[Remade] Riot, part of your toxicity problem stems from how one-sided matches are.

Inari Fox Orrion·Apr 25, 2017·55 votes·3,240 views

The title.

Nothing is fun or fair about a match ending 5-25 or 25-5, in your favor or theirs. Stomping may be fun, but it's extremely irritating for the other team. Being stomped, well, you're the other team so of course it's extremely irritating.

...but what I find worst is that most of the blame-gaming and flaming comes from your own teammates during stupid situations like these, where you're left to sit, for twenty or more minutes, through an irredeemable loss... ...and what do you do with that time? SOMETHING. And that usually is to find "whose responsible" for this loss.

I'm sorry, but start with one of the core aspects of the problem and why people majorly agree the matchmaking isn't how it should be: the commonality of win-loss streaks and stomps.

That's all. I remade this to better-phrase my issue.

I figured this out after I realized me and my team were blame-gaming eachother and getting really salty after a stupid stomp because they had a team of... [2 G2's, 2 B3's, a Lv29] up against our team of [3 B4's, an unranked, a Lv26] and, worse, this came after a small winstreak.

~~It was pretty obvious they wanted to end my winstreak with how broken this was.~~

60 Comments

Fed by Snu SnuApr 25, 201718 votes

Being exploited and going 0-5 is by far the easiest it has ever been as a meta.

I can't even blame anyone for suffering that fate anymore, since I have found myself in that situation. Getting to a point where the only redeeming action is a gank from your own jungler within a single or two kills is ridiculous, feels crap and is crap.

Inari Fox OrrionApr 25, 20176 votes

But then imagine it being 3-15 only five minutes in? Imagine that their jungler so far outclasses yours, their midlaner so far outclasses yours, their toplaner is just about equal to yours, and... your botlane may as well not exist for them, sans as "free tower gold!"

It's so... so... so unfun, and so infuriating, and it... shouldn't happen given you match people properly, but it does.

I love your name, by the way.

Fed by Snu SnuApr 25, 20173 votes

{quoted}

But then imagine it being 3-15 only five minutes in? Imagine that their jungler so far outclasses yours, their midlaner so far outclasses yours, their toplaner is just about equal to yours, and... your botlane may as well not exist for them, sans as "free tower gold!"

It's so... so... so unfun, and so infuriating, and it... shouldn't happen given you match people properly, but it does.

I love your name, by the way.

Most of the time it boils down to their jungler outclassing ours and that goes way out of control.

Lane skill match up only applies up to a point. That point has also been made smaller compared to previous metas that I've got to experience. (weren't around for S5+6)

I remember when the Jayce vs Riven lane was considered a skill match up. And you could still play it out as Jayce while 0-2. You could still play it out as Riven while 0-2. Now both of them with stomp the ground of each other with that score.

Back in season 3 I could play from behind with some comfort and remedy a mistake. This seems to be really hard right now. Some reworks are also really obscene in that regard. (Katarina coming to mind.)

Less vision also gave junglers so much more power. It seems that it's a lot of small things piling together to result in a really fast paced snowball. No wonder the few pro games I've seen are the typical 1-4 kills by minute 30. Anything more than that and the game's done.

I think Riot has to make a really in depth look at pacing instead of these fragmented changes. Things seem as narrow minded as ever, with very little long term planning.

Inari Fox OrrionApr 26, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QPFp01vN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-25T19:56:25.622+0000)

Most of the time it boils down to their jungler outclassing ours and that goes way out of control.

Lane skill match up only applies up to a point. That point has also been made smaller compared to previous metas that I've got to experience. (weren't around for S5+6)

I remember when the Jayce vs Riven lane was considered a skill match up. And you could still play it out as Jayce while 0-2. You could still play it out as Riven while 0-2. Now both of them with stomp the ground of each other with that score.

Back in season 3 I could play from behind with some comfort and remedy a mistake. This seems to be really hard right now. Some reworks are also really obscene in that regard. (Katarina coming to mind.)

Less vision also gave junglers so much more power. It seems that it's a lot of small things piling together to result in a really fast paced snowball. No wonder the few pro games I've seen are the typical 1-4 kills by minute 30. Anything more than that and the game's done.

