"My god play a real champion"

Inari Fox Orrion·Apr 18, 2017·57 votes·4,232 views

Because apparently picking my favorite champion () and going 7/3/15 takes no skill or thought whatsoever, and by virtue of you not playing her, you have more thought into, and have more skill with, your champion than me.

...anyone else really tired of hearing this when playing any number of the "newbie" champions like Annie? Not all playstyles suit everyone, I hope they know, and it could be very possible that someone (me) adores fire warlocks with a summon spell, and therfor loves playing her more than your precious Yasuo with 'muh outplayz.'

Please stop using "play a real champion" in any argument whatsoever, since as said above they're designed with specific themes and playstyles in mind. Tis' all.

126 Comments

DeathBurstApr 18, 201746 votes

Mastering an admittedly easy to master champion is still better than being sh*t with a high-ceiling champion. What matters isn't the amount of work you put into it, but the results you can achieve with it.

I'd go even as far as saying that if you can get the same results with less work, that's what you should do. If you decided to handicap yourself by playing Yasuo or Azir or whatever, you don't get to belittle me because I'm playing Garen, to the contrary. You're the one being stupid by aiming too high. I know what I'm capable of, and I win and climb with it, while you waste your time whining.

SEKAIApr 18, 201713 votes

{quoted}

Mastering an admittedly easy to master champion is still better than being sh*t with a high-ceiling champion. What matters isn't the amount of work you put into it, but the results you can achieve with it.

I'd go even as far as saying that if you can get the same results with less work, that's what you should do. If you decided to handicap yourself by playing Yasuo or Azir or whatever, you don't get to belittle me because I'm playing Garen, to the contrary. You're the one being stupid by aiming too high. I know what I'm capable of, and I win and climb with it, while you waste your time whining.

Do note, in high elo, the "easy" champions become the hard ones. Since once you're at the stage to not being handicapped by your own lack of skills, the champs themselves become your new handicap, which means, mechanically 1 dimensional champs in a high skill environment is the same as offering to ban one of your arms in a high class martial art tournament.

Not only that, Riot doesn't seem to know how to balance between raw power and utility too, in fact a lot of times they don't seem to consider utility a part of the power budget at all and just balance everyone in terms of raw fat stats. The result is that "hard" champs are almost always a straight upgrade from the "easy" champ (assuming no blatant OP shit in bound), as long as the player is capable enough. This is a fundamental design and balance flaw in this game, I suppose.

DeathBurstApr 18, 20171 votes

There are plenty of Annie and Garen players at least until high-Plat and Diamond, and Singed in mid-Diamond. I'm not too worried about the champions becoming the new handicap soon.

MelvearApr 18, 20175 votes

{quoted}

There are plenty of Annie and Garen players at least until high-Plat and Diamond, and Singed in mid-Diamond. I'm not too worried about the champions becoming the new handicap soon.

It's a handicap because you're predictable. Annie's going to tibber stun as many people as she can, Amumu's going to either flash ulti or Q ulti to initiate, Garen's going to ran at you and hit you with his sword. There's no real subtlety to them. It doesn't mean that they are bad, but really good players are going to play around your mechanics. It's much harder to play around Lee Sin's mechanics or Azir's.

That being said, anyone who uses the phrase "play a real champ" is a chump and should be ignored.

JuhnChanApr 18, 20172 votes

I thought Singed is wreaking havoc in even challenger and LCK right now.

crippler38Apr 19, 20172 votes

I thought singed's main thing is he has at most 3 mechanics in his kit (slow, flip positioning, root) that are more than just walking and toggling on abilities.

I swear singed feels like he's playing a different game from everyone else, and I find that hilarious.

Titanium70Apr 19, 20172 votes

All this hard vs easy is kinda BS anyway if you ask me.

Sure there are easy Champs - but that always works both ways. Annie is easy - yes. For the one playing her BUT ALSO for the one playing against her!!! She is just before 6 has Ignite and Flash up? Guess what could possibly happen if you keep hanging around on Lane with 50%HP?

Surprise... she will flash into your face the second the last creep she needed dies!

