Numbers don't lie: Ahri is a broken champion

Otherworldz·Apr 12, 2017·145 votes·9,807 views

I'm ready to get downvoted by Ahri mains into oblivion

There is a clear inverse relationship between playrate and win rate. That is to say, the more a champion is played, the lower their overall win rate becomes. This can be due to factors like less experience, less effective builds, inefficient itemization, wrong masteries, and so on.... Basically the more a champion is played there are expected to be those with less experience who typically win less.

Of course Ahri mains will argue and whine for days about how their waifu is the hardest, most challenging, and underpowered mid in the game. We will hear them whine for days about Syndra, Talon, Zed, or Leblanc.... Talking about how X needs nerfs or how Y is so broken...

I'm speaking here for a purely objective point of view, in that numbers in themselves never lie. Ahri is the only champion in the game to maintain an absurdly high win rate of 54% despite being the most played mid in the game at all elos. And unlike champions like Talon, Zed, or Leblanc, her win rate doesn't still stays above 50% even after games have gone on for 40+ minutes. Her win rate is even higher during shorter games where these other assassins and combo mages are supposed to shine, and yet her win rate is still higher than theirs is for the given game duration.

Ahri mains please downvote this thread I really don't care. The numbers speak for themselves and you can't argue with actual game data.

244 Comments

Linna ExcelApr 13, 201742 votes

Lucian's winrate is only 1% lower than Ahri's but he's picked twice as often.

Obviously Lucian is twice as broken.

SoyUnPrededorApr 13, 201720 votes

Hasn't been that way for 2+ seasons. Ahri has not fallen below 54% winrate since the q movement speed was added, iirc.

Hinagiku33Apr 13, 201718 votes

...Well it's only 53% now, so...

But anyway, the OP failed to look at the most important stats here: Player Experience

Riot has been very clear that players with 125+ games on a champion are supposed to have high winrates. As in, some champions are allowed to have 60+% winrates as long as only the 125+ game players are the ones winning that much. The real problem is when new players win too much.

What the OP fails to realize is that Ahri has been extremely popular since Season 2. A gigantic portion of Ahri's players are dedicated "mains" that have hundreds of games on her. And it's not like Ahri has had many real changes in core gameplay in all these years, so all of that experience carries over season to season.

http://champion.gg/champion/Ahri/Middle

41% of Ahri players have 200+ games with her. These players are expected to have 55+% winrates. That's how champion mastery works and many other champions have far more excessive winrates for dedicated mains. 19% of Ahri players have 150-200 games and should likewise have very high winrates. And a further 18% have 100-150 games and should at least be over 50% on her.

Only 21% of Ahri players have fewer than 100 games on her, and only 6% have less than 50. The real issue is that these groups are the ones with a very high winrate.

The issue isn't that "Ahri is just too powerful, please nerf". The real issue is that Ahri is clearly a little too easy for new players. Her winrate is fine since she has a godly number of 200+ game players, but some of her power needs to be shifted into something more difficult so the newer players don't have so easy a time.

I recommend lowering or removing the MS on her Q and putting power back into her E, possibly the damage amp that used to be there.

It Hertz When IPApr 13, 20174 votes

AFAIK nearly all of Ahri's dedicated fanbase said that if there were any nerfs to be made, it would be the removal of the bonus MS from Q.

EedatApr 13, 20177 votes

Are you nuts? The "Playerbase average games" on champion.gg has been broken for MONTHS. It said the playerbase average for Camille was 180 the patch after her release

Mecha MaIphiteApr 12, 201728 votes

I'm all for ahri nerfs but a few things need to be cleared up.

Of course Ahri mains will argue and whine for days about how their waifu is the hardest, most challenging, and underpowered mid in the game.

I don't really know why you included this at all. Ofc some people are just in denial, but a lot of other ahri players I've seen have already accepted that she needs nerfs, and even gave suggestions as to what in her kit was problematic. Moreover, I haven't seen anyone claim she's the hardest or weakest in the game.

I'm speaking here for a purely objective point of view, in that numbers in themselves never lie.

And numbers still aren't enough on their own. Literally anyone can go on a LoL stats site and see that her winrate is really high. You're not contributing anything by just pointing that out. You could instead talk about why she's so strong, like "X part of her kit is OP, so let's nerf that", and that would be a good case to make. Instead you just say "Ahri is strong", toss them down, and leave it at that.