I think Riot has to make a really in depth look at pacing instead of these fragmented changes. Things seem as narrow minded as ever, with very little long term planning.

Part of the bitter irony is that people liked the older, less snowball-oriented meta because it meant more, and longer, teamfights with more to them instead of a forfeit by 20 because they have 5 kills on you and there's no hope to come back from it.

Fed by Snu SnuApr 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Part of the bitter irony is that people liked the older, less snowball-oriented meta because it meant more, and longer, teamfights with more to them instead of a forfeit by 20 because they have 5 kills on you and there's no hope to come back from it.

Well, people don't like losing control completely. Who would have thunk it! :D

It wasn't a stroll in the park to do the turnaround either, it was just...possible. I've had some comebacks in the current state of the game, but they seem to be more because the other team just stopped doing anything meaningful instead of my own team getting their act together.

And as far as Riot's decision to head towards a faster paced game, I only have to tell them this: Which game is doing better? HotS or Dota 2? This genre became great because it combined action with strategic depth. Anyone who flings away either is bound to fail.

On a different note, regarding MMR: I'm currently trying to recuperate from a 7 losses streak, after maintaining a 75% win ratio over 30 games and getting to platinum within a reasonable pace of what I consider my game understanding to be. Lots of flame being thrown around, lots of everything, after having very friendly, cooperative and talkative teammates in the past. It is almost as if I changed servers.

Michael702Apr 25, 201718 votes

Riot wanted a fast-paced snowbally game. They stated as much at the beginning of the season. But they should have reduced the FF time to 15m or so. 20m is just too long. Especially when you consider that the 1st vote always fails. So you're looking at a minimum of 23m.

Riot's matchmaking algorithm is bad. IDK who designed it but it's awful. Instead of matching you with others in your division, they create teams based on a hidden nonsensical number called MMR. So while both teams will have about the same MMR, the individual MMR will vary greatly. This becomes a serious problem when most of your team's MMR is in a non-carry role and most of their team's MMR is in a carry role. The game is over before it even began.

NiceTryViApr 26, 20176 votes

Agreed. I sometimes play games where the ranks don't even make sense, like low silvers being pitted against mid golds, or a silver facing a plat player. If they can't queue together, why do they have to play *against * each other? Hidden MMR is stupid, matchmake with what people can see. Either make MMR visible, or make the current ranks what matchmaking is based off of.

DeathBurstApr 26, 20171 votes

There are a lot of subtle things at play here...

If you see people Ranked low Silver versus Mid Gold in the Normal Queue, that doesn't mean anything. People don't play the same way in both queues, and it's perfectly logical that the Rank they got in one queue doesn't influence their match-making in the other.
If it happens in Ranked, it means that the low Silver has a much better MMR than he should (or the Gold a much worse). It can happen due to the start-of-season reset if you don't play for a period of time after the reset, for instance. It can appear unfair, but it is still less unfair to match people according to MMR than to match them according to Rank that do not really reflect their skills.
If they can't queue together, why can they be in the same match together is a very good point, but the logical answer is not that that match-making should follow Divisions, it's the other way around: queuing restrictions should be based on MMR instead. The goal of queuing restrictions is that you don't want a very good player queuing with much lower players and stomping the game, ruining it for the enemy team. That should be measured with MMR, not current Ranking.
Matchmake with what people can't see isn't really a necessity, but it has one nice effect: it appears more fair, even if it doesn't change anything in practice, so people feel better.

Overall, the match-making system is already the best it can be, but I agree that MMR should be visible, to decrease complaints from players and to base queuing restrictions on it.

ThilmerApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Riot wanted a fast-paced snowbally game. They stated as much at the beginning of the season. But they should have reduced the FF time to 15m or so. 20m is just too long. Especially when you consider that the 1st vote always fails. So you're looking at a minimum of 23m.

Surrender at 20 is currently stupid since one of the teams will be destroying and inhibitor at 17-18.

Bard Blyat BardApr 26, 20173 votes

The MMR is, as said, bogus. It's useless. My personal rating, the MMR, goes up and down depending on how good everyone else is (!). When 80% of my "team" are spazzs, I lose rating. Now imagine this bullshit going on for 1,000 games. Now imagine 1,000 games of leavers, 4-premade vs 3-premade and a 2-premade and other uncalculatable situations.

