All these complaints about Crits, Yasuo, Graves, etc etc

Packun Flower·Nov 12, 2015·207 votes·8,948 views

All of these were brought to the attention of Riot when the preseaon hit the PBE.

But of course riot completely ignored the feedback given to them and went along with it anyway. And now we have this chaos.

#PBEServerhowdoesitwork?.

When I got my PBE account I was happy, thrilled even, I thought maybe with a PBE account I could finally have a voice. I could finally help With bugs and help Riot understand what is game breaking and what isn't. I wanted to use my PBE account to help stop things like this, the pre season backlash from happening.

But even on the PBE the voices and opinions of the people go ignored. So I really don't know what to think or say. I feel like I have failed as a PBE Tester, But when can I honestly do when my voice is being silenced or drown out by a stubborn employer.

There is nothing I can do.

151 Comments

ToasteyNov 12, 201592 votes

Riot when removing dodge runes circa season 2: "We're taking these out because they add too much of an unfair RNG element to the game."

Riot when adding new AD items preseason 6: "CRIT CRIT CRIT FOR EVERYONE. EVERY FUCKIN ITEM HAS CRIT. YKNOW WHAT KIDS, FOR PATCH 6.1, WE'RE ADDING A CRIT PASSIVE THAT SCALES WITH YOUR MAX HP SO TANKS CAN GET IN ON THE CRIT TOO! WUH0o0o0o0o0o0o0"

EondedueNov 12, 201524 votes

Welcome to League of Crit.

CherysseNov 12, 201510 votes

Ok this made me laugh because it is so true.

Midnight FoxNov 12, 201558 votes

Well if you get 100% crit then it's no longer RNG anymore right??? ... ... Yasuo

/kappa

cmillionNov 12, 20154 votes

They just wanted to be Opera with Crit,

"You get to crit, and you get to crit, and you get to crit."

S H A Y C 0Nov 12, 201520 votes

i wanted to enjoy this joke...but since you misspeelled Oprah and replaced it with

o·pe·ra1 ˈäp(ə)rə/Submit noun a dramatic work in one or more acts, set to music for singers and instrumentalists.

I couldnt manage to not read it that way...made me sad, because i do so enjoy a good oprah reference.

Woook3rNov 12, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcE8ruL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-12T08:07:20.856+0000)

Riot when removing dodge runes circa season 2: "We're taking these out because they add too much of an unfair RNG element to the game."

Riot when adding new AD items preseason 6: "CRIT CRIT CRIT FOR EVERYONE. EVERY FUCKIN ITEM HAS CRIT. YKNOW WHAT KIDS, FOR PATCH 6.1, WE'RE ADDING A CRIT PASSIVE THAT SCALES WITH YOUR MAX HP SO TANKS CAN GET IN ON THE CRIT TOO! WUH0o0o0o0o0o0o0"

I agree. Only draven should crit. kappa

Gunslinger744Nov 12, 20156 votes

WE'RE ADDING A CRIT PASSIVE THAT SCALES WITH YOUR MAX HP SO TANKS CAN GET IN ON THE CRIT TOO!

RIP Atma's item 3070

AllahbamaBlckSnkNov 12, 201546 votes

This reeks of CertainlyT so dont feel like you arent being heard, hes just ignoring everyone.

EondedueNov 12, 201520 votes

But this is riot for you. Never listen to the players unless you are in the LCS

AllahbamaBlckSnkNov 12, 201522 votes

{quoted}

But this is riot for you. Never listen to the players unless you are in the LCS

The game took a slow 180 at mid season 4, its just gone downhill very slowly and now its began to speed up A LOT.

EondedueNov 12, 201520 votes

Its not just been this recent patch that really made everyone mad. It been a build up over along time ever since the end of season.

EondedueNov 12, 20155 votes

season 3

Specter027Nov 12, 201521 votes

I agree. We used to see Riot talk about Clarity, Balance and Not Losing in Champ Select. We were told they were aware of power spikes and doing their best to even them out (In particular, I remember them flipping the #s on Renekton's Ultimate, making it weaker early and stronger late). I thought things like Fiora, Mordekaiser and Darius were going to be something Riot would be more active in combating in the future. But they remain extremely strong.