OtherworldzApr 12, 20179 votes

I personally believe in minor tweaks over actual nerfs. Riot can be drastic in how they change certain champions sometimes, and they just hope it works out.

I think the root of Ahri's problem lies in the fact that she has insane mobility, on top of being a skillshot combo mage, who typically maintain immobility as a balancing factor.

Skins ProjectApr 13, 20178 votes

I'm not an "Ahri Main" so to speak..

However she was one of my "main" champions when I mained (ATM just a fill player)

Honestly for Ahri an easy fix that doesn't break her for the better players but decreases her safety is moving her q move speed to her passive, so she takes at least 3 spells in order to get the move speed, and giving more value to the passive then, just wait for a large minion wave and heal.

ModAcademy KaynApr 12, 201720 votes

Wow look, yet another thread where the person uses only statistics to justify their reasoning without bothering to go into what is actually wrong with her. I'm just going to Copy-pasta the same ~~essay~~ post I used for the last one of these.

If we're only looking at Stats, that makes sense. But also look at how Syndra's graph flows (A immobile mage)

https://i.gyazo.com/179c39b8ae44c8553fae84691b689a80.png

She peaks surprisingly high during early game. That's probably due to a lot of Syndra's getting ahead early, and snowballing the game into an early win. Then, she dips into sub 50% for 20-40 minutes of the game. This is likely due to a Syndra who isn't ahead/behind heading into Mid-game without any snowball to back her up. After that, she spikes back up to 52-53% as the game hits real late game. This would account for Syndra's who didn't snowball the game into an early win, but stuck it through the mid-game, and is now full build like everyone else.

Now that makes sense for a non-ahead Syndra to be at a dip in winrate come middle game. She's an immoble Mage, who requires on bursting a Target to survive. If she isn't ahead of people, she's going to be at a disadvantage. This is where Ahri is different.

https://i.gyazo.com/5900e672b512b084204a9cae9cbb2915.png

Ahri doesn't have the snowbally spike as Syndra has early game, as it seems most of an Ahri players wins end as surrenders, which is understandable, as players are more likely to dodge an Ahri charm than a Syndra stun. However, because of her Mobility, her win-rate does not drop Mid-game as Syndra's would if she's made it into mid game not ahead. That is where the difference lies, in the champions themself. A champion who requires burst to survive vs. a champion who needs mobility to survive, the mobility one is going to have a better mid-game, as she isn't going to get caught as easily as a Syndra would.

It's because of that key difference that Ahri doesn't exactly dip as hard as other mages do. An Ahri that isn't ahead, but stays alive not giving the enemy gold, is going to heighten the Teams chance of winning, simply because she isn't giving an enemy gold. As her team has a better chance of winning, so does she.

Finally, I want to ask you this. This is Zed's historic average winrate and his average banrate. Even when at sub-50%, he sees pretty consistent bans. This is probably due to how frustrating Zed can be a times.

https://i.gyazo.com/d6de08f75acbfa7be16a4e6a7e9cef23.png

But here is Ahri's Winrate and Ban rate averages.

https://i.gyazo.com/0af3e5dca73a470b0c2ab4c598e1ab7d.png?noredirect

Here, despite her being at a +50% winrate for a good amount of years, the only time Ahri has ever seen high-mass banrates, is when she was recently reworked, and was kinda broken as fuck. However, after several nerfs to damage, mana costs, and a later Passive sustain nerf, she drops back down to low ban-rates.

It's obvious that people don't feel frustrated about Ahri, even if she does have +50% winrates. The only time she's seen high banrates is when she truly became a frustrating champion. If Ahri is so strong, why aren't people getting frustrated against playing her and banning her more?

This is what I mean by you can't look at stats alone. You have to analyze why the numbers mean what they do, not just the numbers themselves.

ChargeItDownMidApr 12, 20178 votes

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AnidanApr 12, 20176 votes

Can I just point out that when you carry with you the belief that something was OP but wasn't considered OP when compared to contemporary OP champions then that means that you can say that absolutely anyone was OP but nobody noticed it because there were still stronger champions? I'm not saying anything else, but that particular kind of statement bothers me. It means you can imply someone who was middle of the road or higher was OP the whole time when they weren't changed but everyone else was and it just so happened that nobody else noticed they were OP the whole time because of bigger problem champions. But that should mean they weren't OP and simply became OP by process of everyone above them getting weaker, not because they were always OP.

