Varus E

HappyHappy23·Oct 19, 2015·2 votes·1,459 views

Hmm. while varus E gives a good amount of decision making for the player: •do I disengage with E and not waste my ult? •do I engage with E and duel?

With the addition of a marksman item that inflicts GW, 's E will be underpowered and not really fill its role as a dueling mechanism, but be a placeholder in his kit as another ability to disengage.

I think a more mage-like ability can be added to his kit instead. His current E can be scrapped and there can be additional power to his R (like an increasing root per rank and other ideas I do not want to spitball)

He has too much disengage for having so many steroids. He should have 2 glaring weaknesses: •immobility •an incentive to be up close and personal (not spamming Q at max range)

Here is my other post on a possible to make him stop spamming Q and be up close

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/NWTsFB8q-more-mgae-like-characteristics-in-varus

31 Comments

Zorae42Oct 19, 20153 votes

Varus doesn't have a steroid. Unless you count his terrible passive that requires a champ kill/assist to give a decent amount of AS, and never procs when you want it to.

His current weaknesses are immobility, meh peel/disengage (anyone with a dash/gapcloser completely ignores his e), and not being very good at burst or sustain dmg. His Q falls off really hard late game unless he builds specifically to keep it relevant (and then he's not an ADC anymore).

He does not need/deserve something else to force him to give up one of his few strengths of long range poke. If anything he needs to lose his bad passive, make his W his passive (since it already feels like it is), and be given something that allows him to get a more reliable AS steroid. If they still want him to not be able to access it early in the fight, tie it to the number of blight stacks he has up. He just needs something to keep him a little more relevant late game as an ADC.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Varus doesn't have a steroid. Unless you count his terrible passive that requires a champ kill/assist to give a decent amount of AS, and never procs when you want it to.

His current weaknesses are immobility, meh peel/disengage (anyone with a dash/gapcloser completely ignores his e), and not being very good at burst or sustain dmg. His Q falls off really hard late game unless he builds specifically to keep it relevant (and then he's not an ADC anymore).

He does not need/deserve something else to force him to give up one of his few strengths of long range poke. If anything he needs to lose his bad passive, make his W his passive (since it already feels like it is), and be given something that allows him to get a more reliable AS steroid. If they still want him to not be able to access it early in the fight, tie it to the number of blight stacks he has up. He just needs something to keep him a little more relevant late game as an ADC.

I think his W shoud be his passive. I do not think he should be a strong duelist though, so no AS steroid (my opinion). I think he should be more mage-like in his kit only while building marksman items to compliment his mixed damage output

Hayaishi2Oct 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I think his W shoud be his passive. I do not think he should be a strong duelist though, so no AS steroid (my opinion). I think he should be more mage-like in his kit only while building marksman items to compliment his mixed damage output

But Varus is not a duelist.

Having Grievous wounds does not make him one.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But Varus is not a duelist.

Having Grievous wounds does not make him one.

I never said he was. I was referring to the idea of having an AS steroid somewhere else, not his current passive nor his E

I refer to E as a dueling mechanic. It give him the option to duel, but isn't the best

Hayaishi2Oct 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I never said he was. I was referring to the idea of having an AS steroid somewhere else, not his current passive.

Varus is a marksman. Not a mage.

Marksman are meant to have steroids. If you want a poke mage play Xerath, leave Varus alone.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Varus is a marksman. Not a mage.

Marksman are meant to have steroids. If you want a poke mage play Xerath, leave Varus alone.

He is a marksman but also an AD caster. Hence, why is secondary role is a "mage"

capitalizing on this would differentiate him from other marksmen.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/NWTsFB8q-more-mgae-like-characteristics-in-varus

There are already tons of ADCs with AS steroids. I do not think Varus should fall in this bandwagon. There is much more potential for him

khorneyOct 19, 20151 votes

no hence his secoundary role as a mage becuase varus going ap is one of the highest damaging champion in league period pretty much a vayne silver bolts but 100 times stronger

Zorae42Oct 19, 20153 votes

He doesn't need the AS steroid to duel, he needs it so he can fulfil his job as an ADC. He doesn't burst, he doesn't do sustained dmg, he has no mobility, and his peel is pretty bad. All he does is poke and potentially set up good engages with his ult. Might as well take Sivir or Ashe who are much safer and more helpful (and both have AS steroids to keep them relevant). Or just take him mid and bring a real ADC bot.

