Riot did you even really try making trinity into an "on-hit" item instead of a "marksmen" item?

Irelia Bot··7 votes·914 views

TL;DR How trinity could have been an item more focused for on-hit damage instead of failing at being a crit item compared to other options like PD or shiv.

Yes Riot, I heard that you tried the bow in place of something but did you really try to make it work? You did not really give us details beyond just "tried it" and "didn't like it".

2 of the 3 items that build into Trinity have clearly defined on-hit power through spellblade and rage passives so why not replace the Zeal with another on hit item in recurve bow? I have below a way that would make it work and likely feel great on champs who classically built trinity since it plays into the style that is already part of the the item with no RNGesus worshiping required.

Yes this is going to require a few changes but overall it would make it more marketable to champs who do not care for the crit chance on it since Ezreal and IRelia who both have it as basically core can not crit with their on hit ability. And this will make it more targeted towards many fighters who in turn do not care so much about building crit chance in the first place like Shyvana, Xin, Jax and yes even potentially Gnar. Lossing top lane because #crithappens really sucks and trinity being the only crit item worth getting on a lot of fighters makes it the worst culprit of RNGesus in the game.

What am I suggesting? First things first, Sheen loses the 10% CDR and instead has 5% movement speed. Lich bane and Trinity both already have movement speed so changes can be made to keep it nearly the same on lichbane. Make the 20% CDR on IBG 10% CDr and give it 5ish% movement speed, problem solved. Besides what kind of tank has issues getting CDR from other item options like SV anyways? Most still get a FH if facing AD so I see no real hate for a reduced CDR on IBG if something else good takes it's place like 5% movement speed. Most tanks will actually like having some kind of movement speed option open to them that is on a reasonably good item that is not removed once you attack something, (looking at you DMP).

Sheen (1050) + Recurve Bow (1000) + Phage (1250) + 390 = Trinity force (3690) (got to keep it divisible by 3) 15 AD 30% attack speed 250 Mana 250 Health 8% movement speed Unique passive: 30 on hit magic damage Unique passive - SPELLBLADE: After using an ability, your next basic attack (on-hit) deals 200% base attack damage as bonus physical damage. (1.5 second cooldown) Unique passive - RAGE: Basic attacks (on-hit) grant +20 flat movement speed for 2 seconds. Killing a Unit grants +60 flat movement speed instead.

What does this do? Make Trinity more clearly defined as a on hit item instead of trying to be a marksmen item but failing at being comparable with other options.

No this is not a massive buff to Irelia since she is still lossing 15 damage on E from the lack of AP compared to season 5 still and a fair amount of damage from her ult (math shown at the bottom for those who do not believe me since I know people will say I am being a bias Irelia player and I'll even add in the current rageblade damage to prove you liked facing trinity Irelia better.) But this change would still make trinity more relevant to actually build on some champs who are not named Yasuo who is the biggest beneficiary of trinity in its current state.

This would even be a reasonable indirect nerf to Yasuo's early to mid game power without hitting his kit or killing his ability to be a late game carry monster by making Yasuo no longer want trinity which in turn makes him get things like infinity edge which scales a bit better damage wise for crit champs. Instead he should be focused on building crit instead of on hit which will take longer to scale up but also be stronger in the long run. He would jsut as easily benefit from building Infinity edge currently since he can get Shiv or PD to get 30% more crit and max out his crit because of his passive.

WARNING MATH BELOW

Irelia with season 5 trinity, season 6 trinity, rageblade season 6 and on hit suggested change. Will be based on level 11 in a fight lasting 10 seconds with 29% attack speed runes and no added AD or AP from runes and masteries. This is just an example of what kind of damage might be seen if used to perfections before damage reductions are applied.

Season 5 trinity ((.665(1+ .29+.32+.3))(91+30)1.110 + (((.665(1+ .29+.32+.3)))675 + ((9126))) + (160+.530)* 2 +(480 +230 + 2.430) + 20 1.270151211.110 + (((.665(1+ .29+.32+.3)))756 + 1826 + 175*2 + 480 + 60 + 72 + 20 4336.13715

Season 6 (live trinity) ((.665(1+ .29+.32+.15))(91+25)1.210 + (((.665(1+ .29+.32+.15))) 675 + ((9126))) + (160+.50)* 2 +(480 +20 + 2.425) + 20 1.1704 + 1261.210 + 1.1704675 + 182*6 + 320 + 480 + 60 + 20 4011.8504

Current Rageblade build on live when fully stacked just for reference as to what is currently being built in place of trinity and how good it is damage wise .665(1+.29+.32 + .64)(91+54+20+.1554+.07572)10 + .665(1+.29+.32 + .64)756 + (160+.572)2 + 480 + 2.454+272 4510.11875

This is for a grand total of 2500 gold so getting it by 10 minutes is easy as hell. that is 65.7% the cost of trinity for more damage overall.