And most 'easy' Camps work exactly like this - MASTERING them means to make your obvious play as consistent and impactfull as possible, hide them, decieve your opponents and that is... HARD to do!

iLLpApr 18, 201729 votes

{quoted}

Because apparently picking my favorite champion () and going 7/3/15 takes no skill or thought whatsoever,

i meaaaan lets be real here.

you can just walk up to an enemy team and drop your bear for free for as long as you sit on your stun. Then if you die your bear is more than likely going to kill someone.

It Hertz When IPApr 18, 20174 votes

She also doesn't have any mobility outside of Flash and Protobelt. Vision control and positioning go a long way towards invalidating Annie's existence, and if lower ELOs (my people :'( ) ever learned to ward and not clump up, Annie'd be far less of an issue.

Baron of BreadApr 18, 20174 votes

Assuming they don't have anyone with an ability that has a decent amount of range, then yes you can just walk up and bear them for free. However, since that isn't the case most of the time you usually have to use flash to accomplish things.

FooDangApr 18, 201714 votes

She is a newbie champ. Funny you bring up Yasuo because the other day I had a bronze 1 Annie vs a plat 4 yasuo mid. Yasuo destroyed Annie lane phase. When mid game came around Annie started 1v1 people. (AKA sit in a bush with stun Tibbers) and actually contributed to the game. After some items she started getting ballzy and Flash Tibbers stun owning people.

I never make fun of peoples champions. Pick whoever you want, thats what they are there for, to be played. But she is a newb champ for the record.

DKM BismarckApr 18, 20172 votes

Some champs have to be easy, champs that are easy are limited the higher you go but they are great for improving general game knowledge

RenownedWheat42Apr 18, 20178 votes

Taliyah Ryze Rumble Sivir Alistar Nautilus Graves Hecarim MasterYi Evelynn Amumu Ivern Kayle Yasuo Garen

All champs I've used and still been told to "Play a real champ."

When people say that, it's really just them on tilt, trying to justify their deaths because "the champ you're playing takes no skill." Senseless whining.

AzµlApr 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

All champs I've used and still been told to "Play a real champ."

When people say that, it's really just them on tilt, trying to justify their deaths because "the champ you're playing takes no skill." Senseless whining.

Let's be honest Ryze,Amumu,Master Yi,Evelynn,And Ivern don't take a lot of skill,Considering 3 of them are champs made for new players.

RevaliApr 18, 201710 votes

Excuse me what, ivern for new players? Are you insane?

SEKAIApr 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Excuse me what, ivern for new players? Are you insane?

They also said that Eve is for new players. Idk, given her (should we say) wacky perma-stealth mechanics and her iffy balance state, I sincerely disagree.

Wacky9Apr 18, 20172 votes

IVERN is not easy to play. There is a major skill gap when it comes to Ivern. Ivern's mechanics and combos are easy to learn, but actually being good at him takes a lot of skill.

Ariel the CruelApr 18, 20172 votes

I could see Ivern, actually. You don't see a lot of invades and counter-jungling at lower elo. Plus, his clears and ganks are pretty straight forward (don't even have to fight camps).

A lot of macro level elements you have to manage with him (largely the whole "enchanter in jungle" and "brush OP" things). But since those don't come into play often in the lvl0-silver range, I could see him being a "baby's first jungler."

Warwaick is still a better pick though. Since his jungling patterns are actually. . . Normal. (>_>)

Lucario5623Apr 19, 20173 votes

He said 3 of them are. Read the sentence again.

SEKAIApr 18, 20173 votes

{quoted}

All champs I've used and still been told to "Play a real champ."

When people say that, it's really just them on tilt, trying to justify their deaths because "the champ you're playing takes no skill." Senseless whining.

No Urgot ? You haven't played a real champ at all!

Chillbo SwagginzApr 18, 20176 votes

getting tibbers to land on some one at the right time is actually hard asf and crucial if you miss that more than a few times you can throw game depending on how your team is playing its the same with fizz ult whenever I make this point i get laughed at but I know its true

ccseancc143Apr 18, 20179 votes

Bruh you press R, its not that hard. Fizz Ult is 1000x harder to land then Annie ult lol.