And like I said, you could tie it to his blight stacks. You wont win any duels if you need to build up a decent amount of stacks before dealing decent dmg.

I really like Varus, I just want him to be a decent ADC pick instead of just being relevant mid.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He doesn't need the AS steroid to duel, he needs it so he can fulfil his job as an ADC. He doesn't burst, he doesn't do sustained dmg, he has no mobility, and his peel is pretty bad. All he does is poke and potentially set up good engages with his ult. Might as well take Sivir or Ashe who are much safer and more helpful (and both have AS steroids to keep them relevant). Or just take him mid and bring a real ADC bot.

And like I said, you could tie it to his blight stacks. You wont win any duels if you need to build up a decent amount of stacks before dealing decent dmg.

I really like Varus, I just want him to be a decent ADC pick instead of just being relevant mid.

He does burst and sustained damage. He actually has higher burst than most marksmen. His sustained damage via AAs isn't the best though, but if he had a stronger AS steroid he would be a jack of all trades...

His sustained damage is bad because of his burst. its a high risk/ high reward type of thing His peel is great (ult-wise) you can root an entire team or force them to switch their positioning with your ult. its a win-win disengage

that's why I made this post on a reworked blight passive - that way he has an incentive to do sustained damage

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/NWTsFB8q-more-mgae-like-characteristics-in-varus

Zorae42Oct 19, 20152 votes

He doesn't have burst, he has poke. They are two different things. One ability that takes 2 secs to charge and becomes a tickle if it goes through anything is not burst. Don't get me wrong, it's strong and fun and chunks a huge amount of health out of squishies. But it won't kill them. And he doesn't really have a way to follow it up with more burst (unless he builds AD caster and can do it more often, but then he's not an ADC).

Graves has burst, Ezreal has burst/poke and they both have AS steroids and mobility. Nobody calls them jack of all trades though.

His ult is one of (if not the) hardest skill shots to land. It's a 2 sec root (not stun) that takes ages to spread. It's good for initiating/delaying team fights. It is terrible for attempting to get away (making him a terrible split pusher since he can't duel or escape well). But I'm okay with that. I don't want Varus to be good at everything.

I don't even necessarily want a stronger AS steroid than the one he has now, I just want one he can actually use properly in a fight. Make his W be that if he has X stacks up he can activate it to get up to 40% AS depending on how many stacks he has. Even require those stacks to be on champions, and make the number bigger than 3 to get the 40% so he can't use it 1v1. It'd still be better than his current passive.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He doesn't have burst, he has poke. They are two different things. One ability that takes 2 secs to charge and becomes a tickle if it goes through anything is not burst. Don't get me wrong, it's strong and fun and chunks a huge amount of health out of squishies. But it won't kill them. And he doesn't really have a way to follow it up with more burst (unless he builds AD caster and can do it more often, but then he's not an ADC).

Graves has burst, Ezreal has burst/poke and they both have AS steroids and mobility. Nobody calls them jack of all trades though.

His ult is one of (if not the) hardest skill shots to land. It's a 2 sec root (not stun) that takes ages to spread. It's good for initiating/delaying team fights. It is terrible for attempting to get away (making him a terrible split pusher since he can't duel or escape well). But I'm okay with that. I don't want Varus to be good at everything.

I don't even necessarily want a stronger AS steroid than the one he has now, I just want one he can actually use properly in a fight. Make his W be that if he has X stacks up he can activate it to get up to 40% AS depending on how many stacks he has. Even require those stacks to be on champions, and make the number bigger than 3 to get the 40% so he can't use it 1v1. It'd still be better than his current passive.

he does have burst. its his combo

R/AA /E/AA/AA/AA/Q

just AA/AA/Q or AA/AA/AA/Q is enough burst

but there isn't much reward because the burst takes too long to prep in a team fight.

Which is why he needs more depth to his W so he has an incentive to do sustained damage

his ult isn't hard to land. They buffed the width of it by 25 if I recall. Its really easy to land, and its a win-win disengage . with his current meta build its also at a 42s cooldown so he is pretty safe late game.