Reminder that Irelia does heal more from her ult due to higher damage with rageblade and increased number of autos which in turn more then makes up for the lack of any health on rageblade while in a fight.

proposed changes to trinity being on-hit instead of crit. ((.665(1+ .29+.32+.30))(91+15+30)1.010 + (((.665(1+ .29+.32+.30))) 675 + ((9126))) + (160+.50)* 2 +(480 +20 + 2.415) + 20 1.2701514610 + 1.27015675 + 182*6 + 320 + 480 + 36 + 20 4373.9865 Less healing from ult on this then other versions of trinity but more damage on auto attacks for slightly higher damage overall. It is now the go to on hit item and it would be best for mainly fighters and a couple of AD casters like Ezreal. ANd if we are being honest the only ADCs who would have gotten trinity in the first place is Ezreal, Kog, Lucian, vayne and Corki. The rest are more likely to build a standard Infinty edge crit build since they lack the short cooldowns for spellblade procs or get more from 70 AD then then 200% on hit base AD.

As it stands no one seems to really benefit from Trinity outside of Yasuo. Ezreal can make it "work" at the expense of better item options then Esence Reaver but overall he seems to have taken a hit with the most recent patch since he didn't benefit form the lost 30 AP, 3% movement speed and 15 AS more then the gained 10% Crit chance and 10% CDR.

7 Comments

Rebonack4 votes

According to Riot, champions who like Trinity don't auto-attack often enough to make lots of IAS and an OnHit 'feel good'.

That sounds suspiciously like horseshit to me, given that two of the poster-children for Trinity are KogMaw and Irelia, both of whom love OnHit effects. Evelynn JarvanIV XinZhao and MonkeyKing can all take advantage of it as well due to their in-kit attack speed.

And of course Jax loves him some sustained damage.

The only guy I can think of who wouldn't be terribly keen on attack speed for Trinity is Ezreal.

I would love it if Riot explained to us which staple Trinity users don't make good use of attack speed and OnHit, because I'm honestly drawing a blank here.

Irelia Bot3 votes

{quoted}

According to Riot, champions who like Trinity don't auto-attack often enough to make lots of IAS and an OnHit 'feel good'.

That sounds suspiciously like horseshit to me, given that two of the poster-children for Trinity are KogMaw and Irelia, both of whom love OnHit effects. Evelynn JarvanIV XinZhao and MonkeyKing can all take advantage of it as well due to their in-kit attack speed.

And of course Jax loves him some sustained damage.

The only guy I can think of who wouldn't be terribly keen on attack speed for Trinity is Ezreal.

I would love it if Riot explained to us which staple Trinity users don't make good use of attack speed and OnHit, because I'm honestly drawing a blank here.

that is basically the abridged version of what I am saying. Overall Trinity has been used by champions who first of all like the spellblade procs and second of all have enough use of usually attack sped and the AD and didn't care one bit about the 10% crit chance in most cases since it is completely unreliable. The health and Mana were also not one but two cherries on top. Everythign else was overall useful but now it literally seems like only Yasuo is getting it first over other options.

But if they took the suggestions in this even Ezreal would be better off since it is a reliable 30 magic damage on his Q instead of 20% crit chance.

SaltyKracka1 votes

Frankly, as Nasus I build/built Trinity for the Rage, Spell blade, and movement speed.

Attack speed, crit chance, and AP are probably the three least important stats on the item for the bruisers who buy it.

Irelia Bot3 votes

{quoted}

Frankly, as Nasus I build/built Trinity for the Rage, Spell blade, and movement speed.

Attack speed, crit chance, and AP are probably the three least important stats on the item for the bruisers who buy it.

but Nasus is jsut one of the champs who to has tended to get Trinity. And while you might not notice it that attack speed does provide some power for him in trades and is the only one of the three stats you say you don't really care much about that I am suggesting be kept on it. He actually would benefit from the 30 on hit magic damage more then the crit chance overall as well since it means fewer creeps that are able to survive with 10 or less health when you miscalculated or more damage on his autos be it a Q one or not.

I am actually in a way suggesting that trinity be focused on as a fighter item instead of a marksmen item which it was aimed at being with the changes this the current patch.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

Frankly, as Nasus I build/built Trinity for the Rage, Spell blade, and movement speed.

Attack speed, crit chance, and AP are probably the three least important stats on the item for the bruisers who buy it.

But Vi would like IAS/OnHit. So would Gnar. So would Jayce. So would Lucian if he went that route.

Honestly, it seems to me there are way more champs who would enjoy a little extra attack speed and 30 OnHit magic damage more than upped crit chance. Crit chance is really only valuable if you've sitting on at least 150 attack damage as far as raw DPS optimization goes. And that's not taking into account things like bonus AD ratios.

MilfHuntUnitXJ91 votes

as if Gangplank isn't a poster child for trinity? Where is your head dude?

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

as if Gangplank isn't a poster child for trinity? Where is your head dude?

He is the poster child of one shot wonders since his Q can crit while others like Irelia and Ez's Q can not.

Really one of if not the only champ who would suffer if this change went through. B ut he is completely able to play around these changes since it is more reliable damage in trinity instead of random crits.

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