage while in it. It was only a problem if you're trying to duel him in the middle of minion wave which is a stupid thing to do against literally any champ anyway.

WHAT?!? Sorakas rework is one of the best of all of them. It focused on her as a healer and built around that while giving her some pretty damn good poke. Soraka was and is meant to be one of the best healers in the game, she remains that way while trimming off the much needed fat from her kit and giving her aspects that fit her considerably better than before.

If you think her kit was better than before then you'd be absolutely wrong. The entire point of her rework was to nerf her because her old kit use to be WAY too good. Her poke was unmatched, her heal was unmatched, what else can you ask from her?

The rework doesn't make her balanced though, as it simply trashes her aside by giving her lite version of her old self, cut all the numbers down and give her unnecessarily burdens and drawbacks which only exist to keep her weak that makes no sense artistically.

Kuroi86Oct 19, 20151 votes

He wasn't picked in pro scenes or anything. He was just like that, gutted and reworked, out of no where.

Wow, I shudder to think you actually might believe that. You need to get out from under whatever shelter you've been hiding in. Morde is on a fairly long list of expected reworks for QUITE a long time. This didn't come out of nowhere, it's been in the works for a while now.

Have you even played as Morde or against Morde before?

He was one of my favorite mid laners besides Veigar . I never said I liked the rework, but I do realize what the issue is with him. And no, denying it won't change things.

If you think her kit was better than before then you'd be absolutely wrong. The entirely point of her rework was to nerf her because her old kit use to be WAY too good.

Again I wonder how sheltered you were. Her kit had been absolutely neutered prior to her rework. She was absolutely broken and warping top lane meta prior to her getting nerfed into the ground. The rework was an attempt to give her a kit that could be balanced without being broken like before, and it WORKED. She is now in a state where she is viable, she can be taken to other lanes, but it will never shine brighter than her support lane. She can now out heal virtually every other champ with an innate heal in the entire game thanks to it's low cool down. And by leveling your heal first and learning how to land your Q, you will have virtually no health sustain issues in lane, just grab you some mana/mana regen and you're golden.

SEKAIOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wow, I shudder to think you actually might believe that. You need to get out from under whatever shelter you've been hiding in. Morde is on a fairly long list of expected reworks for QUITE a long time. This didn't come out of nowhere, it's been in the works for a while now.

Since when? DFG removal?

That isn't exactly long isn't it?

Not to mention, "long list of expected reworks", from who? Some speculation on the forum or youtube? Face it, Morde had nothing going for him until the "compensation" incident.

He was one of my favorite mid laners besides . I never said I liked the rework, but I do realize what the issue is with him. And no, denying it won't change things.

I am only denying because his rework is utter BS.

The new Morde plays nothing like Morde, it's not like Sion where you function differently but achieving the same goal, no Morde now plays and function completely different and with a different focus than he had before. That's not a rework, that's making a new champ that have nothing to do with Morde at all, and should BE released as a new champion, and not be done using his image.

Again I wonder how sheltered you were. Her kit had been absolutely neutered prior to her rework. She was absolutely broken and warping top lane meta prior to her getting nerfed into the ground. The rework was an attempt to give her a kit that could be balanced without being broken like before, and it WORKED. She is now in a state where she is viable, she can be taken to other lanes, but it will never shine brighter than her support lane. She can now out heal virtually every other champ with an innate heal in the entire game thanks to it's low cool down. And by leveling your heal first and learning how to land your Q, you will have virtually no health sustain issues in lane, just grab you some mana/mana regen and you're golden.

That's what I was saying, her kit was only reworked because it was too good, the new kit is NOT better than her old one considering the rework was to nerf her.

However that does not make the rework a success, it's still a mess of a job because with a kit like that she can never be strong. I mean how are you supposed to be impactful when your burden weighs more than what you provide? You don't, and it's not like Soraka is providing much (in terms of scope) to begin with so it only makes it worse.

Easier to balance? Sure. Still broken because it's useless as shiet generally apart from some very specific scenarios? Absolutely. Buying mana doesn't solve all the issues because her kit has 2 spells actively working against her all for the sake of balance and nothing more.

Kuroi86Oct 19, 20151 votes

Since when? DFG removal? That isn't exactly long isn't it?

Try around halfway through last season.

I am only denying because his rework is utter BS.

Won't argue that it's a flop. But given what Riot was attempting, anyone would be skeptical that the player base would accept such a radical change.
To put it simply, Morde is stronger than ever, but due to the changes, Morde players don't want the stronger Morde, they want the broken Morde.

That's what I was saying, her kit was only reworked because it was too good, the new kit is NOT better than her old one considering the rework was to nerf her.

It was utterly broken. Mid and Top Raka had become things and had warped mid and top metas until Raka was nerfed. That's not good, that's broken.

However that does not make the rework a success, it's still a mess of a job because with a kit like that she can never be strong. I mean how are you supposed to be impactful when your burden weighs more than what you provide?

