Malzahar jungle

HappyHappy23·Sep 16, 2015·5 votes·3,851 views

Hi, do not know if anyone has tried this but malzahar jungle seems pretty good.

I started Q, casted it 3 times to charge passive

he has a bad early game but once he hits lv3 it gets easier

then when you get your jungle item he clears very fast

i wait for 6 to gank. just Q W E R and its a solid gank

maxed E first then W

after I bought , I went for for the extra CC

he is good for counter-ganking, especially into a , , , , and other champs that all in when he has his ult

late game he is a disabler and can peel for the adc

I guess a counter would be because of his ult range

32 Comments

RiotRiot KoalifierSep 16, 20155 votes

Don't know if I can actively recommend it as good, but I like doing this too. Try starting with W and casting 3 times for the passive. I think it does more damage to jungle camps because of the % max hp. Then you can get E at level 2 to put on small creeps, and with some practice, bounce it to a couple of small monsters at each camp.

For me, it's fun for teambuilder, not so fun for ranked.

SH AzykanSep 17, 20151 votes

I like Q better because of the cd. you can prep 3 charges and then get out a voidling at 1:47* (IF I remember correctly it was the ideal time to cast for best voidling leash) and have Q ready again for the camp spawn. Q>W>E if doing Gromp > Blue start or Q>E>W if doing Krugs start (Having E for raptors is pretty awesome)

I do agree on not playing it in ranked though...people get kinda weird about playing champs that way especially in silver >.>

Though AD malz has like the greatest shoving power EVER. Successful gank? that tower is gone...and possibly half the next one too, or more, if no one shows up to stop it.

Really wish he got some minor tweaks to make that considered "viable" in most peoples eyes (even if they were like placebo effect buffs)

RiotRiot KoalifierSep 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I like Q better because of the cd. you can prep 3 charges and then get out a voidling at 1:47* (IF I remember correctly it was the ideal time to cast for best voidling leash) and have Q ready again for the camp spawn. Q>W>E if doing Gromp > Blue start or Q>E>W if doing Krugs start (Having E for raptors is pretty awesome)

I do agree on not playing it in ranked though...people get kinda weird about playing champs that way especially in silver >.>

Though AD malz has like the greatest shoving power EVER. Successful gank? that tower is gone...and possibly half the next one too, or more, if no one shows up to stop it.

Really wish he got some minor tweaks to make that considered "viable" in most peoples eyes (even if they were like placebo effect buffs)

Ah that makes sense. I'd never thought of prepping the voidling to get the bonuses, that makes a lot of sense. You don't want to give Malz buffs, he's already secret OP! But seriously he has a pretty high winrate, considering that not that many people consider him to be very strong.

That being said, damn his mana costs feel bad.

Photos of GhostsSep 17, 20151 votes

For some weird reason, he's quite picked in bronze ranked solo queue. I guess it's because he's a "first pickable" midlaner.

killd0zerSep 19, 20151 votes

everything is top tier in bronze.

SH AzykanSep 17, 20152 votes

why I said "tweaks" and not buffs :P

Honestly dropping some of his E damage and improving the mana cost on Q (makes it more reasonable to spam it and possibly max it before E). Then making his E have slightly better damage against large/epic monsters if put directly on them would be extremely awesome (less likely to jump from those means you can make a choice on how to use it).

his E kinda makes it feel bad laning against him at times, it chunks really freaken hard and is point and click, on top of being able to jump on you from a minion when you just go in for a last hit. Moving some of its power budget over to Q could be great.

I started picking him into any melee mid laner (especially yasuo) just because it is hilarious dropping an E on a low hp minion when they go to last hit.

Jungle Lux GodSep 18, 20151 votes

The ideal time to prep the cast is 1:41. This gives the voidling enough time to get both the armor/mr buff and the attack speed buff before the first camp you do, and the voidling is going to die from most of the camps in the remaining 7 seconds it has alive anyways, so the time duration on it doesn't really matter. Also, 1:41 is also doable when you start with W on your first camp, while 1:48 (this is the correct time because of the 7/14 seconds it takes for each voidling's buffs and the time of camp spawn is 1:55) doesn't allow you to start W.

