I feel like your Veigar buffs have removed any skill-expression in getting 400 stacks.

Inari Fox Orrion·Jul 10, 2019·3 votes·1,319 views

You used to have to be really good at using Q to kill minions, or you used to have had to been really fed. Now? Now you just spam abilities in lane and, if they hit, you get a stack. It doesn't fit with his thematic, and it does great at removing any kind of nuance you were supposed to have in the laning phase, where you only ever blew abilities in an attempt to kill them with R or sometimes Q.

I haven't ever come to think of the point of the buffs he got until now... and now that I think of them, I have to ask "Why?" I can't put into words how frustrating it is to have to deal with this sort of thing in SoloQ where people will unreliably do any of the following: get hit, get killed, and let him farm. It's the same with Nasus, and they had to buff him as well. Why? They were fine.

13 Comments

Posui GartJul 10, 20192 votes

There isn't much skill expression in using Q to kill minions. Hitting champions with skillshots is usually harder because they dodge things
Punishing player for hitting enemy champion instead of minions with his spells is bad thing and promotes passive farming

Inari Fox OrrionJul 10, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6WHqZVQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-10T12:20:56.916+0000)

There isn't much skill expression in using Q to kill minions. Hitting champions with skillshots is usually harder because they dodge things

Punishing player for hitting enemy champion instead of minions with his spells is bad thing and promotes passive farming

I'm sorry, but how is it a punishment when everyone else is 'punished' for hitting enemy champions in the same way? Literally, he is the ONLY one with a passive that statistically benefits from hitting an enemy champion. Not getting a benefit for doing something is not a punishment, a punishment is a negative consequence for doing something. No wonder the game's in such a bad state if they listen to you people.

Posui GartJul 10, 20193 votes

Before buffs: You use your Q to kill a minion=>you get 1 ap You use your Q to hit enemy champion and lasthit that minion with AAs=>you don't get 1 ap Hitting champion effectively lost you 1 ap.

he is the ONLY one with a passive that statistically benefits from hitting an enemy champion

Aatrox Akali Camille Darius Ekko Fiora Heimerdinger Illaoi Kayn etc have spells that benefit from hitting enemy champion, not to mention Dark harvest, Grasp and Klepto that give permanent bonuses for hitting enemy champions.

Inari Fox OrrionJul 10, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6WHqZVQ,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T13:20:21.596+0000)

Before buffs: You use your Q to kill a minion=>you get 1 ap You use your Q to hit enemy champion and lasthit that minion with AAs=>you don't get 1 ap Hitting champion effectively lost you 1 ap.

etc have spells that benefit from hitting enemy champion, not to mention Dark harvest, Grasp and Klepto that give permanent bonuses for hitting enemy champions.

9 champions, 8 of which that have been known to be problematic, who benefit from hitting champions with their spells. Let me ask you, how does that change the fact that it's not a punishment not to get a benefit? Again, he was perfectly okay before the buffs and now he's just a champion that can mindlessly hyper-scale. Without any real skill or effort on part of the player.

He isn't broken or overpowered, but they could have done a lot differently and better when they buffed him up. Instead he's now common because of his mindless scaling. It even made more thematic sense for him to get Phenomenal Evil Power from killing things, but now the 0/12, 34 CS Veigar can scale even if he's the farthest from an evil overlord you can get.

Posui GartJul 10, 20191 votes

Thats a lot more than 9 champions, I just decided to stop at some point

it's not a punishment not to get a benefit?

