If your going to revert the Crit item rework, you need to remove the buffs you gave to ADC's as well

Packun Flower·Jul 18, 2018·47 votes·14,713 views

7/18 PBE Update: Continued Akali Testing, Pool Party 2018 Map Accents, & More

So all the Crit items are having the gold prices reverted back to what they were on the PBE making the whole rework completely useless, to begin with.

This has made ADC's oppressively strong as fuck. As they are now getting crit power spikes much faster in games once again, this toppled with the fact that a bunch of ADC's got compensation buffs for the crit rework has led to ADC's absolutely going ham right now.

Straight up, if you follow through with this you NEED to remove the compensation buffs you gave to ADC's as a result of crit item rework. leaving it as it is now will literally put a ADC in every lane of the game.

67 Comments

ModKnightsKemplarJul 18, 201826 votes

Tbh, the most important part of the crit rework was just making IE not deal 150% damage on crits. They have a lot of room to add power back because of that change alone.

Frankly, I'm not sure the individual buffs are bad, either. I could be wrong, but it stands to reason that the champs that were performing worst of crit adcs were the ones getting those. Those aren't the champs you need to worry about being OP with cheaper crit items.

Harden StepbackJul 18, 201822 votes

See this is the bullshit riot does. They nerf something, give small buffs, and then revert the initial nerf. Now ADC's will be even more broken than before.

ModWulf HelhammerJul 18, 201822 votes

Let me know when IE does 50% extra crit damage.

Then they'll be at the same level as they were before.

Tahminatrix Jul 18, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqNkq0Mm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T22:25:07.151+0000)

Let me know when IE does 50% extra crit damage.

Then they'll be at the same level as they were before.

They might need dial back on item 3033 item 3036 if that ever happens. that 50% extra crit damage combined with total armor penetration would be murder.

Pokemonred200Jul 18, 20181 votes

The 50% extra damage did exist with total armor pen on Last Whisper before, back in Season 1-5. (Last Whisper used to be a standalone item that gave 40% Total Armor Pen)

In season 5, an ADC build was almost always item 3031 item 3046 item 3072 item 3035 item 3026 . In that exact order. Every single game. (PD was sometimes swapped to item 3087 (which gave less AS and Crit but it had a gold gen item in the recipe and the chain lightning passive) and some ADCs built item 3153 over BT, but that build was basically mandatory for most marksmen back then)

Tahminatrix Jul 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The 50% extra damage did exist with total armor pen on Last Whisper before, back in Season 1-5. (Last Whisper used to be a standalone item that gave 40% Total Armor Pen)

Ya I agree with you, problem is there has been damage creep in the base kits of most champions, just look at Caitlyn headshot

SpeeedyJul 19, 20182 votes

Fixing her passive from a scaling that no longer existed in the game was a mandatory fix

Anu3isIIJul 19, 20181 votes

You are partially right. Crit ADCs now rush for a Zeal Item with Infinity Edge and then build another Zeal item. This "core" set overall costs a lot less than the first 3 item combo in Season 5 and is arguably deadlier, while lacking any real sustain.

When you look at stats, they may not be that different, but when you look at costs, you realise how fast they used to scale before the nerfs.

Pokemonred200Jul 19, 20182 votes

I'm not gonna deny that their scaling before was completely disgusting. Double Zeal became a lot more valuable now than it used to be, which really wasn't okay.

RexxieeJul 18, 201815 votes

They are not reverting anything, IE is sitll a lot weaker than before and adc base stats are still in the dumpster.

Daddy AntsJul 19, 20187 votes

{quoted}

They are not reverting anything, IE is sitll a lot weaker than before and adc base stats are still in the dumpster.

It's sad you're getting downvoted for stating a fact.

The circle jerk strikes again.

SkorchJul 18, 201813 votes

They arent even reverting the update, so much more happened than the gold nerfs.

Yordle XayahJul 19, 20189 votes

Don't understand why people down vote those that have stated the facts. I guess I'll get down voted too...

This is not a revert

It's lower prices and reduced stats and no 150% damage on crits by IE. What are you people even complaining about anymore?

Then you guys wonder why Riot doesn't ever take you seriously when you overreact like this. Oh whatever...