I hate the new masteries. They seem to lack clarity in some regards and aren't balanced. While the old system was neatly labeled (Off, Def, Util) the new system has often left me wondering where the hell im supposed to place things on the champ im playing. Also, the old system was full of slight buffs and minor passive boosts. This new system sees massive bonuses and very strong active abilities. The new system is going to be harder than hell to balance.

But, I'm also not impressed with Riot's ability to balance and fix things of late. Fiora, Mord (and in soloqueue, Darius) are still hell to play against. They've been so for a couple of months. It's Pre-Season, but it's still a patch, I was hoping to see a few things fixed, not more gasoline thrown on a fire.

PrimaquariusNov 12, 20155 votes

S4 Mastery trees were actually fine, and I finally had great pages for all three major roles (ADC/Mid/Tank)

Now I have to go back to trial-and-error games with trees that make no sense

PassionlipNov 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The game took a slow 180 at mid season 4, its just gone downhill very slowly and now its began to speed up A LOT.

Every time the game was better 1 or 2 season ago and it's going downhill now. It's not even funny anymore guys .-.

iamleburkNov 13, 20153 votes

Yea its fine to shorten game time, or make a game faster pace, but they are completely ignoring how they are gimping half the cast in the process... but then again, they couldn't even be bothered to update champs when they reduce the start time for games. Before season 4, comebacks were still a possibility, champions still had an option to scale. This minion change is the NOT way to go about it, it takes any lead and snowballs it out of control. The game will be decided in the first 5 minutes and the next 15 minutes will be watching one team get further and further ahead untill they finally decide to kill the base.

XonraNov 12, 20158 votes

Even then I don't think they do, unless it is the same conclusion they have. I mean, Xpecial on the last few patch rundowns, I just have to laugh. They make some Riot PR response that they WANT us to feel about something, then he goes "yeah I don't think that is going to work like you think" sort of comments.

So I'm thinking it isn't just us "general players" Riot is ignoring at this point.

OldDirtayNov 12, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Even then I don't think they do, unless it is the same conclusion they have. I mean, Xpecial on the last few patch rundowns, I just have to laugh. They make some Riot PR response that they WANT us to feel about something, then he goes "yeah I don't think that is going to work like you think" sort of comments.

So I'm thinking it isn't just us "general players" Riot is ignoring at this point.

glad someone else caught that

i mean what does xpecial know, its not like he plays the game at a pro level and for a job

oh wait...

XonraNov 12, 20159 votes

Which is funny because they almost all roll their eyes it seems when he says stuff like that, as if they are annoyed he didn't join in on the Riot balance lovefest, and it makes me laugh a bit. Was partially surprised they didn't cut him talking out and just dub over a pieced together version to make it sound like he just says "Riot is great" and skip the rest of his talking points.

Red RyuNov 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This reeks of CertainlyT so dont feel like you arent being heard, hes just ignoring everyone.

Funny, people praised Graves and Caitlyn on the PBE.

CrownsyNov 12, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcE8ruL,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2015-11-12T17:38:50.730+0000)

Funny, people praised Graves and Caitlyn on the PBE.

No one praised graves, other than to say "wow, this guy is op as fuck, but fun when your the one doing the killing."

Red RyuNov 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

No one praised graves, other than to say "wow, this guy is op as fuck, but fun when your the one doing the killing."

You kidding me?

When I read the PBE and here, people love him just like caitlyn.

air tigerNov 12, 20153 votes

IDK about PBE or Graves, but the Caitlyn update is fantastic. She REALLY gained the feeling of a sniper/hunter with her kit changes.

A++ @CertainlyT

sreggadNov 12, 20152 votes

it went "he's gonna suck he's basically melee" to "omg this is such a fun change I'm so happy about this" to "omg he's OP as fuck plz nerf"

Packun FlowerNov 12, 201514 votes

The game has become disgusting now.

Disgusting in game play, Disgusting in balance, Disgusting in champion lore, and Disgusting in company to player base relations.

I ended up uninstalling the game today, so my opinion doesn't matter. But I just can't do this anymore. this game is not fun for me. I tried really hard to be open minded about Riot's tactics and the pre season. I gave all the new items a try, all the new mysteries, and on top of that their recent reworks for champs and just overall newly released champs. They aren't good. The idea for a good concept, be it champ or item or whatever, its there. But Riot's execution of these things is just done so horribly bad it backlashes on them every single time. and honestly I just can;t do it anymore.