OP.

OP OP.

ChargeItDownMidApr 12, 20172 votes

[deleted]

AnidanApr 13, 20173 votes

It bothers me because if we can extend "OP" to people that aren't actually considered OP in a given patch then you're diluting the term and making it harder to discuss balance. If, say, 30 champions are OP then where is the line really drawn at what's considered OP and what isn't if it can refer to so many people? Hell, even 15-20 it becomes questionable. Realistically, you should have "OP" as the champions that currently have the high win+ban+pickrate, followed by strong (not more OP), then average, then below average, then people that could probably use some help. If there are so many OP champions then it seriously puts into question what you're considering to be OP.

ModAcademy KaynApr 13, 20173 votes

TL;DR

OP?

LauchmelderApr 13, 20176 votes

Just because a champion wasn't complained about due to stronger picks existing at the time doesn't mean that champion wasn't too strong.

You think that OP champions should be complained about equally, but everybody will complain about the biggest problem first.

Ahri always was a problem case, but never (except for a patch or 2) problem #1.

ModKnightsKemplarApr 13, 20173 votes

Ahri doesn't see higher ban rates because she is pretty well designed. She still has counterplay, but she IS way overtuned. "People don't understand what they should be banning" is NOT a good argument that she's balanced. It's a good argument that she's healthy, in general, though.

It is almost always indicative of a overtuned champ that even inexperienced player with that champ can excel on them. She doesn't have to be frustrating to be very strong.

ModAcademy KaynApr 13, 20175 votes

No, but it's been a very historic case of people who are broken, or even overturned, have seen a rise in Ban-rate. I have another copy pasta post somewhere that explains why it's easy for people to learn Ahri, but the Tl;DR is that she's really easy, coupled with the fact she has mobility. Her being easy means there is little difference between her skill floor and skill ceiling, which means that her winrate is much closer to that of experienced Ahri's (which is 56%) than most champs are.

If Ahri was overtuned, her winrate for experienced mains would be inflated as well, but at the moment, it still sits at the percent most easy champs have with their experienced winrates.

HalcyonDwellerApr 12, 201715 votes

I clicked into this thread expecting another poorly crafted statistics post.

I still disagree on a few points and I think a few of your comparisons are a little thin... but overall a quality analysis!

Have my upvote.

Now lets get into the meat of the issue. What about Ahri needs to change? A lot of people have differing opinions, some are biased because they like her, while others just want the champion nerfed into the ground. Let's find the middle ground!

FreeVolibearApr 12, 201714 votes

I feel the latest change in Ahri's mobility is what makes her ridiculous. Even if you don't do well (associating well with carrying or at least contributing to in game value) you can escape most impending death situations with her mobility and it doesn't take much skill to do so. If anything needs to change about her, it's that.

HalcyonDwellerApr 12, 20178 votes

Which part of her mobility?

The Ultimate: If she blows her ultimate to stay safe she can't use it to dive, flank, or kill somebody.

The Orb: I've seen people comment on how her Q gives movement speed, and is being used to allow easier escapes (this is likely outside its intended use case).

FreeVolibearApr 12, 20175 votes

Both actually. The additional movement speed as well as a dash away. If you're trying not to die, typically you will blow that ult to get away. She can also move out of range and dive right back in if she chooses and the circumstances change. Basically she has op damage/kite capability and can get away untouched without trouble.

HalcyonDwellerApr 12, 20175 votes

I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree about the ultimate.

I think that the tradeoff she makes by using the ultimate for an escape is fair. A lot of champions can be baited into using long cooldown abilities and then fighting them after their abilities are on cooldown.

ChaddyFantomeApr 13, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree about the ultimate.

I think that the tradeoff she makes by using the ultimate for an escape is fair. A lot of champions can be baited into using long cooldown abilities and then fighting them after their abilities are on cooldown.

Thing is, Ahri's ultimate CD isn't long at all, and on top of that she has easy access to tons of CDR.

NineTailedMysticApr 13, 20172 votes

110/95/80 is average but it could stand to be a little higher the first two ranks.

