I mained Garen before the rework (yes really, I even have 5 skins for him). With Garen's kit he shouldn't be allowed to be so strong... it's so toxic. The new one needs the villain mechanic completely removed. I don't play him anymore because it's not fun and he's picked every game. Really nerf harder. He does too much damage for being that unkillable. Champs with last whisper and youmuus should do more than tickle him.
Matezoide4 votesWhy isnt Garen allowed to be good? Just because he is easy?
This game isnt hard at all. Almost every champion ranges from very easy to just easy. Why is Garen braindead but Tryndamere isnt? Shyvana? Annie? Darius?
Hell going by the difficult bar, Riot apparentely considers Garen to be harder than a lot of champions.
He is getting nerfed, dont worry. I understand you are sad that he is FOTM, thats quite common, but it doesnt mean theres anything ineherently wrong with his design. He is simple, but has plenty of counterplay, which is, in my humble opnion, perfectly fine.
Critmaster Garen3 votesI don't play ranked much..
which also means youre playing with randomized teams, against randomized teams and are not picking strategically.
garen always dominated in normals, because his lane phase was his strongest advantage. and the chance that he got countered randomly was lower than an enemy deliberately counterpicking him in ranked.
we cant balance this game around normals for exactly this reason. normals are a gamble when it comes to teamcomps.
GastonBarnacles1 votesI played ranked in the previous seasons.
ID x iKuma2 votesu have 6 total games in this season as garen and u call urself a garen main
tryharder
GastonBarnacles3 votesI don't play ranked much..
redniwediS1 votesDo you not understand what maining a champion actually means? It has to do with the champion, not what queue you play.
Critmaster Garen2 votesDo you not understand what maining a champion actually means? It has to do with the champion, not what queue you play.
the que you play makes a large difference on how a champion plays.
you could just pick garen in normals at any time and would win most of your lanes, since thats where his strength was. especially since people traditionally pick other melee champs into top lane.
you can bet your ass, that if you first pick garen in ranked someone will counterpick you almost every single time. and if the mid laner just picks anivia to shut you down in teamfights later.
the chance for rolling a bad teamcomp for you as garen in normals is much lower than getting hard countered in ranked.
redniwediS1 votesTrue, but that still doesn't really have any impact on whether or not you main a champion. If I come across someone who has 2k wins as Shaco on Dominion and he says he mains Shaco then he mains Shaco. It doesn't matter that he doesn't play SR or Ranked, it only matters that he puts his time and energy into one champion above all others.
He'd feed like crazy in ranked of course, but still you don't have to be good to have a main.
Critmaster Garen2 votesjust out of curiosity. which champ do you consider not to be braindead to play?
GastonBarnacles1 votesChamps that have skill shots and don't just click forward towards an enemy, tank tons of damage and still keep going and then, while being pretty much full tank, kill the squishies and even tanks when having true damage cause of some mechanic (villain). Also the healing makes it even more ridiculous. Garen was good before the rework.
Critmaster Garen4 votesChamps that have skill shots and don't just click forward towards an enemy, tank tons of damage and still keep going and then, while being pretty much full tank, kill the squishies and even tanks when having true damage cause of some mechanic (villain). Also the healing makes it even more ridiculous. Garen was good before the rework.
the true damage only works against the villain. which is in most of the cases an enemy carry, or assassin. sometimes another fighter. and almost never a tank, since its decided by which enemy has the most recent killstreak. it will not amount to more damage than darius ult in almost all the cases.
so good news if youre playing a tank, youre safe for 90% of the time.
the healing existed pre rework. if you actually mained garen youd know that.
relying on skillshots doesnt make other champions more skillful. nidalee can hang back and spam spears all day without putting herself at risk. that doesnt take more skill than proper positioning to catch someone in melee on garen.
LoLKiru2 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w9ENcE8t,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-07T18:35:13.843+0000)
it will not amount to more damage than darius ult in almost all the cases.
the true damage only works against the villain. which is in most of the cases an enemy carry, or assassin. sometimes another fighter. and almost never a tank, since its decided by which enemy has the most recent killstreak.
so good news if youre playing a tank, youre safe for 90% of the time.
the healing existed pre rework. if you actually mained garen youd know that.
relying on skillshots doesnt make other champions more skillful. nidalee can hang back and spam spears all day without putting herself at risk. that doesnt take more skill than proper positioning to catch someone in melee on garen.
I'd say skillshot champs take more mechanical skill (since well, you can miss; rendering your ability completely useless), but Garen takes far more mental skill than some skillshot champs to play properly in a situation where people actually know what they're doing against him.
Also I feel this needs to be a PSA at this point in every Garen discussion thread.
Post 5.18 killing Garen will no longer count towards villainy.
