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Riot can we just get a complete rework to some On-Hit items?

BLIGHTBRINGER··4 votes·4,422 views

##Items I am talking about

item 3085 item 3124 item 3115 item 3091

##The overall main issues

  • All On-Hit items offer the same thing, and there's limited to none diversity options (Bonus Magic Damage On-Hit).

  • Most On-Hit champions usually have a specific type of damage or benefit more from one specific type of damage, either Physical (Kalista, Ashe) or Magical (Teemo, Kog'Maw) but in some cases some have a bit of both (Varus and now Kai'Sa). And itemization for some of these champions is quite bad is they want to build On-Hit items, due to all of them offering just bonus Magic Damage or favoring it more.

  • Since none of the On-Hit items offer any proper bonus Physical Damage On-Hit (besides Runaan's Hurricane, which isn't fully an On-Hit item since it's more Crit based now) and most stats offer more Ability Power than Attack Damage, this will make the Armor Penetration on the new Guinsoo's Rageblade somewhat pointless. While the direction of Hybrid Penetration is quite interesting, I feel like if that's what Riot wants to go with, there needs to be a rework in the bonuses you get from On-Hit items because the On-Hit playstyle always proved to be somewhat weak on most champions when in comparison of Critical Strike which has been always dominant.

##On-Hit Item Issues

https://i.imgur.com/xGvDcrE.png

item 3085 Runaan's Hurricane: This item started off as an On-Hit item, that later got reworked into a Critical Strike item because there was a low amount to almost none who apparently purchased this item's previous iteration.

  • The only item that offers the bonus Physical Damage On-Hit, and the Passive bolt damage scales with 40% of your AD making the item synergy with other On-Hit items somewhat bad, causing it only to be used as a way to apply extra Stacks from champion abilities (Varus W, Kai'Sa Passive, Kalista E, Ashe Passive).

item 3124 Guinsoo's Rageblade: This item started as a Mixed Damage item, with elements of Tiamat attached to it. Then it got reworked into an On-Hit item, and ever since it has been like a core element (similar to IE with Crit) to all On-Hit builds. The issues were/are:

  • This item is a balance tragedy
  • There's no real clear direction or purpose that this item is suppose to have (due to how strong the Phantom Hit effect is on it's own)
  • It's been reworked too many times and each rework has proved to be unsuccessful

item 3115 Nashor's Tooth: More of an On-Hit item for Magic Damage based champions, but...

  • For others this item is not so great due to the Passive needing a lot of AP to be effective.
  • The general stats of this item aren't great (Cooldown Reduction: Not something that some champions make use of effectively).
  • The item on it's own feels useless on most champions.

item 3091 Wit's End: This is one of the only On-Hit items that I think is quite okay.

  • It has a clear purpose; steal Magic Resistance to increase your bonus Magic Damage from basic attacks.

##Suggestions

item 3085 Runaan's Hurricane

  • Revert the item, and work on how the Passive works and what the Bolt damage scales with.

item 3115 Nashor's Tooth

  • Baron Nashor's damage is actually Physical not Magical, meaning that this item should be focused on the Physical Damage aspect, but maybe having the Passive Damage be more like this [UNIQUE: +X Bonus Magic Damage On-Hit (+30% AD) ] or even making it scale with Attack Speed somehow.

##What do you all think?

20 Comments

Fear the Kayn2 votes

Any change of Nashor’s Tooth would require quite significant compensation buffs for Azir. But other than that yea a lot of on hit items need mini reworks.

BLIGHTBRINGER2 votes

He would not be the only one...

Kayle (assuming they still keep her Basic Attack playstyle during VGU) Teemo Diana

boricCentaur12 votes

So many people think wit's end sucks so im happy so see somone who thinks it does not. My problem is that Riot keeps forcing markman to build crit when they would add items or changes the kit around so they can build on hit.

Kelg2 votes

Why would you turn nashors into an ad item?? APs need more items not ADs. If nashors had ramping damage instead of upfront high AP and some HP on it, more people would build it because then it would fill a specific niche for plenty of sustained damage AP champs.

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

Wouldn't it be easier to just give a new item for those AP sustained damage champions?