Now imagine all that fucking shit above for 10 players. And then try to find a "match". Of course, a player has X MMR. But he's a boosted bonobo. And that guy with the low MMR barely plays queue X and is in fact awesome.

On my other account, I am supposed to be the saviour apparently. 4 stupid trash noobs and me running around 23/2/0 as Teemo. The enemy is trash, but not as much trash as my noobs, so they slowly bleed me out, because I can not be everywhere (even though OmegaSquad Teemo says so). Of course it might be a match MMR wise of 800 vs 820, but this is being achieved by going this retarded way:

5 random guys / 5 = Team 1 5 random guys / 5 = Team 2

Random means everything inbetween of 800 and 2,xxx. Imagine you watch a box fight at the Madison Square Garden und suddenly two bad boxers have to compete against a single pro. Is it fair for the pro to be 1vs2 or for the bad boxers because they get KOed easily? But bascially, it's a RIOT LOGIC (TM) match of perfect fun and balance (TM).

DeathBurstApr 26, 20171 votes

Riot wanted a slightly faster-paced game where you don't waste your time for 15 minutes, when you already know at 20:00 what team will win but it takes them until 35:00 to close the game. That's a subtle but very important nuance compared to "fast-paced snowbally games"....

And MMR is much more 'sensical' than Division. You are purposefully placed in a lower Division than you actually deserve at the beginning of a season so that you can climb over the course of the season to where you actually belong. So if they matched you according to your Division, match-making would be even less accurate. And they try to equalize MMR between the two teams, but they ALSO try to get people from roughly the same MMR inside a team. They don't match someone at 800 and 1200 versus two other guys at 1000 and 100O, that's not true.

Michael702Apr 26, 20171 votes

Yeah, they try to make sure that both teams have someone with the same MMR. But when it's your support that has 1200 and their Katarina mid that has 1200, you're in for a rough game. It would be much better if they just matched people in the same division +/- 1 if need be.

DeathBurstApr 27, 20171 votes

In your example, what happens if it's your Mid who is -1 division and their Kata +1 division? You're in for a rough time just as much, if not even more. It's not a problem of MMR versus Division. It's a problem of finding enough people with the same rating, whatever the rating you want to use. Except that MMR is a more accurate representation of someone's skills, so it's a better rating to use for matchmaking than Division.

But Riot already do what you want, "they just match people in the same [MMR], +/-[XX] if need be."

Michael702Apr 27, 20171 votes

In my example, my mid is a gold 3 and their mid is a plat 2. I would much rather have +/- 1 division. And if you think I'm pulling this scenario out of my arse, I'll be happy to link several match histories.

VexingRavenApr 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Riot wanted a fast-paced snowbally game. They stated as much at the beginning of the season. But they should have reduced the FF time to 15m or so. 20m is just too long. Especially when you consider that the 1st vote always fails. So you're looking at a minimum of 23m.

And Riot were the only people that wanted that. I've heard nothing but complaints about how much faster and more snowbally the game is. I don't understand why they are so dead-set on that. I think the fact they we are even considering a 15m surrender timer should be a huge red flag to Riot that they need to turn the game the heck around.

DunkinNoobsApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And Riot were the only people that wanted that. I've heard nothing but complaints about how much faster and more snowbally the game is.

No shit; people who aren't unhappy don't complain. And there were definitely people complaining in season 5 about how games were too long, early game champs were worthless, and late game champs like Veigar and Vayne were busted as fuck since every game went to late game.

Teridax68Apr 26, 20179 votes

Unpopular opinion here: I don't think it's ever truly healthy in a PvP game to have players gain raw power by winning fights. The very act of doing so makes comebacks less likely, because you're going to have to face up against the person who beat you, only now the lead they have over you is even wider. This is particularly true in the current state of the game, where a lead of one or two kills can snowball an entire lane, which can then decide the outcome of the whole match. Even when League isn't as snowbally, however, trying to come back from a losing lane is still an unpleasant and stressful experience.