By that logic permaban is not a punishment, you just don't get a benefit of playing the game

he's now common

Champion.gg says he is #13 pickrate of all midlaners with 2.28% pickrate, thats not that common

0/12, 34 CS Veigar can scale

Unless enemies just decide to afk farm, the game will end before 0/12 34 cs veigar can actually outscale someone. Besides, I don't actually see how there is a difference between old and new 0/12 Veigar, he probably isn't hitting his spells on champions much anyway. He will only get his ap from minions and assists, and he could do it even before buffs

Inari Fox OrrionJul 10, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6WHqZVQ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T16:29:29.768+0000)

Thats a lot more than 9 champions, I just decided to stop at some point

By that logic permaban is not a punishment, you just don't get a benefit of playing the game

Champion.gg says he is #13 pickrate of all midlaners with 2.28% pickrate, thats not that common

Unless enemies just decide to afk farm, the game will end before 0/12 34 cs veigar can actually outscale someone. Besides, I don't actually see how there is a difference between old and new 0/12 Veigar, he probably isn't hitting his spells on champions much anyway. He will only get his ap from minions and assists, and he could do it even before buffs

2.28%? That's... only if you count it on a per-player basis instead of a per-match basis, but w/e.

I guess I could've worded my post better. I'm not saying he's broken, I'm just saying he could do with different buffs instead of the same arbitrary and ineffective ones they gave to Nasus.

Posui GartJul 10, 20192 votes

I personally think that "sit under turret and farm" should not be any champion's best strategy, and by putting yourself in a bit of danger situation you should be able to achieve greater results, that's why i think Veigar's buffs were in the right direction. Not saying they were the best possible, and you are right to say that perhaps stacking AP by hitting spells is not that nice mechanic. Nasus, however, was clearly buffed in a wrong way: he still can't contest his lane, falls off late(contrary to the idea of infinitely stacking damage), and last change i remember(12 stacks for cannon/large monster) even turned him into an afk farm jungler for a while.

Inari Fox OrrionJul 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6WHqZVQ,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T18:02:13.523+0000)

I personally think that "sit under turret and farm" should not be any champion's best strategy, and by putting yourself in a bit of danger situation you should be able to achieve greater results, that's why i think Veigar's buffs were in the right direction. Not saying they were the best possible, and you are right to say that perhaps stacking AP by hitting spells is not that nice mechanic. Nasus, however, was clearly buffed in a wrong way: he still can't contest his lane, falls off late(contrary to the idea of infinitely stacking damage), and last change i remember(12 stacks for cannon/large monster) even turned him into an afk farm jungler for a while.

At least you understand what I'm trying to say.

Inari Fox OrrionJul 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Posui Gart,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6WHqZVQ,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-10T16:29:29.768+0000)

Thats a lot more than 9 champions, I just decided to stop at some point

By that logic permaban is not a punishment, you just don't get a benefit of playing the game

Champion.gg says he is #13 pickrate of all midlaners with 2.28% pickrate, thats not that common

Unless enemies just decide to afk farm, the game will end before 0/12 34 cs veigar can actually outscale someone. Besides, I don't actually see how there is a difference between old and new 0/12 Veigar, he probably isn't hitting his spells on champions much anyway. He will only get his ap from minions and assists, and he could do it even before buffs

A permanent ban is literally defined as 'a punishment for consistent, toxic behaviour.' Not only that, but playing LoL is something you could otherwise do no matter what; Accounts are free to make and use. A consequence is the natural end result of something, and may be what you're thinking of... but a punishment? A permaban is a punishment. Being rewarded for hitting a champion with a skill-shot is not.

heroikcJul 10, 20191 votes

Nasus still never got that Q revert, so Veigar may as well get something to catch up.

Sky CardisJul 10, 20191 votes

Veigar got a buff recently? Didn't see anything in the patch notes. Or is it an upcoming patch?

I can't find anything about it.

Sgt Pepper 420Jul 10, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sky Cardis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6WHqZVQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-10T18:43:31.411+0000)

Veigar got a buff recently? Didn't see anything in the patch notes. Or is it an upcoming patch?

I can't find anything about it.

He is complaining about a buff that occurred in patch 6.9... THREE YEARS AGO. That veigar passive stacks AP on use of abilities to hit enemy champs rather than only based on minions.

Sky CardisJul 11, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sgt Pepper 420,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=w6WHqZVQ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-07-10T20:55:17.517+0000)

He is complaining about a buff that occurred in patch 6.9... THREE YEARS AGO. That veigar passive stacks AP on use of abilities to hit enemy champs rather than only based on minions.

Oh geez XD and here I got excited for a new buff on Veigar XD