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

dunder killJul 18, 20188 votes

Dafuq? How is that a revert? So overall the Zeal items give 5% less Crit and IE is even more nerfed. How is this a "revert"? Someone please explain

ninjaroxasJul 18, 20185 votes

Reduced the cost, and you already had over 100% crit so lowering it by 5% doesn't hurt them really, the IE is more debatable. My problem with this is that it cause Adc's to scale faster while not loseing much

kjm99Jul 19, 20181 votes

It's a loss of 10% crit chance at 2 items, 60% was a nice point to build something semi defensive before. It might still be fine at 50% but zeal items were already underwhelming for the price compared to lethality items, the reduced crit chance seems a bit unneccesary.

ninjaroxasJul 20, 20181 votes

It ain't gonna kill them to crit a little less early on, they are getting the items sooner too

GayFluffyUnicornJul 19, 20184 votes

? We are basically back were we started. Except that they get 20% more DPS from crit chance alone+base stat buffs more DPS and lost 50% bonus dmg from IE but got 10% true dmg on it. So overall the "crit rework" was basically a buff X D XD XD XD XD XD or power neutral depending on the final numbers.

HàrrowRJul 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

? We are basically back were we started. Except that they get 20% more DPS from crit chance alone+base stat buffs more DPS and lost 50% bonus dmg from IE but got 10% true dmg on it. So overall the "crit rework" was basically a buff X D XD XD XD XD XD or power neutral depending on the final numbers.

How is 10% ,true damage ever worth in this meta where no one even buys anything but full damage so they can blow up everyone faster

OtterlyLostJul 19, 20187 votes

They aren't reverting the changes at all. They literally took 10 AD and 5% TD off of IE because they changed the build path; it makes sense for an item that's losing stats to get cheaper. Like wise for the Zeal items; they took 5% crit off and lowered them by 200 gold, which is exactly how much 5% crit is worth. .-. The reworked IE is still there, ADC's will still need 3 items to do damage, and at the end of the day, all of the items individually are weaker than they originally were in either iteration. Its a net neutral change.

SpeeedyJul 19, 20182 votes

Its not net neutral, it just shifts their power curve away from late game to more mid game. Think of a dyno sheet of a motor. You are getting more horsepower at lower rpm than at higher rpm.

OtterlyLostJul 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Its not net neutral, it just shifts their power curve away from late game to more mid game. Think of a dyno sheet of a motor. You are getting more horsepower at lower rpm than at higher rpm.

It shifts their power curve to be gentle slope instead of a brick wall. :/ Anyway you look at it, they'll be doing less damage in the mid game than they were before. Most ADCs by midgame only have two items; they only had two items before the nerfs. Now those two items have less damage on them(less AD and TD and critical strike chance with no additional multiplier to damage on Crits) and they'll need 3 to unluck the full potential of IE. Which, might I add, eliminates some of the randomness for people who hated the randomness. And it also requires them to have 3 items to do damage.

Again, its a net neutral change intended to compromise with both parties. And I'll take it.

MizayaJul 19, 20185 votes

Yeah because getting 120% crit was totally logical?

Daddy AntsJul 19, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Yeah because getting 120% crit was totally logical?

Yeah man!

It was totally fair and logical for ADC's to have 2x 30% crit items that get doubled by IE.

Wasting 800 gold worth of stats passively was so fair.

But hey, If a bruiser, mage or assassin was wasting stats like this "omg fix this!11"

Almost CreativeJul 18, 20184 votes

I actually wanted them to nerf critical strike in the 1st place instead of changing IE and Essance Reaver

saltranJul 18, 20184 votes

Hahahahahaha omg how much I missed ppl crying about adcs on the Gameplay Boards, suddenly I don't want to remove the Gameplay Boards at all because reading it the next days will be sure lots of fun

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 19, 20184 votes

Hm.

From the rough look of it, ADC items aren't getting reverted completely. The important thing here is that most of the crit items prices went down overall but also their stats. Crit also hits harder to scale back on because of IE's interaction with double crit, meaning you're actually looking at 10% less crit (50%) when you actually finish both items. It lowers the two-item powerspike in exchange for letting you get there a little faster.

I'm going to assume the goal here is to allow the crit adcs to get their items earlier in exchange for less of a two-item power spike. This seems like one of those changes we're going to have to see in action and not just go "revert all buffs adcs ever got"

RyzeTheSmurfMageJul 19, 20183 votes

I can't f****** belive my eyes. Riot actually listened to the crybabies complaining like Hashinshin about not being the strongest class..... This is a whole new level of Bull sh**....

TwitchInMyPantsJul 19, 20183 votes

This isn't a revert wtf

You still need 1300 gold to even get part of a big item even if its cheaper and mages have basically infinite mana with Lost Chapter. They just have superior itemization and outpoke carries. And all of those durability nerfs to adcs are sticking.