A major issue with snowballing right now is that Riot's been trying to compress into 20-30 minutes matches that were originally designed to take 30-45 minutes on average, and doing so by just accelerating the rate at which leads are made without altering their weight. Currently, being ahead one or two items over your opponent can mean having practically double their power, especially in the game's early stages: in more stretched-out games, where items would take longer to accrue, that would be fine, but at the game's current speed, gaining ~70 AD over your opponent, or the equivalent for any other class, during the laning phase, means you're bound to crush them without having to make all that much effort. Marksmen are especially large culprits, because their late-game curve has been shortened in such a way that they snowball like crazy off of even the slightest lead, and the combination of their AD, crit and life steal means that they become nigh-unkillable murder machines in mid game teamfights if they complete their build too quickly.

One possible alternative could simply be to reduce stats across the board, or shift them onto levels: in such a scenario, gaining a full item over you opponent wouldn't create such a rift in statistical power, even if it would still hurt. Another could instead be to massively increase shutdown gold bounties, which would alllow for more comeback potential while keeping games at a quicker pace (there'd risk being a lot of flip-flopping, though). Personally, I think it might be better to shift leads onto permanent objective captures: while towers feel pretty weak now, creating an environment in which they'd fall faster overall, while still allowing the losing team to farm and move a little farther out from their base without it being considered overextending, would allow games to remain fast-paced, while also making for fairer fights. Since tower captures are essential to winning the game, but have no impact on most combat situations, it would allow teams to make major progress without crushing as hard in teamfights.

Chief MayonnaiseApr 26, 20174 votes

I gotta disagree with the portion about Marksman. If anything, marksman are the victims of this snowball meta. Marksman are naturally not going to do well in snowball situations because they don't hit their powerspike as soon as other classes. So as soon as other lanes start snowballing the game, they won't really be able to stop them until they get 3 or so items. By that time, the game is usually decided. The only reason they seem strong right now is because of how broken BOTRK is along with lucian becoming dominant again.

Teridax68Apr 26, 20176 votes

I feel what you described, i.e. marksmen not reaching their powerspikes in time to be able to survive the other lanes at all, would also be a consequence of them snowballing, specifically when they fall behind: currently, it's not uncommon for the winning marksman to emerge from bot lane with one or two full items plus boots, whereas the losing marksman is still struggling to upgrade or even reach their first B. F. Sword. Effectively, one side can already teamfight quite well, whereas the other may struggle to even survive, which is why bot lane tends to snowball even harder than most other lanes, and also ends up having the largest impact upon how the rest of the match plays out. For sure, there's still the unpleasant situation where bot lane gets 4-man ganked and one side gets completely crushed with little to no possibility for retaliation, but if bot lane wins early and starts rotating mid, the pressure they put is so intense that it can lead to their team quickly winning the mid game as well, as they make a huge difference in teamfights even at the 15-minute mark, whereas previously they had to wait about 25-30 minutes to come online.

SalsonApr 26, 20173 votes

"I don't think it's ever truly healthy in a PvP game to have players gain raw power by winning fights. " While I agree it's not healthy, it's the most satisfying thing in the game, hell maybe even gaming in general. Lack of it makes HotS a tier 2 game to LoL and DotA. Why do u think the Overwatch hype died down and people came back to LoL after quiting, it's just not as fun.

Teridax68Apr 26, 20172 votes

I think the main reason behind HotS's lower player count is that it's a late entry into a market already dominated by two other high-commitment games, each with years' worth of preexisting content, and even so the game is doing quite well. Overwatch is, similarly, extremely popular still, as was/is TF2 before it. Also worth noting is that HotS does offer raw power for winning fights, as getting kills contributes experience to your whole team, so really, victory-based power isn't really at all relevant to the success of those games (if it were, Dota 2, which is significantly snowballier than LoL, would be the more popular game).

Fed by Snu SnuApr 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

(if it were, Dota 2, which is significantly snowballier than LoL, would be the more popular game).

Dota 2 is not snowballier than LoL. Both teams have much more control of what to contest for much longer than LoL.

If it were, you wouldn't have gold priority and each role functioning perfectly fine with different amount of items.