I like that idea, but it would make him closer to a jack of all trades.

Zorae42Oct 19, 20151 votes

3AAs + an ability that takes 2 secs to charge == burst. Especially because he has no AS steroid. Burst by definition doesn't take time to do.

Graves can E/Q/Ult instantly for 910+300% bonus AD and then be sitting at a 70%AS boost if they somehow managed to survive.

Ez can Q/W/E for 640+110AD+50%Bonus AD and then have a 50%AS (or channel for 1 sec and do 650+100%Bonus AD with his ult).

Varus cannot do that much dmg that quickly. He takes time to do his dmg (which is pretty significant). And I don't mind that he can't do burst dmg. That's not his identity. He does poke and a decent amount of back loaded dmg.

And I fail to see how changing his current inaccessible AS steroid to one that still takes time to get to and just gives you more control over when you get it makes him a jack of all trades. It wouldn't help his sieging, dueling, or burst.it would only slightly help his sustained and potentially strenthen his current combo since he'd be able to do it better after using it.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

3AAs + an ability that takes 2 secs to charge == burst. Especially because he has no AS steroid. Burst by definition doesn't take time to do.

Graves can E/Q/Ult instantly for 910+300% bonus AD and then be sitting at a 70%AS boost if they somehow managed to survive.

Ez can Q/W/E for 640+110AD+50%Bonus AD and then have a 50%AS (or channel for 1 sec and do 650+100%Bonus AD with his ult).

Varus cannot do that much dmg that quickly. He takes time to do his dmg (which is pretty significant). And I don't mind that he can't do burst dmg. That's not his identity. He does poke and a decent amount of back loaded dmg.

And I fail to see how changing his current inaccessible AS steroid to one that still takes time to get to and just gives you more control over when you get it makes him a jack of all trades. It wouldn't help his sieging, dueling, or burst.it would only slightly help his sustained and potentially strenthen his current combo since he'd be able to do it better after using it.

its really the interval of procing the W stack that is the burst. Graves is getting nerfed because he is too much like Lucian. Ezreal's ult is easy to avoid. There is a lot of counter play to ezreal

yes, varus has to risk using his autos to do that damage. However, his autos are not rewarding enough to do that so people build him as an AD caster that spams Q.

I agree, it takes too long to set up

it wouldn't. misjudged

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Graves has burst, Ezreal has burst/poke and they both have AS steroids and mobility. Nobody calls them jack of all trades though.

graves is in an interesting spot right now.

He is like an aoe damage assassin.

He fits into aoe comps, can duel and kite pretty well, does have burst, but he cant bust tanks which is why isn't seen so much. The fighter's item overhaul caused that.

off topic but I always imagined graves dealing anti-armor round to his target. mainly because of the shotgun

anyway

ezreal is very weak atm. He has the best range though, and is very safe. there are just too many tanks/juggernauts/ fights running item 3053 , item 3748 and item 3742

ezreal is terrible at tanks because he doesn't have true sustained damage. thre is like a 1.2s delay for every landed Q

he is flexible though in his builds.

Zorae42Oct 19, 20151 votes

Oh yes, I know they have their problems. Although those are kinda meta related. Doesn't change anything or make them better, but it's not because they're inherently bad (at least Graves isn't lol).

But they do have more burst and safety than Varus and yet they still have an accessible AS steroid to slightly help their terrible sustained dmg and make them decent-ish at taking objectives.

Varus has none of their burst or safety and has a terrible AS steroid that only procs on kills/assists (which isn't very useful). So he can't burst, he can't take down tanks, he can't duel, he's mediocre at taking objectives (and terrible at split pushing them), and he's not very safe.

All he has is really good poke, good backloaded dmg, and decent engage/disengage (but not peel). Which makes him a great AD caster, and a terrible ADC.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Oh yes, I know they have their problems. Although those are kinda meta related. Doesn't change anything or make them better, but it's not because they're inherently bad (at least Graves isn't lol).

But they do have more burst and safety than Varus and yet they still have an accessible AS steroid to slightly help their terrible sustained dmg and make them decent-ish at taking objectives.

