Honest question about "shieldbot freelo" supports.

FOR JUSTICE·May 26, 2018·3 votes·2,522 views

I've noticed we as a community more or less refer to champs like as shield bots, but I'm kind of questioning why we perceive them this way. I watch high Elo streamers sometimes, and the one common factor I've noticed is that they don't actually max their shield ability, they max their poke ability. when you think of a shield bot champ, you would think of someone who spams shields and plays super passive, but if they max an aggressive ability, isn't that a complete shift in playstyle?

therefore if they stand upfront and poke the crap out of an enemy which is more of a mage support playstyle, how come when champions like do it we call it carrying, but no matter how much poke they do or how much damage they output in lane, ones like are reffered to as being "carried" by someone else and just "grind out 1000 games to call themselves diamond"?

[sg-lux-2]

18 Comments

PinkajMay 26, 20182 votes

Soraka and Sona I'd say are "true" supports, because when you go to their profile page, their primary role icon would be the support one. For Zyra and Brand's case, their primary role are mages. The mage supports carry because they use their damage to help the team get kills, or catch kills when their adc can't ( Lux Velkoz ) The enchanter (true) supports get carried because their champion is made for utility instead of damage, therefore are less likely to take kills. Unless, of course, it's intentional The reason why the poke abilities are maxed first are because of a couple factors:

It helps with early pressure
In early game, some supports have a high cost for casting a heal/shield, like , but it's important for mid-game where roaming is important, and teamfights occur, so that's why some supports will max their shield second. Some supports, have a poke ability that is also their protecting ability, like E W, so they will max that first because it's damage and utility.

ProvengreilMay 26, 20181 votes

there's a 3rd reason to max the poke: damage is higher relative to champs HP and defenses than it ever has been. Shielding helps but not nearly so much as jsut killing them, which in the current environment is much easier.

saltranMay 26, 20182 votes

Ppl hate the "e girl champs", just that.

Ignore the silver incels and remember that we, adc mains, love you for playing champs that can peel for us aswell as poke and cc.[slayer-jinx-catface]

NetorareMay 26, 20182 votes

Shield bots should get gutted together with assassins so they won't feel left out...

Pika FoxMay 26, 20182 votes

People dont wanna admit its the support who hard carries and decides all of bot lane.

DemonBoneJanglesMay 26, 20181 votes

the thing I noticed about the champions you have mentioned is that Janna, Lulu, Soraka, and Sona all have either heals or shields or both, this is what seperates them from the "carry" supports like Zyra, Brand, And Vel'Koz. the shield bot term likely refers to the fact that with the right builds and enough cd they can almost permanently shield their carry and make them almost dummy proof in lane, while the only this that the "carry" supports bring is damage and maybe one form of cc

FOR JUSTICEMay 26, 20181 votes

yeah but im just questioning of all terms, why shield bots, considering Karma is a mix of both herself. and even then, no matter which support you play they all ultimately get the ADC fed in one way or another, therefore aren't they all meat shields?

DepressedAhriMay 26, 20181 votes

All supports are feeders in some way or another. Sometimes we feed our ADC, sometimes we feed the enemy ADC.

Daddy AntsMay 26, 20181 votes

I'd say Sona is the healthiest enchanter at the moment.

My thoughts on the 2 biggest offenders -

Lulu : Overloaded Kit.

Point and Click hard CC. If cast on an ally it gives them 45% Attack Speed and 30% movement speed. That's the same AS as on a Phantom Dancer

10 second cooldown shield at max rank that has a 6 second duration. Also gives her ally an insane amount of extra on hit magic damage. Can also be cast on an enemy granting True sight + doing a high amount of damage.

An ultimate that gives her target like 3 ruby crystals worth of HP and knocks up any enemies around them.

Only healthy part of her kit in my opinion is her Q.

Janna : Overloaded kit

Tornado is fair imo. It takes time to charge and can be dodged.