SH AzykanSep 19, 20151 votes

see I remember trying out right at 1:48 and it didn't work as well as at 1:47. You get the 3rd stage of the voidling that 1 second earlier and you are tanking at least a couple hits anyways. Idk it seemed like 1:47 just was the perfect timing for a Q start.

And if doing gromp first with a leash (not a 1 auto but an actual leash) you can actually do your cast right at 1:55 for the voidling (you do have to tank the entirety of gromp this way) and you can use the same first voidling on blue buff as well with it buffed up.

Q start also has similar clear as W start because of its shorter cd. And as someone else said, is more forgiving in invade scenarios.

Jungle Lux GodSep 19, 20151 votes

I personally start Blue buff (which is actually doable without a leash, but so much better with a leash), and when you start at blue buff the voidling will die in 2-3 hits even when you get its armor/mr buff, but you also get its attack speed buff too when you cast a 1:41.

Also, 1:41 starts allow you to start Q or W, while 1:47 starts only let you to start Q, so if you aren't afraid of getting invaded it's pretty solid. If I'm not mistaken I remember W also being slightly faster when you don't get a leash, but outside of that Q is a better start.

(Also, it was me who mentioned it was forgiving in invade scenarios).

Jungle Lux GodSep 18, 20152 votes

W does more damage, but Q isn't too far behind in clear speed, and has other advantages.

The major advantage Q has is if Malzahar gets invaded, he has an easier time recovering from it. It takes around half the time to prep the voidling, so if he dies during an invade he can get back to his jungle faster while still getting his voidling, and if he fights the invade with his team he gets the silence and burst damage on Q to help fight back the invade. In his early clears, he can also cast spells a lot more, allowing him to tank with more voidlings and therefore giving him a lot more sustain, at least on the early clears.

Praetor DonSep 16, 20152 votes

I used to play quite a bit of AD Malz jungle before the black cleaver rework.

Those changes hit him pretty hard.

HappyHappy23Sep 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Praetor Don,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w87TcgiG,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-09-16T21:39:59.657+0000)

I used to play quite a bit of AD Malz jungle before the black cleaver rework.

Those changes hit him pretty hard.

really? You would figure the new BC helps because of the extra 10% CD for W spam on camps

Praetor DonSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

really? You would figure the new BC helps because of the extra 10% CD for W spam on camps

His voidlings could tank the camps as well as do decent damage so you could clear extremely fast with them once you had a little cdr+mana.

The early item 3134 + item 3070 made this possible while still building into item 3071 + item 3004 . I'd usually sit on until I got at least my item 3158 . At that point I'd have 30% CDR anyway and could get the full 40% with blue and/or item 3508 .

It was the build path change mainly that hurt him.

I'll be honest though I played way more AD Malz top than I did jungle Malz. Mainly because Full Build AD Malz with TP could destroy 3 towers before the enemy team could stop him.

HappyHappy23Sep 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Praetor Don,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w87TcgiG,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-09-17T01:50:26.420+0000)

His voidlings could tank the camps as well as do decent damage so you could clear extremely fast with them once you had a little cdr+mana.

The early + made this possible while still building into + . I'd usually sit on until I got at least my . At that point I'd have 30% CDR anyway and could get the full 40% with blue and/or .

It was the build path change mainly that hurt him.

I'll be honest though I played way more AD Malz top than I did jungle Malz. Mainly because Full Build AD Malz with TP could destroy 3 towers before the enemy team could stop him.

oh yeah I forgot about brutalizer being on the old BC. gotcha

AtheosisXSep 16, 20151 votes

Sooo vulnerable to getting counter-jungled...

HappyHappy23Sep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sooo vulnerable to getting counter-jungled...

not really, he clears very fast. he would be a better counter jungler

AtheosisXSep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

not really, he clears very fast. he would be a better counter jungler

I'm talking about getting jumped and killed in your jungle, not simply having camps taken. Before he has ult he can't take on most junglers 1v1.