So i'm outtie.

Peace all.

SonicÐeHedgedawgNov 12, 20158 votes

Common complaints on the PBE server included:

Yasuo is almost completely broken now
Morellonomicon can't compete with executioner's calling on any level anymore
Assassin junglers have a really hard time with their first clear.
Junglers in general are hurting for gold and their items (especially runeglaive) are super expensive.

Didn't see much acknowledgement on any of these things, honestly. I mean, I'm sure they KNOW, but I can't see how at least Yasuo didn't get some changes before shipping.

Ariel the CruelNov 12, 20158 votes

But when they do Listen, the advice is bad. Garen Darius

CertainlyTlife

Slamurai JackNov 12, 20157 votes

You cannot judge balance on the pbe because the average pbe player is low silver at best. Everything looks OP there at one point or another because the skill disparity in every single game is enormous.

BasedJarvan420Nov 12, 201517 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcE8ruL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-12T11:26:47.650+0000)

You cannot judge balance on the pbe because the average pbe player is low silver at best. Everything looks OP there at one point or another because the skill disparity in every single game is enormous.

Well then people need to stop blaming pbe players when nonsense like this makes it to preseason then ffs. All these yasuo and crit complaints were also on the pbe boards so people need to stfu.

Slamurai JackNov 12, 20154 votes

I'm going to laugh so hard when winrates come out for this patch and nothing in particular is out of line.

Smitty ManjensenNov 12, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcE8ruL,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-11-12T11:31:55.744+0000)

I'm going to laugh so hard when winrates come out for this patch and nothing in particular is out of line.

Except Yasuo, he will skyrocket and probably get gutted.

Slamurai JackNov 12, 20154 votes

I'm honestly not convinced he's that much stronger. The extra crit and the crit healing mastery are extremely nice but the significantly lower amount of AD in the game hurts him significantly and he doesn't snowball as hard when ahead since Shiv is weaker until lvl 12 and despite the higher level of crit, his Shiv IE powerspike is significantly weaker.

Smitty ManjensenNov 12, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcE8ruL,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-12T11:47:32.049+0000)

I'm honestly not convinced he's that much stronger. The extra crit and the crit healing mastery are extremely nice but the significantly lower amount of AD in the game hurts him significantly and he doesn't snowball as hard when ahead since Shiv is weaker until lvl 12 and despite the higher level of crit, his Shiv IE powerspike is significantly weaker.

99% of people think he's borderline op now, on the other side there's you saying he is ok. The ad reduction actually didn't hurt because he can itemize now much easier, a lot easier than any other class, people are complaining about adcs getting items, meanwhile the actual truth is these items were made for yasuo, as if they just made them for him, also the general ad reduction which doesn't exist because it affects every ad oriented champ. Just admit it he got too strong with his passive, he can build static shiv and the cloak to get 100% crit chance.

Slamurai JackNov 12, 20159 votes

Half the community thought he was still OP when he had a 42% win rate in 4.18 and that he needed even more nerfs. This community doesn't know shit. And of course the general AD reduction means something. Yasuo is a champion entirely reliant on multiplicative scaling which means that if you nerf any part of the equation, he gets hurt substantially. Every point of AD is effectively worth 2.25 AD for Yasuo since he crits every hit once he has IE. -15 from IE is -34 damage per auto and Q just from that change alone. Shiv is actually weaker until lvl 12, making a Yasuo that get's early kills less snowbally. Yasuo's healing from the crit mastery, as much as people like to complain about it, does absolutely nothing for him until after the first back and doesn't even heal that much until he has IE, at which point the laning phase is usually over and 15% LS every 2 seconds is not nearly as beneficial.

I honestly don't know why I bother typing these out. They just get downvoted by a bunch of salty people who, to this day, still don't know how to play against a Yasuo, feed him early, and then come here and complain about how OP he is when he's 1v3ing them after he's already 5/0.

RetillinNov 12, 201511 votes

You do know Meddler just said "Early indications suggest Yasuo's too dominant in 5.22. " 8 hours ago....