SpoofghoulApr 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The Orb: I've seen people comment on how her Q gives movement speed, and is being used to allow easier escapes (this is likely outside its intended use case).

you know what's really outside of its intended use case? how you run twice as fast across the map by spamming q

similar to how i can base as say sion then wait for mana then walk to lo lane but riven is already there and has already pushed in 2 waves because she dont need to wait for mana and she can spam all her abilties to get to lane faster.

those are hidden strengths i don't see many people talk about

and people claim ahri's mana costs are high but thats a lie, its just average, once the lost chapter gets in its spam q all day never go oom time This also get's really annoying in lane because Q is really good waveclear just throw it into the wave run back to your tower over and over and over making it really hard to actually fight ahri but even if you do manage to poke her here and there she just heals up anyway

I guess im Saying is, ahri is too safe/easymode

You can shove in wave and base really quick (or roam ofc) You can clear waves easy by throwing q and running back to tower for ultimate safety Your passive keeps your health topped off if they manage to land poke through the Q mobility So your enemies always have to attempt to kill you when you are full health, and faster then them on top of having that mobility ult

She is way too safe, now you can make risky plays, but you dont have too you can stagnate lane and use your mobility to influence the rest of the map. Or always keep shoving in that extra wave and getting back to lane in the same timeframe as your opponent, like riven does for example

There is more then 1 way to address her

the passive healing, the ult, the Q movement

though i would start with the Q and make the speed only apply when an enemy champion gets hit

this removes a lot of unnecessary power right away

Elkington VIApr 12, 20176 votes

She's too damn safe. It becomes near impossible to punish her after a certain point, especially if you're melee. If you're an immobile melee, you might as well not even try.

TeemoXNidaleeApr 12, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Elkington VI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vub4Ib1U,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-04-12T23:25:40.149+0000)

She's too damn safe. It becomes near impossible to punish her after a certain point, especially if you're melee. If you're an immobile melee, you might as well not even try.

She is safer and outdamages melee assassins except Fizz.

NineTailedMysticApr 13, 20176 votes

"outdamages melee assassins" wat. Ahri's damage is on the lower end of the spectrum for Burst champions.

Sp33d Zer0Apr 13, 201714 votes

Just take away her Q move speed. That was what made her too safe.

SweedishGunnerApr 13, 20175 votes

But Riot wanted to turn her from an assassin to a 'kite' mage when they changed her kit.

If they remove that then what else would they change in return? Does Riot still even want the concept of a kite mage to be a thing?

DinKaaaYApr 13, 20172 votes

Maybe to keep the kite mage dream alive Riot should have the movespeed only activate if her Q hits an enemy champion. At least that leaves room to counter the escape with jukes or flashes from her Q.

Lux KywaIkerApr 13, 20172 votes

What you guys forget is that the movespeed buff on her Q does not only impact her escaping ability, it also makes it VERY hard to hit her in lane when she comes to Q your arse. She comes forward, Q's through minions to hit you safely, and if you are able to hit her even though minions are sitting between you and her, you have a high chance of missing your spell(s) because of that speed buff.

In addition to that, her Q has such a low mana cost for a main damaging ability, that it allows her to spam it early, pushing the lane hard if not hitting you at the same time. Then all you can do is stick to your turret and dodge even more Q's, hoping your jungle will actually react before she hits level 6. After that, your lane is basically over as she will keep pushing the waves and start ganking and diving your botlane.

What a nice gameplay tbh.

imo her Q should not give her bonus movespeed if it doesn't hit a champion, and it's manacost should be increased a bit. That's all, everything else seems fine even though it feels very unfair to play mages that actually have to land a skillshot to kill even when they're fed, where Ahri can just R E Ignite R R and get a kill with a 2s rollface.

Just saying I have 53% winrate as Ahri in 19 games and a KDA of fcking 5. I have not mastered her yet but hell, she's way too powerful.

GayFluffyUnicornApr 13, 20172 votes

Ahri is an assassin with unmatched mobility, with burst mage dmg and hard CC of a control mage. If they want her to be a mage, her mobility needs to cut down. If she is supposed to be an assassin she can't have hard CC-

RaxistaichoApr 12, 201714 votes

Ahri just needs to be made less safe is all.

Popstar AhriApr 13, 20178 votes

her pre 6 has no weakness which is the problem, she is very strong in lane and safe, her Q movement speed needs to be lowered, and only be increase by each rank, while her roam still works fine without needing ult because of that.