HappyHappy23Sep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm talking about getting jumped and killed in your jungle, not simply having camps taken. Before he has ult he can't take on most junglers 1v1.

oh yeah that's true, but wouldn't W make him win in duels?

AtheosisXSep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

oh yeah that's true, but wouldn't W make him win in duels?

No.

LoLKiruSep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sooo vulnerable to getting counter-jungled...

As a Malzahar main, it works decently (its not the BEST thing for him, it works okay though)

That said, has being easily counter jungled really stopped anyone else? Theres ways to avoid it, Amumu is pretty vulnerable to it as well, but he's got a pretty great winrate and pickrate.

On the chance Malzahar is actually successful, he transitions into one of the best; if not _the _ best duelist in the game

OT: AD Malzahar is honestly far better for this kind of thing, if only because it will enable your voidlings to kill well, pretty much anything they want, which saves you from taking damage earlier in the game during your clears.

HappyHappy23Sep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As a Malzahar main, it works decently (its not the BEST thing for him, it works okay though)

That said, has being easily counter jungled really stopped anyone else? Theres ways to avoid it, Amumu is pretty vulnerable to it as well, but he's got a pretty great winrate and pickrate.

On the chance Malzahar is actually successful, he transitions into one of the best; if not _the _ best duelist in the game

OT: AD Malzahar is honestly far better for this kind of thing, if only because it will enable your voidlings to kill well, pretty much anything they want, which saves you from taking damage earlier in the game during your clears.

I went AP, and the voidlings still did their thing. I was amazed by how fast he cleared

TrebbiSep 16, 20151 votes

If your looking for a new off meta jungler you should try Mordekaiser with the new W change. Gives him infinitive sustain in the jungle and decent clears. Taxing lanes gives you also more XP so you can actually gain a level advantage as morde.

HappyHappy23Sep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If your looking for a new off meta jungler you should try Mordekaiser with the new W change. Gives him infinitive sustain in the jungle and decent clears. Taxing lanes gives you also more XP so you can actually gain a level advantage as morde.

I am not. I just tried malz once cause I was bored

5000000000000000Sep 16, 20151 votes

There's an AD Malzahar jungle main in Master or something. AD Malzahar works by spamming spells to spawn voidlings, each of which has more AD than you, and more attack speed later on. You'd just run around kiting your enemy as your voidlings do all the work. You can solo dragon at level 3, and later on you'll clear jungle camps faster than anyone else. You'd literally just walk by, press Q on a camp, and let your voidlings shred the camp while you walk to the next camp. You can also take baron when it spawns (at 20 minutes) with your tanky top laner.

I personally had a ton of mana problem, so I prefer Runeglaive to Warrior. Otherwise, your core items are item 3004 and item 3071 .

HappyHappy23Sep 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

.

I personally had a ton of mana problem, so I prefer Runeglaive to Warrior. Otherwise, your core items are and .

that's why I went AP for item 3724 he didn't have any mana problems because of it

Adrian UmbraSep 16, 20151 votes

I had a Malzahar jungle not too long ago in a ranked game. The guy was inexperienced with the strategy, not a very good Malzahar player, not a good jungler, and just generally sucked. Sort of put me off on the strategy as a whole.

Seriously, this guy started blue right away (no valuable smite buffs for you), rushed dragon RIGHT after (and died to it), then proceeded to struggle through and solo it at level 3, while his opposing jungler reached level 5 and got his top lane snowballing. Wasn't a good or a happy game.

BakedLotionSep 17, 20151 votes

How come u dont start W? It deals % max hp to monsters and u can spam it in base also

HappyHappy23Sep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How come u dont start W? It deals % max hp to monsters and u can spam it in base also

W had longer cool down. I was just imagining the possibility of an invade, so Q was safer

LadyRenlySep 17, 20151 votes

Honestly, it's just his very first clear that is atrocious. Probably Azir/Vladimir levels of bad. But if you get a leash on blue, you're golden.