In LoL, every role requires item investment and without them is incapable of influencing the game. We've had so many seasons of Riot trying to make supports something more than ward slaves who have no other meaningful contribution and the only solution they could come up with was to give them alternative gold gains and items that are so cost effective when taking in account their actives that it's insane.

Inari Fox OrrionApr 26, 20172 votes

I've played DotA2, and it actually does feel more snowball-oriented than League. I can't put into words how many times I've asked in team chat "Anyone wish there was a surrender option?" and gotten 'Yes' in response.

Ever try to 1v2 a 13/5 Slark? You can't, really, whereas in League you can. The reason it doesn't feel so snowball-y, however, is because towers take a good while to kill even for the 200-damage Slark.

As for LoL being item-based and DotA2 being hero-based, that's correct; LoL has champions that function well without items ( Leona ) but a majority of the carries are item-based.

In DotA2, Drow (for example) can still slow/kill easily without any items, with purely levels, because of her passive. The same would go for Mirana or Luna, albeit with a bit of difficulty. (Meanwhile, Caitlyn without item 3031 tickles a bit!)

Both of these games are so complex that even one very smart person can't decode all the systems involved, which is why there's always more than one developer and why the original DotA mod was horridly unbalanced but fun. (HELICOPTER D Jax ! PENTAKILL! 8====D to 8=====D! Wasn't here back then as I started 8mo ago, but the Youtube videos of that are just fucking awesome/funny.)

SalsonApr 26, 20172 votes

I think the main difference between League and DotA is League having for all intents and purposes 5 carry roles. The players are given an option of choosing and a team of Riven LeeSin Ahri Vayne is nothing out of the ordinary. If you have one game where one player starts with half an income( DotA courier ), and a game where a Support can eather 1v2 the enemy lane the result seems simple.

HalcyonDwellerApr 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

One possible alternative could simply be to reduce stats across the board, or shift them onto levels: in such a scenario, gaining a full item over you opponent wouldn't create such a rift in statistical power, even if it would still hurt.

I really like this idea, it seems to be an option within Riot's reach too, since they already tried it with lethality. I guess we will have to see if this catches on.

Another could instead be to massively increase shutdown gold bounties, which would allow for more comeback potential while keeping games at a quicker pace (there'd risk being a lot of flip-flopping, though).

This might not work too well, the rubber-banding might give a lot of people metaphorical whiplash. I think it would be better to reduce the leads gained, possibly like how you suggested in the first quote above. Increasing rewards of any kind just lead to more abrupt jumps in power and potential for further unbalanced results.

Personally, I think it might be better to shift leads onto permanent objective captures: while towers feel pretty weak now, creating an environment in which they'd fall faster overall, while still allowing the losing team to farm and move a little farther out from their base without it being considered overextending, would allow games to remain fast-paced, while also making for fairer fights. Since tower captures are essential to winning the game, but have no impact on most combat situations, it would allow teams to make major progress without crushing as hard in teamfights.

So would towers get easier to kill? They are already pretty useless / easy to dive. I understand that this would speed up the pace of the game, but at least in lower levels of play (or in casual play) people want Towers to be a bastion of safety. Am I correct in thinking this change would do the opposite?

Teridax68Apr 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This might not work too well, the rubber-banding might give a lot of people metaphorical whiplash. I think it would be better to reduce the leads gained, possibly like how you suggested in the first quote above. Increasing rewards of any kind just lead to more abrupt jumps in power and potential for further unbalanced results.

This is true, the rubber-banding might end up leading to really unstable mid and late games, so increasing shutdown gold might not be the best, but I don't think it would be good to purely reduce leads in the game's current state, as that would stretch out games past their intended window. Ultimately, the ideal goal here is to have a game that feels fair, but also ends within 30 minutes on average, and currently the tradeoff has been that Riot's method of compressing match durations has made them too one-sided as a result. I'd much rather have a game that didn't rely on snowballing off of leads as hard to end, but that might need deeper changes to happen.

{quoted}

So would towers get easier to kill? They are already pretty useless / easy to dive. I understand that this would speed up the pace of the game, but at least in lower levels of play (or in casual play) people want Towers to be a bastion of safety. Am I correct in thinking this change would do the opposite?

