Like, we trade being an awkwardly squishy melee range bird for the ability to truly live out our dreams from City Escape with a Duskblade in your left hand and a crossbow in the other.
I mean, her rework didn't make her healthier, but she's still pretty fun to play.
Big Lincoln5 votesplaying as an assassin bird is more fun
new Quinn's ult is just stupid, and she's even more cancer to deal with than before
kda akali1 votesThematically the new ult is more accurate. If I remember correctly Quinn would just fly out of the area and Valor would replace her spot.
Big Lincoln2 votesfun trumps thematic every time
chipndip11 votesBut Valor was legit cancer back in those days. I honestly like current Quinn over old Quinn.
KoKoboto1 votesHave you seen the lethality Quinn build? Old Quinn wasn't that healthy of a champion. New Quinn is even worse!!
KoKoboto3 votesNo it's impossible for any bird of Valor's Size to carry Quinn like that. So the thematic argument gets kicked out the window.
"Hey maybe Valor has some super magical powers?" If he did, him and his race wouldn't be Demacian symbols.
Valor Bot2 votesThematically the old ult was more fitting for Quinn's theme. Quinn is a falconer, not an eagle rider. The old ult was her sending Valor to finish off a target while she charged her crossbow to perform Skystrike. Now it's just Valor flying her around everywhere -- again, more eagle rider-like than falconer-like.
chipndip11 votesThen again, her old ult made 0 sense game play wise. You're a marksman, and yet your ult makes you a melee champion? Your ULT makes you a melee champion as a marksman? Shit just didn't add up. Even if they changed Quinn's ult again, I would NOT turn it back into fighting melee as Valor. Maybe have Valor do a different move...but definitely not fighting as Valor.
Valor Bot1 votes"Marksman that turns melee" isn't inherently problematic. The problem with Quinn's old ult was that she had no escapes or defenses to help survive in fights, making it disproportionately strong in 1v1s and much weaker in full-on 5v5 scenarios. If Valor at least had a disengage tool like an Assassin, or a defensive steroid like a Skirmisher, he'd have been fine overall. But as a melee dps with only one way in and no way out, it presented Quinn with rather risky choices, particularly in teamfights.
chipndip11 votesMarksman that turns melee isn't a problem...for the enemy, who now have it easy killing a marksman who has to fight point-blank. It was part of why she was considered awful, since Valor's team fight was shit. It could be fixed if you wanted to make Valor a full on skirmisher-style character, since skirmishers have pretty strong defensive mechanics, but then that'd confuse Quinn as a pick between three different sub-classes.
So yeah, Valor as an "alternate form" ult presented way too many problems in order to keep. It's simpler and smarter to just change it.
Valor Bot1 votesThree different sub-classes? If they made Valor a skirmisher it'd only be two--marksman (Quinn) and skirmisher (Valor). Unless there's something I'm missing?
Also I disagree that the only way to make the old ult work was by turning Valor into a skirmisher. He'd have worked just fine as an assassin too if they had simply removed the bonus attack speed on his W passive (which was more often than not wasted) and then given him an escape tool on Skystrike (i.e. upon recasting R you land at the target location of your choice, providing Quinn a means of escape after earning a kill as Valor).
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAEN75p7,comment-id=0001000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-08T18:44:19.171+0000)
Three different sub-classes? If they made Valor a skirmisher it'd only be two--marksman (Quinn) and skirmisher (Valor). Unless there's something I'm missing?
Quinn is marksman/assassin.
Also I disagree that the only way to make the old ult work was by turning Valor into a skirmisher. He'd have worked just fine as an assassin too if they had simply removed the bonus attack speed on his W passive (which was more often than not wasted) and then given him an escape tool on Skystrike (i.e. upon recasting R you land at the target location of your choice, providing Quinn a means of escape after earning a kill as Valor).
You said yourself that Valor couldn't work in fights because he had no defensive mechanics as an incredibly squishy target. Like isn't the point of a marksman that you use range to your advantage? Valor had no range. So against a tank or a diver, he was basically useless. Against assassins that didn't care about being blinded, also useless. He was only really good at removing squishy targets from the field with little to no counter-play against his play pattern of flying in at the speed of sound, blinding people, and executing off of Sky Strike. Any other situation and Valor was a power budget sink. It's better that they made Quinn's Harrier passive more reliable and her game play generally better in exchange for removing such an awkward feature.
Valor Bot1 votesQuinn's actually classified as a Unique Playstyle champion now, because she doesn't fully fit the characteristics of any single subclass.
Source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses
You said yourself that Valor couldn't work in fights because he had no defensive mechanics as an incredibly squishy target.
I said the main issue behind Valor's design was that he was too risky because he needed either a) the defensive tools of a skirmisher (i.e. Master Yi's alpha strike, Fiora's parry) or b) the escape tools of an assassin (i.e. Zed's shadows or Talon's Assassin's Path). He had neither though which meant he was a sitting duck after going in with Vault.
chipndip11 votes[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wAEN75p7,comment-id=000100000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-08T19:15:44.806+0000)
Quinn's actually classified as a Unique Playstyle champion now, because she doesn't fully fit the characteristics of any single subclass.
Fair
Source: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses
I said the main issue behind Valor's design was that he was too risky because he needed either a) the defensive tools of a skirmisher (i.e. Master Yi's alpha strike, Fiora's parry) or b) the escape tools of an assassin (i.e. Zed's shadows or Talon's Assassin's Path). He had neither though which meant he was a sitting duck after going in with Vault.
Yeah, but there was no space to put such a move. Even then, it's a marksman built character going into like 125 or so range of a full on tank/diver/assassin/anyone. Last I checked, the LAST thing you do on a marksman-style champ is run right up to them so they can just dump their skills on you at point-blank. Valor was basically the embodiment of the number one thing you don't do as someone with a bow/crossbow/gun.
Still, it's not like I'm going to convince you or anyone reading, so it's whatever. Have fun.
LyingOnLine2 votesWait, your dream is to be a snowboarding hedgehog?
Sp33d Zer01 votesI feel like most people complain about playing against quinn