She is already too safe, what she needs is a ms nerf or the Q ms nerfs.

WalkingInACircleApr 12, 20177 votes

There is a clear inverse relationship between playrate and win rate.

Oh really? I know the boards passes this around as a fact, but tell me, have you seen it in action? Watching the stats, I usually find that when a champion becomes fotm, both go up. This has been true of Ahri as well. I attribute this to fotm players who simply pick champions that are strong. The belief that any given champion is hard to pickup is wrong. Most champions only take a few games to grasp the fundamentals of and get used to the key combinations. This is especially true for high level players who don't need any introduction to what a champion does.

I'm speaking here for a purely objective point of view, in that numbers in themselves never lie.

Very wrong. Ever heard the phrase, "lies, damned lies, and statistics"? Correlation does not equal to causation. People make up meanings in numbers that aren't neccessarily there. Eg. 100% of people who breathe air die.

FilDaFunkApr 13, 20176 votes

If you use numbers as evidence, could you be so kind to include these actual numbers?

HyperiönApr 13, 20176 votes

There was another post like this complaining an Ahri killed them with only Ult and E late game.

Then I saw the replay,

Between Thunderlords, Hextech Belt, Ludens, they were already near half way dead.

Before you look at the champion directly, you should look at the insane amount of damage people get from those 3 items alone.

RoeloApr 13, 20175 votes

I liked it when Ahri could still interrupt dashes with her charm. It felt like someting that separated great Ahri players from the good ones, while Q just gives you movement speed without having to do anything special for it. Maybe they could remove her movement speed bonus and give back her dash interruption.

Jeanne fan clubApr 13, 20175 votes

There are a lot of variables that go into winrate.

I'm not going to sit here and say that Ahri doesn't need a nerf, I'm open to all changes for all champions, but I just want you to understand that there are a shit ton of variables that influence winrate, and jumping to the most severe is premature.

Ahri has the most mains out of any champion in the game, and I think that is one of the more prevalent causes to her winrate. Another reason being that she is anti early snowball because of how easily she can escape ganks if she is at the halfway point down midlane. Since its hard to snowball off her, its harder for the enemy team to farm kills and gold off of her.

She is a generalist as well. regardless of the meta, there is a part of her kit that will do well. She has good mobility and poke so she will always be good in a poke meta, though she will never be as good at poking as a lux or xerath, or as mobile as a kassadin or fizz. She shares the strengths of both champion types, but is not as good at a certain playstyle as a more dedicated champion to the class. Same with tank metas, she is good at kiting tanks and has low cd's to keep throwing abilities out. Sure true damage is there but imo its only a noticeable difference if its against a champion with high resistances but low hp, since tanks have a balance between hp and resistances its not very noticeable.

All of Ahri's natural mains have been nerfed almost to the ground. LB is pretty bad, and swain is more of a top laner now. The only real matchups that pose to be any sort of counter are fizz, orianna (and thats a stretch), katarina, vlad and yasuo (depending on the yasuo). Most of these "counters" aren't even good counters, they are just able to either clear waves or force pressure (that is inherent on a champion like kat or yasuo). The one thing about ahri though is that she has some of the same counterplay as vayne, where aoe can really screw ahri over. half of Ahri's kit requires you to get in auto range to use, her E and Ult damage. The other half is all skillshots and pick abilities.

I think another big variable for ALL champions winrates is the huge flavor of the month problem that NA has. People tend to chose their champions based off of the meta rather than how good they are at them. This works both ways so I don't think this is a very strong point, but it is worth mentioning.

One thing I can promise you for sure, it doesn't matter if Riot nerfs Ahri, her mains will always manage to make her winrate super high. They can remove her Q ms, increase her ult cd, lower her W damage all that stuff and I can say for certain that she will always have a super high winrate and that is just because of how many mains she has, and how dedicated they are.

DarthFantasiaApr 14, 20171 votes

I'm not sure where you are getting the fact that she has the most mains from, that would be Lee Sin. It is impossible to be able to tell who has the most mains. She doesn't have that much poke; she is a highly mobile assassin. By no means is Ahri a generalist. She can farm well, gank well, assassinate targets quickly, and stays relevant the entire match. When you are amazing at everything and have now real weaknesses, something is gonna need to change. I agree that she has no real counters, which is another issue with her. A champion with no lane counters... Enough said.