You mean besides providing more healing and CC than ever before? Burden? What burden?

Buying mana doesn't solve all the issues because her kit has 2 spells actively working against her

What the heck are you even talking about?

SEKAIOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Try around halfway through last season.

Because clearly that wasn't an abrupt decision to rework a champ just because one of his main items were deleted. Totally anticipated from a long time ago.

Won't argue that it's a flop. But given what Riot was attempting, anyone would be skeptical that the player base would accept such a radical change.

There is a difference between radical and terrible. Radical would be claiming say a certain religion is absolutely evil while terrible would be bombing them for it.

Riot has done the latter.

Not to mention when you have your customers on the stake and a reputation to keep, I am pretty sure when a fk ton of people who cared or not cared about this champ prior to the rework have all now arrived to his rescue is saying a lot about how bad the changes are as a whole.

Also it's but a simple matter of fairness and common sense. If today the rework is instead a new champ release I am very darn sure there would be no such uproar (at least not in this scale because that kit is just bad no matter how you look at it), it was only this bad because they're deleting a champ for it, who was not sick in any way shape or form.

To put it simply, Morde is stronger than ever, but due to the changes, Morde players don't want the stronger Morde, they want the broken Morde.

The new Morde is both the stronger and the broken one, which no one was asking for it, no one was waiting for this bull crap nor was there anyone who would accept this nonsense of a "rework" that just replaces him with someone else that has 0 connections with him forever.

I am not sure how one could even type this line and still have the balls to submit the post.

It was utterly broken. Mid and Top Raka had become things and had warped mid and top metas until Raka was nerfed. That's not good, that's broken.

Yeah I wasn't saying it wasn't. I was merely saying that her new kit is objectively not stronger than her old one like you were claiming that it is earlier.

You mean besides providing more healing and CC than ever before? Burden? What burden?

What the heck are you even talking about?

I really have no idea if you have any idea about this champ. Just go play her and see how you fair and how she handles, you'd understand.

Kuroi86Oct 20, 20151 votes

Sticking your fingers in your ears and acting like this was something out of the blue doesn't make you look good, it makes you look dumb. Stop it.

Trying to say the old Morde wasn't broken is like saying Vlad or Taric are balanced.

Kuroi86Oct 20, 20151 votes

community's opinions don't support you, the mains (and ex-mains) disagree with you too. Oh yeah because Riot says so

Because HEY! Why listen to the company with 5 years of making this game under their belts. I mean they only made it one of the most popular games in the world is all. And hey, they only define balance in this game. But why listen to them, listen to the people with no experience balancing a game. Sound logic.

Here's a clue, pay a little more attention to Riot and Morde, or heck, go back through the patches where he's been getting work, you'll realize Riot has been forcasting this for quite a while.

kagepaladinOct 18, 20151 votes

you realize that balance post is a day old and i just rectified that asking theyll revert that btw i also gave them some good advice while i was at it :P.

HoodwinkOct 18, 20153 votes

Fiora's title was changed on the PBE by accident, which is why it was reverted so immediately.

Mordekaiser's title was changed intentionally.

kagepaladinOct 18, 20151 votes

if you look that post is made by malicious metal aka the guy who made this one he and alot of other people are angered by the fact that they ask if they're going to revert the changes or re-rework him but never actually hear anything about, i personally think they are just waiting till world's is over. (i hope)

Kiyodai AkamichiOct 19, 20152 votes

I don't really like the premise of this thread, because there have in fact been MULTIPLE red names popping up, and giving the affirmation that Riot hasn't forgotten (including one red response made to another thread by this same guy). If you're not satisfied with the responses, that's one thing. But it feels a bit melodramatic, to me, to act as though NOBODY has said ANYTHING. Yeah, CertainlyT hasn't commented, but I don't think he posts much on the forums anyway (can't imagine why).

JotunheimrOct 18, 20151 votes

A civilized red discussion thread would be nice.

JotunheimrOct 18, 20153 votes

And by this I mean players remaining calm and professional when discussing idwas with a riot employee. Ues, there will be things that we don't like, so we have to adapt, but on the other hand, a champion's playerbase should be listened to as well. There should be some form of comprimise between the two, and than everyone can be content. I want to start a board like this, but I'm afraid of ragers getting on the board and keeping reds from posting.

We must act in a professional and calm manner to grab attention.

MordepoolOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And by this I mean players remaining calm and professional when discussing idwas with a riot employee. Ues, there will be things that we don't like, so we have to adapt, but on the other hand, a champion's playerbase should be listened to as well. There should be some form of comprimise between the two, and than everyone can be content. I want to start a board like this, but I'm afraid of ragers getting on the board and keeping reds from posting.

We must act in a professional and calm manner to grab attention.

I would love for this to happen my fear would be that the forum Morde haters would troll it just to help destroy a champion