MagikarpIsBossApr 18, 20172 votes

Annie ult is point and click and instant casting ability. There so no time for the enemies to actually react to it because it happens instantly. If you miss this ability, I have no idea what is wrong with you, but its probably something really bad.

Also, Fizz ult is completely different. Especially after the nerfs to his ulti, it can near miss people so many times. While it isnt hard to hit most of the time, it is actually possible to miss unlike annie ult. Fizz ult has a travel time and is a skill shot, so its much different from an annie point an click stun. I have no idea why you think annies is hard to land.

Chillbo SwagginzApr 19, 20172 votes

its because of the range there is no indication of the range so when an enemy is moving and your trying to cast it on them you have no idea whether or not where you are pointing the ult on them whether tibbers is going to instantly appear or whether annie will take the time to walk over there and then cast it which if she does the enemy will have moved and tibbers will not appear on top of them and stun which will have wasted the ult because you wont get a kill with it

SweedishGunnerApr 18, 20175 votes

Annie is a champion that manages to make me want to pick my eyes out with forks when I'm playing against and when I'm playing as her.

DeathBot666Apr 18, 20175 votes

Play a real champion. Annie is clearly a glitch and isn't supposed to be in the game, so therefore isn't a real champion.

Mecha MaIphiteApr 18, 20173 votes

I just tell them to try it out, because clearly whatever they're playing is too hard for them.

NotSpecialDudeApr 18, 20173 votes

As someone who plays Annie quite a bit, I do have a bit of a bias. That said, I genuinely advocate for champions with simpler kits as they have several advantages that are unsung by the majority.

1.) They are provide flexibility. In this autofill age and in the even worse season 1-5 draft days, you needed to have a champion for each role you could play. These low skill floor champs allow for flexibility without requiring too much investment.

2.) The are very consistent in their match ups. Part of the reason I dislike yasuo is his volatile performance in lane. He wins or loses big, with no in between. Annie on the flip side doesn't lose as hard and can still be of use. Plus she has far less disadvantageous match ups and can fit into more team comps.

3.) they allow for one to practice certain mechanics. Things like wave control, vision management, map awareness, and roaming opportunities are vital skills that must be learned through experience and practice. However, it's hard to focus on that if the basics of your champ are flawed. Champs like azir, yasuo, and akali are hard enough thanks to their kits but if you need to master your champ's basics before you could improve on these vital skills. Easy champs allow you to get to the point where you could practice these skills quicker and easier.

the weeabooApr 18, 20171 votes

All I read was that these champs are so low in skill that they fit into any comp and basically won't lose because they are versatile and have no counters.

Truly making a great argument.

NotSpecialDudeApr 18, 20174 votes

Ok, little harsh there, but I see your point and I think I should rephrase myself.

Low skill floor champs, have the advantage of simplicity and versatility making them ideal for beginners learning mechanics and avoiding being dumpstered in the lanning phase. But they do have a genuine downside. Simplicity allows predictability.

Let's look at Annie :

She's really simple to play and when done right can really burst people down with her stun/tibbers. However she has two massive weaknesses.

1.) No Mobility 2.) Short Range

Any decent Annie will build item 3117 instead of item 3020 since they need every ounce of speed they can get. Likewise all of her non-ultimate abilities do not extend beyond her auto attack range and the mage update changed it so that tibbers/stun will only 100-0 a champ if annie is already fed. If you can keep your distance from annie or play champs the have much larger ranges like Lux , Xerath , Azir , , Veigar or Morgana , it won't matter what annie does, she won't win the lanning phase.

You'd only play annie in these match-ups if your team needs an aoe engage and you can't play another champ.

Bottom line, Low skill floor champs have their uses and are as valid as high skill floor. Neither is broken or garbage.

the weeabooApr 19, 20172 votes

OR you just buy Ionians and Flash R over the wall and delete anyone with less than 3k HP or 175 MR

KakitaMikeApr 18, 20173 votes

just tell them "your god does as he pleases"

Glory ln DeathApr 18, 20173 votes

Their god is Mundo? I must have missed something in his lore update...

Im A Jayce GodApr 18, 20173 votes

I mean, annie all you gotta do is press R once you have passive.

But thats literally the same thing with most mid laners.