Critmaster Garen3 votes{quoted} Post 5.18 killing Garen will no longer count towards villainy.
i hope this will be enough to get people to shut up about his laning. even though its already weaker by a large margin than pre rework.
i can get that its frustrating if you kill him and then get the mark, which also shouldnt happen too many times anyways, since there are other plays happening on the map. the focus of the lane phase is usually on bot lane.
also, skillshot champs (depending on who were talking about) take more mechanical skill, but significantly less skill when it comes to decision making.
there is not much of a large decision to make for a nidalee if she throws a spear from a safe distance ot not. if she misses then there are no consequences that result from that misplay. if garen misplays hes usually left out to dry in a terrible spot, being focused down by the enemy team.
GastonBarnacles1 votesDude from your name I see you main Garen, wtf how do you like him in his current cancerous state. Old Garen was much more balanced. Also for the healing, after the rework, things like that can be removed.
Critmaster Garen1 votesDude from your name I see you main Garen, wtf how do you like him in his current cancerous state. Old Garen was much more balanced. Also for the healing, after the rework, things like that can be removed.
since his rework i havent lost a single game against a garen. i played about a dozen times against him.
my most recent game i went 7/2 against him on assassin ekko. the fact that i main him makes it incredible easy for me to absuse his weaknesses and outplay him with champions that i maybe touched twice.
i literally never played ekko in ranked before. i beat him with swain who i also never played outside of arams, heimer, and a couple other champions.
userpotatocrab 1 votesyea but nidalee is squishy so she is easy to all in the skill shot window is tiny heal is bypassable unless she has a infinite mana also i dont wanna play tank i play carry hence i am the vilain 90% fo the time
userpotatocrab 1 votesi dont consider fucken champions that can out trade you every 15 sec regardless if u have conquerers stacked up or not not braindead. If the your main player base are fucken idiots that cant auto cancel or manage wave and has less then 4 cs per min and manage to climb to low silver. I know this sounds ridiculous but think about it
Bronzoid2 votesIt's true, I feel the same way. I like playing Garen but he should never be strong until they rework him into a champion that takes some skill.
Critmaster Garen3 votesIt's true, I feel the same way. I like playing Garen but he should never be strong until they rework him into a champion that takes some skill.
ffs. flashy moves dont make a champion more difficult to play. hes mechanically not easier than other champs with straight ability chains. but he doesnt have the freedom and safety of moving over walls or flashing in on the enemy.
most of his abilites to make plays require either to burn flash or to work with his team.
hes mechanically easy to play, and just as easy to outplay. his difficulty lies in decision making and positioning. if youre out of position on garen, you get locked down and fucked. doesnt matter if youre tanky, as most carries chew through his health bar anyways. you cant jump over a wall to get out of a sticky situation or to catch someone out.
GastonBarnacles1 votesDude I have played like 500 Garen matches stop treating me like I don't understand Garen. I prefered old Garen with the better early game but weaker late. New one is cancer in late and early he loses some match ups he used to win. Garen as he is now is toxic, not all Garen players like to abuse freelo. Also he's fotm which is annoying. I want them to revert the changes, that's all. It was a dumb rework, the changes are pointless and the villain mechanic is not clever.
Critmaster Garen2 votesDude I have played like 500 Garen matches stop treating me like I don't understand Garen. I prefered old Garen with the better early game but weaker late. New one is cancer in late and early he loses some match ups he used to win. Garen as he is now is toxic, not all Garen players like to abuse freelo. Also he's fotm which is annoying.
being strong doesnt make him toxic. if you main him, you know what beats him, and you know how easy it is to shut him out of a fight.
i dont really see your problem.
im always asking out captain to leave garen open. because it often means i either get to pick him, or someone on the enemy team picks him, which makes my life just as easy.
Pimity1 votestypical garen fanboi, as shown by ur username
Critmaster Garen1 votestypical garen fanboi, as shown by ur username
the only comment on the boards and its a necro of a two year old thread. really?
userpotatocrab 1 voteswell here is second comment garen is not exactly op but he a pain in the ass to deal with my main normally end up at gold and my other accounts including this one is silver xyna777 emilyemily9 xuisboss and gold jack with a funny a it was plat at one point this season. However the champion is a really obnoxious fucken lane bully sure he has counter pick but honestly I nor my friend like to play them in addition normally if u lane against the fucken piece of shit he auto wins lane and makes ur fucken game anti fun for the 70% of the game till you outscale him and if you feed him or by some horrible god forsaken reason ur adc or something and ur top feeds him and especially when everyone picks carry mids with no cc like talon ur fucked. Look garen is fucken op he basically aurelion sol of top and that shit is so hard to outplay and if the garen focuses on playing safe you can expect to never kill him. In addition majority of the player base isnt plat or diamond so idk y the fuck you would think y most people that want to play enjoyable non braindead champs like riven zed or some other shit that i dont play wouldnt hate him. His silence in fact his whole kit is anti fun for everyone in the fucken game. Honestly i would rather lose and have a enjoyable time then fucken be forced to concede lane and be a bitch for 70% for the game and by god of above garen knows he can tp to bot lane to pick up kills youre fucked. Do you know what counter garen tanks with consistent dps and tons of cc counters his ass or hyper early game useless after 15 min champ counter him and i guarantee you playing those champs arent fun fuck you idiot and i hope people that garen rot in hell. Tryn by the way has a weak early game that you can abuse.