I think towers in general need a rework, and the idea is to have them fall about as quickly as they do now, though without having to rely on drastic stat leads in order to do so. Outer turrets should still provide a measure of safety in the laning phase, but I think any tower beyond that shouldn't offer protection to players, which is why them being modeled as damaging turrets is a mistake (they already don't offer much in the way of real protection in practice).

HalcyonDwellerApr 27, 20172 votes

OK I see what you mean. I like your ideas!

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

option paralysisApr 25, 20175 votes

I saw a lot of "matchmaking is garbage" threads, including mine over the last few months, but then in patch notes you see a check mark on both q's. For riot, everything is ok. xD

But it's not, it's fucking garbage. I remember having a 7 game win streak from d4 to d3... then you can imagine what came after that, a 7 game loss streak. Woopty dooo, the system wants dat sweet 50% win rate. I still had a 60% win rate when I reached high d2, then I lost like 15-20 games in a row, where I couldn't do anything to win, whether half the team was autofilled and/or mmr difference was enormous. And guess what my win rate is now, still 52%, but getting close to 50%. I didn't play ranked for a month and I'm still fucking tilted.

Fuck matchmaking and fuck autofill.

OlyanderApr 25, 20174 votes

For feedback regarding this ridiculous problem, MMR matches are skewed... You either get massive wins or massive losses...consecutively....sometimes 5-7 games in a row. It just doesn't make ANY sense for games to be generated this way. It used to be much much better in season 3. Back then, it seemed to balance as you went. 2 wins...1 loss... 2 losses...1 win.... the matches were longer, and closer.... Once you got away from the group of players that throw games at the end by dying in bronze situations, you could really evaluate your skillsets. Now, you have players on the opposing team who greatly outmatch yours or vice versa. It's almost like you have to time your losing streaks so you can get a winning streak for your promotions... its absolutely retarded.

Inari Fox OrrionApr 26, 20174 votes

I had a 30 loss-streak in ranked. Something like that should very well be statistically impossible.

Votable JesterApr 26, 20172 votes

Nah, even assuming that each game has no impact on the next (if anything, I think you'd do worse after consecutive losses), it is possible.

There's a whole 0.0000000931% chance of that happening by chance. That's super possible. :P

Inari Fox OrrionApr 26, 20171 votes

If you actually did the math for that, you're fucking awesome.

Edit: Good God, you did.

Votable JesterApr 27, 20171 votes

I mean it's just 0.5^30.

Inari Fox OrrionApr 27, 20171 votes

It's still effort.

DeathBurstApr 26, 20173 votes

Riot tries to make matches as little one-sided as they can (and contrary to what your wrote then crossed over, they absolutely do NOT try to end win-streak, see: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1uczwyqT-how-should-riot-change-the-mmrranked-system?comment=0003 ).

The problem is that, to make even matches, you need to evaluate properly the skills of the players involved. And in case you didn't notice, this is fucking hard to do.

What can Riot do if a Riven one-trick with a 55% winrate suddenly decides to main Camille instead? He will be matched against people as good as he was on Riven, and he will get stomped. What can Riot do if a one-trick Singed can't play it because it was banned? It's not exactly as if you could transpose your knowledge of Singed to any other Tank toplane. What happens when you get auto-filled? What happens if a Diamond player in SoloQ that only uses Normals to train new Champs suddenly decide to play his main in Normals?

There are literally dozens of situations like that where Riot just can't do anything about it and that will result in one-sided matches. They don't like it! They do their best so that it doesn't happen, like, for real. It's just fucking hard.

Fed by Snu SnuApr 25, 20172 votes

I have noticed the huge mmr flunctuations as well.

Not unusual to have all the way down to Gold II and all the way up to Plat I, within the same teams.

Makes platinum a new kind of hell than it already was.

Weasel KenseiApr 25, 20172 votes

I have a 63% win rate on Morgana at the moment...

Some assclown dipshits looked me up on op.gg cause I didnt give them the tank support they wanted so they could find something to bitch at me about.