Literally Kai'Sa, Lucian, and Ezreal are what's viable in the adc role and everything else is situational. Buffing the powerspike of adcs when towers are still made of paper and mages still win lane by default won't change shit.

saltranJul 19, 20185 votes

This isn't a revert wtf

Oh reallity doesn't matter for Gameplay Boards when it comes to adc circlejerk

saltranJul 19, 20183 votes

How can someone with a even a bit of decency say that reverting Zeal items cost but with worse crit and changing the IE to only convert 10% to true dmg is "Reverting crit items"

Pokemonred200Jul 18, 20182 votes

item 3046 is actually buffed vs 8.10 minus the lowered crit chance, because it costs 2500 gold on PBE vs 2600 like 8.10.

I like it, because despite it having the best raw stats of the zeal items, PD was the least purchased of the zeal items on marksmen; it was an item that was only really built by Sivir, Yasuo, and Tryndamere. Infinity Edge's crit damage was among the main reasons the stat was so strong, along with the fact that innate sustain was so easy to come by that spending gold on lifesteal items like item 3153 or item 3072 kind of pointless.

Last Whisper only penetrating bonus armor made item 3036 and item 3033 SO niche that 100% crit was usually better on champions who could build item 3508 and item 3026 best on the others. (especially because the bonus crit damage from item 3031 made item 3087 's burst oppressive, especially given it charges faster with item 3094 ).

One thing to note is that the lowered AD and true damage, even for the cost, means you'll need even more AD to reach threatening levels of damage. IE + Double Zeal feels like your autos tickle when you don't have AD from other items atm, so I can see ADs still buying item 3095 / item 3036 / item 3072 for the AD needed for a strong build.

There's also other things that got nerfed, like base stats, to take into account when saying the patch got reverted.

Pokemonred200Jul 18, 20181 votes

whelp, the zeal items are all 100 more gold expensive than what they were when I wrote this up, lol. Points still stand overall, tho.

JoeAnarchyJul 19, 20182 votes

it was teh ADC base stat reduction that neutered ADCs, not the crit item reworks.. but good attempt at bitching about something that doesn't need bitching about. dont worry, your obnoxious brawlers and mages will still be better in the bottom lane, and true ADCs will still struggle

MogarlJul 19, 20182 votes

Idk. I'm not sure where it stands with 600 gold less, but technically a marksman rushing a zeal item into infinity edge has 10% less crit. On top of that Infinity first still kinda sucks, and zeal first kinda sucks so now they'll have only 50% crit chance and slightly less ad at three items. Sure they reach it 600 gold sooner, but they're still weaker.

On the other hand item 1051 costs 600 gold and gives 10% crit chance. So they can get up to 70% crit for the same value they had 60% before.

Most games right now these are still going to end up as mostly nerfs, but typically the net change will look like -10 AD, -5% true damage on crits, +10% crit chance (20% if you want to extend 700g up to zeal)

Imo the most concern to watch is if marksman become really overbearing at 4-5 items

GigglesOJul 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lewd Loli Annie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqNkq0Mm,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-18T22:14:22.356+0000)

So all the Crit items are having the gold prices reverted back to what they were on the PBE making the whole rework completely useless, to begin with.

No, they can damage creep the game further this way.

saltranJul 19, 20181 votes

Dear Boards member may you at least read the IE that is on the PBE before saying bullshit?

GigglesOJul 19, 20181 votes

Which is nice, but it came with a price decrease. AD items should be as inefficent as tank items. Just look at this thing called slot efficiency, and gold efficiency.

Sire HippingtonJul 19, 20181 votes

you ignore half the changes. Yes, the costs get lowered, but so do the stats they give includeing the truedamage conversion, and the important change to IE is still there. IE loosing the bonus crit damage and also not working as a 1-item powerspike is quite a big deal.

I think the current PBE change to crit goes in the right direction, giving adc a bit more power early to mid while reduceing their still absurd power in the late. I think it's important for adc as a class to not be as hyperscaleing by default if they are to be in any healthy and funktional spot.

Draven AlwaysJul 19, 20181 votes

lmao wtf this isn't a buff it's a nerf kiddo. IE still hot garbage and is gonna be worse. Only buff was the AS CRIT MS items. And they took 5% crit off. This won't change anything.

japhibJul 20, 20181 votes

Don’t forget the Trynd buffs

FFeintJul 28, 20181 votes

Waiting for the instant yasuo revert cuz the early hotfix he got in the crit patch. (sarcasm)

The thigh guyJan 24, 20191 votes

You seem to have forgotten that the items that are being “reverted” are still coming back weaker than before adc’s got gutted.

Critmaster GarenJan 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vqNkq0Mm,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2019-01-24T19:36:43.237+0000)

You seem to have forgotten that the items that are being “reverted” are still coming back weaker than before adc’s got gutted.

this thread is 6 month old.

and we dont have information how the exact changes will look like. riot posted a couple of ideas they might have for crit items, but nothing concrete. there arent even changes on the pbe yet.