Point and click W that does an insane amount of damage and also procs Aery and Scorch making a champion who is supposed to do no damage actually be a damage threat.

Shield that has a insanely low cooldown when maxed. Insanely high base and AP Ratios and gives her ally a BF Sword worth of Attack Damage for the duration of the shield.

Her R is fair. It can be stopped with stuns/knockbacks/silences.

I feel like Riot needs to look at Summon Aery and Scorch as well as enchanter shielding and healing abilities.

Summon Aery, Scorch and the loss of MR from the old runes system are the main cause of their oppressive poke.

Pika FoxMay 26, 20181 votes

Nah. Until she either gets a rework to be a pure aura support or remove her auras, shell either be oppressively OP or worthless.

Daddy AntsMay 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w85odyp1,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-05-26T18:17:35.662+0000)

Nah. Until she either gets a rework to be a pure aura support or remove her auras, shell either be oppressively OP or worthless.

Compared to Janna, Lulu, Soraka, Nami..

Sona is pretty healthy imo

(Yes, I play all of those too)

Pika FoxMay 26, 20181 votes

Sona is the least healthy enchanter support in the game, even compared to those you listed. Her auras have always made her either OP and feel meh to play, or UP and feel even worse to play. (Or OP and feel great to play if you have your Q and passive do any real damage, as thats all that actually feels satisfying to the player to use. An easy way to tell if sona needs nerfs is if the player is having fun playing her)

Daedric EtwahlMay 27, 20181 votes

I mean, I get what he's saying. Discounting the times where Sona is blatantly OP, whenever people are complaining about Enchanter supports, they pretty much never call out Sona. Just Janna, Lulu, Soraka, and sometimes Karma. As long as they keep her from being blatantly overpowered, I think Sona's in a pretty good spot, like right now. She feels pretty alright.

CochoMay 26, 20181 votes

New runes really helped these champs become poke lane bullies. They really shouldn't be. Absolutly disgusting how janna can press W or raka press E and bully champs out of lane. It wasn't that way before

After laning, their poke doesnt really matter and they afk next to the ADC to support them like its always been. Brand, zyra, and velkoz play the mid/late game differently.

Dead flag bluesMay 26, 20181 votes

Because they don't have any skillshot, their skillfloor is extremely low, equal to their skill ceiling. Please tell me poking with Janna (she deals insane damage with her W now, thanks rito for the bufferino) is the same as poking with Zyra

They also have a "oh shit" button which require no skill to be pressed (R Q for Janna, R W for Lulu)

Conclusion : They are rewarded for no effort involved, while need to hit his Q after his E to stun someone for instance (and it doesn't go through units, Lulu ), Zyra has really low damage but high damage over time and needs to zone enemies

Pika FoxMay 26, 20181 votes

Oh please. Yes, playing janna properly is at least as difficult as playing zyra. Janna has a long delay unweildy skillshot that requires prediction to use optimally, a shield you need to choose to use either offensively (gives stats until broken) or defwnsively (shield target taking damage shield will break faster meaning less stats), and an AoE displacement ult that can hurt your team more than help.

There are no "no skill freelo ezwin" champs.

woodvsmurphMay 26, 20181 votes

Sona hasn't had meaningful poke for a long time compared to other champs. Unless she goes full ap instead of adc-buffing support items. Then she needs her lich bane before her poke is truly meaningful.

While the new raka changes to e and whatnot make her more damage oriented, it's still mostly about the fact that she can HEAL AND poke.

And while these champs CAN play agro... the fact is they don't really HAVE to to find success.

I have respect for sona players because they go into most lanes as a losing matchup, survive lane, and become super op mid/late. If they can snowball lane, they probably earned it.

Raka is a different story even before the new hyped build/e-max. And honestly not much respect for low elo brand players either. If the enemy adc is just bad, he gets a free lane and a good support can't do anything to change that. His damage is absurd and he faces little threat from an enemy support by themselves in lane.

Gimme a good adc though, and I'll take Leona or Morgana into either of those classes any day and smash them.