Syndra Annie Veigar Chogath Orianna Fizz

But unlike most of those champions, Annie's R is an AoE, imagine if Syndras or veigars ult was AOE.

THE RlVER KlNGApr 19, 20173 votes

Play who you want and don't listen to what people say on whether they are 'real' champions or not because those are dumb arguments every champion is real within the game

However I don't really have any sympathy for people who play Annie

she's dirt easy to play as and ridiculously unfun to play against

I Dont Like FunApr 18, 20172 votes

Annie is cool! And I agree with you i play Teemo and he is one of my favorite champions (I only play Teemo,Xin,Yi and I am trying to learn Morde).

It Hertz When IPApr 18, 20173 votes

Teemo's actually kinda hard.

MelvearApr 18, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xUo0xlg3,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-04-18T12:50:23.685+0000)

Teemo's actually kinda hard.

Teemo is a little bit like Lulu to me. The mastery comes from knowing just how obnoxious you can be and tilt people into losing.

yesnobananaApr 18, 20174 votes

Summoner name checks out

Prestige AkaIiApr 18, 20172 votes

The first champion i bought and mained was Akali who i thought was pretty easy to play kit wise. However, when i first started playing her was right after her biggest nerf, when her E stopped proccing her Q, when she went from pick or ban to a little over 40% winrate.

I quickly learned that Akali's kit was easy, but she was really weak at the time and the majority of lanes countered her without adding pink wards (which revealed her) to the mix. What playing such a difficult champion to survive with in lane forced me to play smart and think about what i was going to do before doing it. Playing Akali taught me how to play the game smart, how can i win this fight without dying? If i do die, is it worth it? Learning Akali when she was at her weakest point really helped me learn game knowledge.

Even now Akali isn't in the best state, but she's much better than what she was. Her biggest counters, the 75g pink ward, and lee sin E, when he could just stand in the middle of Akali's shroud, press E and revveal her, have been removed which makes her feel a lot less constricted when playing her than what it used to be.

Like you, i have a love for a champion with a kit that's considered pretty easy. From what I've seen champions with harder kits are generally given more tools they can use to outplay an enemy champion. If, for example, a fiora or riven lose to Akali, it's not necessarily because of Akali's braindead kit, they just didn't use their champion to the full potential and got outplayed. Of course there are exceptions, the last thing i want is for people to think that if they play a mechanically difficult champion they can get out of any situation and can always outplay the enemy, that isnt true. Sometimes it has to do with luck, positioning, cooldowns, practice, experience, etc.

the weeabooApr 18, 20172 votes

no. Annie takes zero skill. Play a real champion. There is literally no counter play and I hate you for liking her. How to play Annie: Press QQQQQRQW. E if you are being attacked.

Like fire mages? Play Brand. At least there's some way to avoid his damage rather than just being deleted with absolutely no way to escape.

Get stunned by Tibbers and die over and over and over. Flash R people into oblivion. Die? Tibbers just chased your ass across the map.

Literally any other champ in the game besides Master Yi takes more skill than your anti-fun champ

Legacy HydralphaApr 18, 20176 votes

If a champion exists, wouldn't that make them a real champion? 🤔I haven't had massive issues with Annie anyways provided I stay out of range.

Ariel the CruelApr 18, 20177 votes

If a champion exists, wouldn't that make them a real champion?

Careful. The forums have real problems with people who use logic. Best to keep quite and watch. Popcorn optional.

Legacy HydralphaApr 18, 20176 votes

Instructions unclear. Got 30 downvotes for trying to start discussion about Lee Sin.

KoggyStyleApr 19, 20173 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Inari Fox OrrionApr 19, 20172 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn] [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Da's some goo' popcorn. Caramel-flavoured!

OyirApr 18, 20172 votes

people who play "easy" champions still have to learn all the other, more important aspects of the game like cs, map awareness, lane control, etc. There is definitely a big difference in lane when i play against a bad annie and a good annie

ChaddyFantomeApr 18, 20172 votes

i mean...... it is ANNIE we are talkign about lets be honest here. I was expecting you to say Yasuo, tryndemere or Yi or something............_ but, Annie tho....._