FargoneMythNov 13, 20151 votes

Your point seems fine, even if it's just an opinion, yet people are downvoting your posts into oblivion as if you're being a troll, an asshole, or intentionally being duplicitous.... I don't get it.

Slamurai JackNov 13, 20152 votes

That's just what you get for defending unpopular champions. I get the same shit when I dare to defend Thresh, Lee, and Riven too. The voice of reason cannot hope to stand against hate boners of such magnitude.

Celeste BenalNov 12, 20152 votes

Yasuo never needed to build IE to get 100% crit chance. Its just that it also gave a bunch of other stats that he likes. 50% more crit damage and AD. He could just as well have bought anything else and got similar stats. But it would have been inefficient to do so.

The only thing that has actually changed for Yasuo is the masteries.

Smitty ManjensenNov 12, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Celeste Benal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jdcE8ruL,comment-id=0002000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-12T16:08:40.768+0000)

Yasuo never needed to build IE to get 100% crit chance. Its just that it also gave a bunch of other stats that he likes. 50% more crit damage and AD. He could just as well have bought anything else and got similar stats. But it would have been inefficient to do so.

The only thing that has actually changed for Yasuo is the masteries.

Also just watched the stream of Hashinshin and he considers yasuo op, which I would believe from a guy who is challenger, so at least take his opinion if you won't take mine.

OlafRagnarsonNov 12, 20156 votes

Notice how Riot has not been responding at all to the massive complaints the changes have generated

MatezoideNov 12, 20156 votes

The Mordekaiser Feedback thread on the PBE killed any faith i had in Riot.

Not a surprise Graves was allowed in this disgusting state given CertainlyT reworked him tbh

Rand0mH3r0XNov 12, 20155 votes

It's my understanding that Public Beta Environment testing is to look for bugs, glitches, coding errors, obvious graphical errors, and the such. PBE has nothing to do with game balancing.

DRAGOON BurstNov 12, 20154 votes

MY head fucking hurts with this preseason. It hurts so much because I don't know why they even did this. I am on the PBE server and I really hoped that they didnt do this. I really wonder if they even play and suffer their own agony.

MelledoneusNov 12, 20153 votes

I know I may get downvoted for this, but I think I figured out why Riot ignored the feedback. When they previously listened to feedback and acted on it, the juggernauts were turned into jugger-monsters that took quite a few nerfs to balance. So I guess they decided to roll with the changes and see for themselves how it would affect the game so they know where they screwed up.

Not the most effective method, but hey, rather have that than Darius happen again.

nοοbmaster69Nov 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I know I may get downvoted for this, but I think I figured out why Riot ignored the feedback. When they previously listened to feedback and acted on it, the juggernauts were turned into jugger-monsters that took quite a few nerfs to balance. So I guess they decided to roll with the changes and see for themselves how it would affect the game so they know where they screwed up.

Not the most effective method, but hey, rather have that than Darius happen again.

dont think so, i mean even if you only theorycraft you should notice that there will be sth

Earl EulrichNov 12, 20154 votes

"only theoriecraft"...about all issues with this patch had been 100%forseeable from reading the concepts alone (and have been criticised on PBE and the Boards). At this point it´s really hard to understand what´s going on with Riots develpoment team...feels like they were just rolling dice for this preseason and screwed that up pretty hard.

MelledoneusNov 12, 20153 votes

It's sometimes better to test theories before acting on them. I guess the way Riot tests theirs is by simply releasing it to live and doing a check-up on the game's health in a few weeks.

WeatheredNov 12, 20151 votes

At this point, the PBE is used to monitor bugs and VERY small tweaks. If an idea is put onto the PBE, 90% its going through. Riot doesnt have time to redo entire ideas.

OldDirtayNov 12, 20153 votes

{quoted}

At this point, the PBE is used to monitor bugs and VERY small tweaks. If an idea is put onto the PBE, 90% its going through. Riot doesnt have time to redo entire ideas.

they would have time if these dumb ideas didnt make it to the creation phase, not only that but they may not have time to redo this stuff but im 100% certain they have plenty of time to revert it

even if its a bad idea, they did work and they dont want to come to grips that it might be bad and they did this for nothing so they will just keep it......which is honestly sad to say the least,down right retardation if you ask me