Godsdrugdealer2 voteslook the guys right garen is broke as hell right now ,i just played a game as graves he had a randuins,and a deadmans plate. i had a yommus,last whisper,a bloodthirster,and a bf. i turned my yommus on he wasn't coming at me or anything shot the unholy piss out of him and nothing happened if this is what people call a balanced champ i call bullshit.the guy literally stood there ignored me killed my tank , killed lux then came at me still not even pass half health. that is some bullshit. i wouldn't care if u could actually kite the guy but you really cant. u stun him he lives,he hits q ignores your slow sprints up to u hits e and chunk ur dead , if not ult takes care if that.
Critmaster Garen2 voteslook the guys right garen is broke as hell right now ,i just played a game as graves he had a randuins,and a deadmans plate. i had a yommus,last whisper,a bloodthirster,and a bf. i turned my yommus on he wasn't coming at me or anything shot the unholy piss out of him and nothing happened if this is what people call a balanced champ i call bullshit.the guy literally stood there ignored me killed my tank , killed lux then came at me still not even pass half health. that is some bullshit. i wouldn't care if u could actually kite the guy but you really cant. u stun him he lives,he hits q ignores your slow sprints up to u hits e and chunk ur dead , if not ult takes care if that.
youre bronze 4. you still have to learn the basics of this game.
1 game in your division isnt an indication of the strength of any champ. the game average when it comes to player skill is somewhere around silver 3 to silver 1. thats just the average.
not to sound too harsh, but you literally have to suck at this game and be worse than average to get down to bronze 4.
championgg is placing garens winrate at 53% right now, which is strong but not op or broken.
Godsdrugdealer1 votesrank literally means nothing.also 50%of the player base isn't even ranked. i Don't have to be a gold player or above to tell that a certain champion is currently strong as hell. yes im aware ur going to chalk it up to oh a bronze player knows nothing. here's the thing a typical bronze thing to say i can't carry my way out because honestly i can't i honestly feel i only deserve to be in silver. im average not exceedingly great at this game. but i do understand,mechanics and league .yeah i could take olaf top,or swain and rek garen.
Critmaster Garen1 votesrank literally means nothing.
a rank such as extreme as yours means something. it means you didnt understand how the game really works. before you pass judgement on the strength of a champion you should instead try to learn how to play him, so you understand his weaknesses and know how to fight him.
before i started to really play ranked 2 seasons ago, io played almost exclusively normals. my first placements took me to silver 1, from where i managed to climb slowly. which means at that point i was an average player through experience in normals and already understood how the basics of the game work.
no ofeense, but if you dropped down to b4, you dont really have enough experience to talk balance. the level of play down there is entirely different to how this game is usually played.
It's also how easy it is for fotm players to do so well with him. People who have played him like 2 matches start playing him and winning their lanes and then being a pain in the ass in team fights. Before peopel though he was garbage so ppl didn't play him, now that he's stronger everyone abuses him successfully.
all the better. makes them easier to beat if you know the champions ins and outs and they dont.
GastonBarnacles1 votesIt's also how easy it is for fotm players to do so well with him. People who have played him like 2 matches start playing him and winning their lanes and then being a pain in the ass in team fights. Before peopel though he was garbage so ppl didn't play him, now that he's stronger everyone abuses him successfully.
Godsdrugdealer1 votesive always liked garen and i don't consider him a noob pick or anything. I just feel that he needs a slight nerf
GastonBarnacles1 votesYeah my problem is that he's simple enough to do well with that when he's op, everyone can pick him up and do well.
Matezoide1 votesIt's also how easy it is for fotm players to do so well with him. People who have played him like 2 matches start playing him and winning their lanes and then being a pain in the ass in team fights. Before peopel though he was garbage so ppl didn't play him, now that he's stronger everyone abuses him successfully.
Same thing is happening to champs like Vayne and Jinx. Their stats show even players with 1-5 games are winning matches more often than not.
I ser your point, but this is happening because Garen is very strong atm, not just due to simplicity.