Jeanne fan clubApr 14, 20172 votes

Before they changed Champion.gg there used to be a section that broke down the distribution of games played. from this graph you could see how many players have x# of games. Ahri had always had about 70% of her players with 50+ games. She had one of the highest avg games played per player at about 90 for a champion of her playrate. with that information and her playrate, it can only be concluded that she has the most mains out of any mid champion.

Ill be honest, I didn't get to look at lee sins player distribution by # of games so you may be correct. I think we can both agree that Ahri is more straight forward and reliable to play than Leesin

By no means is Ahri a generalist. She can farm well, gank well, assassinate targets quickly, and stays relevant the entire match

this is what a generalist is... She fills many roles, so she will stay relevant regardless of the meta.

And I know its a meme at this point, but real counters in lane don't exist anyway. Sure you can get to the point where its like a fizz vs tf in lane, but even then the lane matchup doesn't directly correlate with winrate. The TF can still ult to other lanes and win those for his teamates.

skdKitsuneApr 13, 20174 votes

Dunno whats the point in these threads. Ahri's winrate is high, because players have experience with her kit. It practically did not change since her release (other than the shift from "nuke" E-spell to "kite" Q). Players who have hundreds of games with her, have a positive winrate, it is that simple. But her Q movespeed needs to be toned down a bit. Let it increase with ranks and nerf it A BIT on the highest rank. Should be fine.

Kosm1KApr 13, 20171 votes

I want you to realize, that yes her kit is familiar to most people that have been playing a while, however there's allegedly thousands of new players daily, and her kit can't be familiar to them. Also since when is a 54% winrate ok?

SpongebobIsLifeApr 14, 20172 votes

there's always going to be a 54 percent win rate champ.

Kosm1KApr 14, 20171 votes

yeah, but for a champ that is 1 of every 5 games? a champ that's had this kind of winrate for more than a few patches? that isn't ok. Ideally, a champ should be at a 50% winrate

SpongebobIsLifeApr 14, 20172 votes

should they not though? From a design perspective, Ahri is the most balanced and successful champions they've released in this game. She has appealed to a very very large amount of players, has a kit that is always viable, and despite being a strong pick, never feels overbearing/obnoxious/broken like many other champs do when strong.

Riot doesn't nerf her there's not much there to nerf or very little reason to. In terms of gameplay she's pretty balanced, especially in comparison to a lot of their other champions. It'd just be nerfs to say they nerfed her.

I look at Ahri a lot like I do music. You know a song is good if after multiple years the message in the song is still applicable to people listening to it (Think of the song gangster's paradise).

Kosm1KApr 15, 20171 votes

She's pretty balanced sure, she really hasn't needed any real changes. However, with this update, her Q movespeed just denies counterplay, which is really unfun to deal with. If you're not someone like ekko or fizz that can easily dodge her Q+E while gapclosing, then you're going to have a hell of a time dealing with her. She'll only come in close while her Q is up, and more often than not it'll be to just farm with said Q. Thanks to that Q though, she can not only get farm, but deny you yours with that same Q while making it so that you can't fight her thanks to the movespeed she has while it's flying (which also gets more ms duration since it takes longer to fly back when you run away). most mages can't handle that. All ahri has to do is not lose, while the enemy team has to win in order to actually be useful later

SpongebobIsLifeApr 15, 20172 votes

The last statement is completely false as ahri actually gets completely outscaled by nearly every mage mid lane. I do agree that q can be a bit unfair in lane as good ahri's will throw their q while trading and/or farming in order to dodge incoming skillshots.

RainXBladeApr 15, 20174 votes

Personally, Ahri's a really frustrating match up for me to be in because of how safe her kit can get. I get that popping her ult for her safety allows people to have a window of opportunity to capitalize on, but that still isn't enough. Like the previous comments, bump off a few points in the MS she gains on her Q or move it to her passive w/o replacing the heal on it. This is so that she can't just, "Press Q, now I can either go in, kite someone or make my escape." kind of thing when her ult is down. I'd suggest some number changes but I don't know for sure. I don't play a lot of ranked but I play a lot of norms though (yes, you can call me a casual for that), but Ahri's too much of a generalist pick for a mage.