If you're an aquadragon you could probably level 2 drag, but I personally go safe and do it at level 3. The early drag throws a lot of people off. It's a fun pocket off meta pick.

RebonackSep 17, 20151 votes

Really wish he got some minor tweaks to make that considered "viable" in most peoples eyes (even if they were like placebo effect buffs)

Making Malz' auto-attacks count as half an Innate stack and then hard-capping him at 2 Voidlings would do it, more or less. Just make it so procing the Innate with two Voidlings out gives them both a full-heal and extends their duration by 7 seconds.

Jungle Lux GodSep 18, 20151 votes

I've also done a fair bit of Malzahar jungle, and I agree with some of the points you made here and disagree with others.

I personally max RQWE because E doesn't really matter in the jungle.

In lane, you max E first for the extra damage for wave clear and the extra mana refund. In the jungle, the mana refund doesn't matter because it always restores less than its cost, the damage isn't as good as the damage on Q, increasing the mana cost on E is much worse than increasing the mana cost on Q, and the cooldown reduction doesn't always matter because you won't get a second E when clearing a camp or in a gank regardless of how long the cooldown is, and in early teamfights it might not matter too much.

Maxing Q in the jungle, on the other hand, does a lot of different things: -it gives him similar/faster clear speeds to E max -it gives him better ganks than E max (weaker ganks than W max because of W's damage) -it makes Runeglaive much safer to utilize in early game teamfights (anyone needs to use Runeglaive passive in order to use it at all) -it gives jungle Malzahar unique strengths over lane Malzahar; lane Malzahar needs to max E first because of his mana costs, but jungle Malzahar has Runeglaive to solve his mana problems so he can afford to max whatever he wants, and Q gives him a 3 second silence at level 9

The only advantage E has over Q max is that it makes it easier to take Scuttle Crab (which isn't much of a problem after you get Runeglaive) and that you don't need to try and hit with Q, but the reward for landing Q is significantly greater than using E on someone.

I also go item 3708 instead of item 3724 because I found that sustain isn't a big issue on Malzhar due to voidling tanking, and you can kind of get away with not having the mana sustain on Ranger's Trailblazer on the first few clears despite not getting the mana sustain on Machete, and mana isn't an issue after getting Runeglaive. Malzahar having that slow earlier than getting Rylai's is huge.

HappyHappy23Sep 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I've also done a fair bit of Malzahar jungle, and I agree with some of the points you made here and disagree with others.

I personally max RQWE because E doesn't really matter in the jungle.

In lane, you max E first for the extra damage for wave clear and the extra mana refund. In the jungle, the mana refund doesn't matter because it always restores less than its cost, the damage isn't as good as the damage on Q, increasing the mana cost on E is much worse than increasing the mana cost on Q, and the cooldown reduction doesn't always matter because you won't get a second E when clearing a camp or in a gank regardless of how long the cooldown is, and in early teamfights it might not matter too much.

Maxing Q in the jungle, on the other hand, does a lot of different things: -it gives him similar/faster clear speeds to E max -it gives him better ganks than E max (weaker ganks than W max because of W's damage) -it makes Runeglaive much safer to utilize in early game teamfights (anyone needs to use Runeglaive passive in order to use it at all) -it gives jungle Malzahar unique strengths over lane Malzahar; lane Malzahar needs to max E first because of his mana costs, but jungle Malzahar has Runeglaive to solve his mana problems so he can afford to max whatever he wants, and Q gives him a 3 second silence at level 9

The only advantage E has over Q max is that it makes it easier to take Scuttle Crab (which isn't much of a problem after you get Runeglaive) and that you don't need to try and hit with Q, but the reward for landing Q is significantly greater than using E on someone.

I also go instead of because I found that sustain isn't a big issue on Malzhar due to voidling tanking, and you can kind of get away with not having the mana sustain on Ranger's Trailblazer on the first few clears despite not getting the mana sustain on Machete, and mana isn't an issue after getting Runeglaive. Malzahar having that slow earlier than getting Rylai's is huge.

I agree with you. I will opt for that if ever think of doing it again