Kelg1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vhG9x9Fi,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-13T09:41:21.255+0000)

Wouldn't it be easier to just give a new item for those AP sustained damage champions?

maybe but it still makes no sense to turn nashors into an AD item. The whole point of it is for auto attacking ap champs to get more from their autos Kayle Teemo Mordekaiser Diana Kennen

ankoanko192 votes

Can someone tell me why Riot reworked rageblade in 6.9 in the first place? The only thing I find is " cuz tristana abused it" which they could easily fix by making the item melee only.

Warlord Rhinark3 votes

{quoted}

Can someone tell me why Riot reworked rageblade in 6.9 in the first place? The only thing I find is " cuz tristana abused it" which they could easily fix by making the item melee only.

Making the item melee only creates more problems, as now Kayle Varus Teemo wouldn't be able to build it anymore.

But don't worry, MasterYi still can.

4Head

ankoanko191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vhG9x9Fi,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-11-13T11:19:13.540+0000)

Making the item melee only creates more problems, as now Kayle Varus Teemo wouldn't be able to build it anymore.

But don't worry, MasterYi still can.

4Head

Are we on the same page? I'm talking about pre 6.9 Rageblade, when it gave you a tiamat effect.

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

{quoted}

Are we on the same page? I'm talking about pre 6.9 Rageblade, when it gave you a tiamat effect.

No, I don't think we were on the same page.

As far as I know, Guinsoo's was reworked because Devourer got removed from the game.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

Old runaan’s was awesome and all but there were two issues:

You built an item that basically only had attack speed, and it wasn’t cheap. And on hit champions were pretty bad in that day and age. Kayle was built purely ap, teemo was a troll pick, and the only person who would consider runaan’s was kog’maw, but he was too busy building crit too.

And so crit on runaans became a good way to get people to buy runaan’s. Now with the onset of onhit champions, it doesn’t seem so good.

Warlord Rhinark2 votes

Reverting Runaan's sounds like a good idea, as Jinx is the only crit ADC that actually builds it.

Making Nashor's Tooth scale with AD, however, does not sound like the best of ideas.

People that buy Nashor's Tooth usually don't stock up on AD.

The reason why Baron Nashor deals Physical Damage is because ALL Basic Attacks deal Physical Damage, even those that are obviously magical in nature.

Alzon1 votes

Gromp tho

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

{quoted}

Gromp tho

The almighty god, Gromp, is beyond mere mortal Basic Attacks.

Dannar Hetoshi2 votes

Titanic Hydra has Physical Damage on-hit that scales on HP. People seem to forget this

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

I haven't forgotten, but most On-Hit champions happen to be Ranged...

Azir KogMaw Ashe Kaisa Kalista Teemo

There's little of Melee On-Hit champions

MasterYi Jax

Doge20201 votes

Shyvana gets titanic and sometimes rageblade (well atleast I do when I play her top)

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

I agree on reverting the hurricane and rageblade, but I'd say the other two you listed are fine as is, niche but strong when combined.

Stre3tJimmy1 votes

First of all, I think you forget that item 3153 has a physical damage on-hit and is really great for high health targets as well as in general for its stats and active.

As far as item 3085 is concerned, I think the item now is better than it used to be. Since the on-hit scales with 40%AD it might be a bit more niche (works better for ad stacking) but it works good for its intended crowd (I don't know if you've seen Jhin late game with it but it's both fun and strong in some cases). Also, you can't take away how good it is for applying multiple on hits (Varus and Kaisa for example and let's not forget Jinx ).

I generally don't think the on-hit items are in such a bad spot that they need an update as much as they're not meta right now for other reasons. And even with that being said, most solo queue games can be crushed with on hit builds with these items and some even see pro play from time to time.

Maybe we need more on-hit items to fit more situations (like penetration but we have item 3091 for mr and item 3071 for armor so even that is debatable), but I don't think we need to change the ones we have. They all have their place and purpose and I think they fulfill them really well.

PringleOfDestiny1 votes

Baron Nashor's damage is actually Physical not Magical, meaning that this item should be focused on the Physical Damage aspect, but maybe having the Passive Damage be more like this [UNIQUE: +X Bonus Magic Damage On-Hit (+30% AD) ] or even making it scale with Attack Speed somehow.

We had the ad version zephyr but they removed it cause no one bought it

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