They started giving me a huge ton of shit because I have attack speed reds on with Morg sup. They start going "AD MORG" "GG OMG AD MORG" "GG" "GG" "GG" "GG." This is my teammates... I told them "If you can see my runes, cant you see my win %? STFU and focus on your sht."

So of course you know what happened with me having atk speed reds on Morg sup... we lost... no wait, WE WON! I got 2/4/18, in a 38/36/37 match and an S- on Morg.

Why did I type all that?

Rito wont fix these one sided stomps because they do it on purpose. For every match thats close I think "OK thats what match making should look like." Then for every match that is an ROFL stomp where we win way too easy I know Im going to have to support a Gangplank ADC, or a Soraka jungler, or my favorite BS troll nonsense so far...

Full tank Veigar

Yeah. Had an assclown on my team building full tank Vig. mid. We lost. I mean at one point they picked up in damage, but well after they fed an enemy Yasuo and that Yasuo went ham on the rest of it making any contribution too damn late.

So where did tank vig come from? Ritos match making forcing a 50% win rate.

Its my belief that Ritos match making actively tries to stop winning streaks by injecting trolls, toxic ragers, and morons into your games. Those onesided stomps are part of this match making scheme. They match up people winning with people losing against people winning... till they decide to turn the tables and match up the previous winners with people on a losing streak.

So that Morg match I mentioned, that was supposed to be a loss... One of those people in the lobby was threatening to run down mid if anyone picked certain champions... The other one giving me shit went 3/11/9. Rito gave me the shittest odds they could with toxic ragers on my team that threaten to feed based on allied champ picks, and a feeder, while still having the MMRs be close enough to make it not a total joke.

Why do this? Some people want to climb as high as they can; for some that stops at gold for the rewards. Riot, like any F2P game company, wants you playing. If youre not playing youre not invested. If youre not invested, youre less likely to spend $$$.

Think of it like this:

Youre in a van on a road trip. The van was provided for free, along with gas and meals. But while driving youre subjected to advertisements. The more advertisements you see the more likely you are to buy one of those things you see. Those ads are provided by the same people who provide the van... Dont act surprised when the road trip takes 3 times longer than you expected because of all sorts of mysterious roadblocks and strange mechanical failures. Thats all to increase the ad time. They want you to stay in that van as long as possible.

TLDR; Rito creates lopsided ROFL stomps as part of their forced 50% winrate match making system. Dont expect them to fix a system they put in place thats part of their method of $$$ making.

Lux Is Mai WaifuApr 26, 20171 votes

Full tank or AP bruiser veig seems like a somewhat reasonable idea because he gets passive AP and his ult scales off of his opponent.

Weasel KenseiApr 26, 20171 votes

Sure it sounds like maybe a thing... you know except rushing item 1031 item 1011 meant they ran out of mana, and its clearly something they just "decided to do" in a ranked match and they fed and we got shit on by the Yasuo they fed...

In practice you do what tho? Hurt people a little bit? Have one semi-unreliable CC ability? Why not just build him in such a manner that he can delete people like he can do when you build him properly. I accept off-meta builds and ideas, but shit like this isnt really anything other than goofing off.

Alex h8721Apr 26, 20171 votes

AP bruiser veigs CAN work, but you don't build like a toplane nautilus, moreso item 3027 > item 3151 boots situational but vs a yasuo item 3047 , item 3157 item 3143 and finish off w/ item 3026 , you've got to build some mana sustain or you will be oom damn near the whole match, and building some AP/Pen is helpful, hence the ROA rush, plus roa and liandrys together give 800 hp (when rod is fully stacked).

This build CAN work because of His stacking and building this way + item 3157 active can keep him from getting insta-bursted, squishies will still get deleted, though if the enemy team is all building MR this build would not be recommended because of the lack of Magic pen itemization, its more a build to live against an assassin heavy/carry heavy enemy team comp.

CaveslothApr 26, 20172 votes

I agree with Rito gimping you after a win 100 percent. I've given on up on ranked because one game i'll have great teammates, they cooperate and communicate with you, you win game AND its actually fun. Next game you have people play off off off meta champs and sucking up a storm or just straight initing, people yelling and being toxic and of course you lose. Its utter horseshit. Don't put me with people who DON'T want to even try just because I win a game or two.