Varus has none of their burst or safety and has a terrible AS steroid that only procs on kills/assists (which isn't very useful). So he can't burst, he can't take down tanks, he can't duel, he's mediocre at taking objectives (and terrible at split pushing them), and he's not very safe.

All he has is really good poke, good backloaded dmg, and decent engage/disengage (but not peel). Which makes him a great AD caster, and a terrible ADC.

He is weak. I think they should go more in depth with AD caster route

scrap his E, make his W his passive, add more reward to W, and make another ability for his W

khorneyOct 19, 20151 votes

umm have you seen or played ap varus , burst is a understament do not underestimate the power of ap varus. burst anyone in the game dead in like 2 secs. his w is very very strong and his ult scales 100% ap with not a high cd he is very strong

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

umm have you seen or played ap varus , burst is a understament do not underestimate the power of ap varus. burst anyone in the game dead in like 2 secs. his w is very very strong and his ult scales 100% ap with not a high cd he is very strong

yeah AP varus is pretty strong, which is why I think he should have mana ratios (or some mechanic that deals with his mana pool) to compliment his AD caster identity, and to encourage item 3070 and item 3508 builds. He has a late game from this build and an incentive to use his AAs.

AP varus is mainly late game imo

khorneyOct 19, 20151 votes

well yes i start nashors tooth cd boots wits end or runaans lich bane deathcap and hourglass is ideal for me. you really do not need pent imo. and youll be at 40% cd which is what you need to be at or it really helps you if your at this, and lichbane just adds a little more damage and it still gives you 80 ap so its not liek its weak. and runaans you rape there cs to basically they wont be able to push lol.

Hayaishi2Oct 19, 20151 votes

I fail to understand how having GW in an item will make Varus' E under powered.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I fail to understand how having GW in an item will make Varus' E under powered.

His E inflicts GW, so its primarily a dueling mechanism.

lets say he had to equip the item that inflicts GW - His E will only be small-radius aoe slow. There could be room for something better/more in-depth

Hayaishi2Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

His E inflicts GW, so its primarily a dueling mechanism.

lets say he had to equip the item that inflicts GW - His E will only be small-radius aoe slow. There could be room for something better/more in-depth

And why would he use the GW item when he already has a GW on his kit? and AOE GW.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And why would he use the GW item when he already has a GW on his kit? and AOE GW.

it depends on if said item is staple for ADCs or not. In this case, overpowered (I guess)

LaoBushidoOct 19, 20151 votes

you have to consider that the gw is in his kit, the problem with excuniers calling was that it was a wait of space for better item the same can be said for this you have to expend the extra gold to build it while varus build more damage. also gw is niche for people who dont have it in there kit most adc will only build it again super healer like nasus , mundo , yoric, or any tank that goes into item 3083

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you have to consider that the gw is in his kit, the problem with excuniers calling was that it was a wait of space for better item the same can be said for this you have to expend the extra gold to build it while varus build more damage. also gw is niche for people who dont have it in there kit most adc will only build it again super healer like nasus , mundo , yoric, or any tank that goes into

that's true, but if there was the case of executioner's being a staple for adcs I think his E should be reworked

LaoBushidoOct 19, 20151 votes

to be fair varus is a marksmen, and there is a marksmen rework coming up.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

to be fair varus is a marksmen, and there is a marksmen rework coming up.

that's why I made this discussion.

MistikalOct 19, 20151 votes

I personally use his E to proc his W in the laning phase. It's easier to land and uses less mana (b/c i keep it at level 1) thats just me though.

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=King KSer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A6kOdkMq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-19T17:10:09.780+0000)

I personally use his E to proc his W in the laning phase. It's easier to land and uses less mana (b/c i keep it at level 1) thats just me though.

that's what one of my points was. Its just "another spell" to proc W. A placeholder.

EDIT: the way you put it just seems unhealthy.

If you do his combo that way, there is little counterplay (beside using your AAs)

You trade with an AA ---> E (lets say at max range due to animation) ----> initiate a duel (congrats you will win the trade due to W proc and GW)

Q has more counterplay

HappyHappy23Oct 19, 20151 votes

bump