RiskyWiskyApr 26, 20172 votes

I think the reason why we have such bad gameplay is because of the Rift Map. its too damn small. Jungler can be botlane and after like 20sec he is already toplane and you are dead. How many time do u says to yourself (jungler is not here i should be fine) and out of nowhere you get ganked.

The fact that rito is creating more and more mobile champs that can cover the map in an instant makes it so frustrating to play. If the map size is increase and added like 5-6 jungle camps each side you would be very careful not to step into their territory or atleast have some kind of stealth. in DOTA you never get ganked behind tower or tower dived. Even a FED TANK cant tower dive you in dota until late game.

With the increased size of the map, everyone can clear their wave and roam to nearby jungle camps. Most of the team fights in dota2 happen around the jungle and its so much more fun fighting there instead of a narrow lane where you can barely dodge skill or aim them.

Ahri InariApr 26, 20171 votes

I think the complete opposite, it's way too easy to comeback after playing bad with massive gold disadvantage which doesn't reward enough good players. People does mistakes, throw after throw, respawn time get longer and late game champion scale.

DunkinNoobsApr 26, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Inari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QPFp01vN,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-04-26T08:14:34.474+0000)

I think the complete opposite, it's way too easy to comeback after playing bad with massive gold disadvantage which doesn't reward enough good players.

Catchup exp in the jungle is one of the worst changes Riot ever made because it encourages mindless ganking and camping over good jungle pathing. I play farm heavy, counterjungle heavy junglers like Nidalee and Shyvana and it's disgusting how easily the enemy jungler can keep up with me in exp just by getting a couple kills even when I have double or even triple their CS. If I have 200 CS at 30 minutes and their jungler had 90, he should not be the same level as me. Ever.

Lone BladeApr 26, 20171 votes

Lol no way couple kills can equal 100cs difference in jungle camps. Stop exaggerating. And reward for getting a kill should outweigh the reward for farming camps as it takes more skill to do "mindless" ganking then just right clicking and mindlessly killing jungle camps.

KoggyStyleApr 26, 20172 votes

The season 2 jungle would have eaten you alive.

Pater GascoigneApr 26, 20171 votes

While I agree that onesided matches are not fun (and there are a lot of of them right now due to the absurd snowballing going on), it's no excuse to insult your teammates. Back when I was younger I was in a soccer team and we never blamed anyone for making mistakes that lost the game. You either win as one or lose as one. You have to remember that your other teammates are other human beings.

If I was able to look into the chatlog of my past games all I would find is : "gg"(at the end of the game), "np"(after saving someone, leashing for jungler), "gj"(if my team got first blood, we won a skirmish) , "sry"(after doing something I didn't intend to like stealing a buff) or "ty" (if someone gave me a buff, saved me, thanked me etc.). This really is all I type nowadays. With the new ping system you don't have to call for help, call a miss, call dragon, etc. You can just ping it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand why it's so difficult for some people to not be jerks.

RaiyzaApr 26, 20171 votes

Smurfing is also a problem. If you're in low gold and actually belong there, there's no way you'll lane well against a diamond/master smurf. Or the smurf jungler will completely ruin your day. Either one.

HeeroTXApr 26, 20171 votes

One addendum, I think stomps feel bad, whether you're on the losing team OR the winning team. I mean, if I'm in promos then I'm happy to win regardless, but in a regular game it's not all that great to just ROFLStomp the other team. I just feel bad for them and shake my head at the matchmaking because it just means one of us is in the wrong place (either I'm getting screwed stuck where I am or they are by being put against me).

I can't prove it, but I think the biggest problem (aside from some of the snowballing changes Riot made) is all the smurfs. I think there's WAY too many smurfs now and Riot doesn't "care" because it helps keep their numbers up. The variance between two players in mid/upper Bronze shouldn't be SO wide that one of them completely STOMPS the other. Yeah, a high elo player should be able to smash a Bronzie for 25/1 or something but even if you want to argue that a guy in mid Bronze sucks, another Bronzie shouldn't be able to exploit that to the degree that is happening often. (if that IS as possible then that's a serious issue with game balance/mechanics IMO)